Fall Roster Overanalysis 2011 Comment Count

Brian August 9th, 2011 at 4:24 PM

It's a useless tradition around here to look at the roster and see who's grown to massive size and who is lean destructive sinew because All Weight Changes Are Positive.

Presenting weight changes that are all positive. I bolded things I find interesting:

QUARTERBACK
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
Denard Robinson 185 193 195 8 2
Devin Gardner N/A 210 205 N/A -5
RUNNING BACK
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
John McColgan 227 231 240 4 9
Fitzgerald Toussaint 185 200 195 15 -5
Michael Cox 208 211 214 3 3
Michael Shaw 178 187 195 9 8
Vincent Smith 168 180 172 12 -8
Stephen Hopkins N/A 230 228 N/A -2
WIDE RECEIVER
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
Junior Hemingway 220 225 222 5 -3
Darryl Stonum 196 195 195 -1 0
Je'Ron Stokes 181 193 193 12 0
Jeremy Gallon 165 180 185 15 5
Kelvin Grady 168 176 177 8 1
Martavious Odoms 172 175 173 3 -2
Roy Roundtree 170 176 177 6 1
Terrence Robinson 171 175 177 4 2
Jerald Robinson N/A 199 206 N/A 7
Drew Dileo N/A 172 172 N/A 0
TIGHT END
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
Kevin Koger 249 255 258 6 3
Ricardo Miller N/A 217 234 N/A 17
Brandon Moore 243 250 255 7 5
OFFENSIVE LINE
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
Mark Huyge 288 306 302 18 -4
Michael Schofield 268 293 299 25 6
Ricky Barnum 275 286 292 11 6
Rocko Khoury 283 295 287 12 -8
Taylor Lewan 268 294 302 26 8
David Molk 275 285 286 10 1
Elliott Mealer 299 313 310 14 -3
Patrick Omameh 276 299 299 23 0
DEFENSIVE LINE
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
Mike Martin 292 299 304 7 5
Quinton Washington 325 315 302 -10 -13
William Campbell 318 333 322 15 -11
Kenny Wilkins N/A 270 280 N/A 10
Craig Roh 238 251 269 13 18
Will Heininger 261 267 295 6 28
Ryan Van Bergen 271 283 288 12 5
Jibreel Black N/A 265 260 N/A -5
Richard Ash N/A 320 301 N/A -19
LINEBACKER
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
Brandon Herron 220 220 221 0 1
Isaiah Bell 220 245 250 25 5
J.B. Fitzgerald 232 244 241 12 -3
Kenny Demens 236 250 248 14 -2
Cameron Gordon 208 207 222 -1 15
Mike Jones 203 208 224 5 16
Jake Ryan N/A 225 230 N/A 5
CORNERBACK
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
J.T. Floyd 183 183 185 0 2
Troy Woolfolk 193 195 191 2 -4
Courtney Avery N/A 174 173 N/A -1
Terrance Talbott N/A 179 178 N/A -1
SAFETY
Player 2009 2010 2011 09 to 10 10 to 11
Brandin Hawthorne 198 203 214 5 11
Floyd Simmons 185 200 194 15 -6
Jordan Kovacs 194 195 197 1 2
Josh Furman N/A 208 208 N/A 0
Carvin Johnson N/A 198 200 N/A 2
Marvin Robinson N/A 203 200 N/A -3
Thomas Gordon 205 205 208 0 3

Items!

  • Where is the addition of beef? I highlighted the starting offensive line above. They gained a total of 11 pounds between them, or one pound more than David Molk did last year, when he was the least inflated OL on the team. If Michigan's running power with these guys it might not go so well.
  • Where is the addition of beef: answer. It's in the outside-linebackery parts of the defense. Craig Roh's added 18 additional pounds; now up 31 from his arrival at Michigan he is legitimately DL sized. The projected starters at SLB and WLB both put on around 15 pound.
  • The subtraction of beef. Is where you'd expect it: the tubby tubs on the interior of the DL. Will Campbell, Quinton Washington, and Richard Ash are all relatively svelte now.
  • Maybe Wilkins is eventually plausible. I was shocked to see Wilkins came in at 270 and is now 280. He got blown up in the Spring Game but in a couple years he could be a reasonable option at three-tech.
  • All weight gain is good! Michael Shaw is eight pounds heavier and better able to take the pounding of the Big Ten.
  • All weight loss is good! Vincent Smith lost eight pounds and will return to the jackrabbit ways he flashed as a freshman.
  • BEEFCAKE. I hope Ricardo Miller loves protein shakes, because he's added 17 pounds and is still ridiculously small at tight end.

Notable freshmen:

  • Tony Posada and Chris Bryant. Good lord: both enter at essentially 340. They should form a tag team themed around natural disasters. Neither can be in any shape to play right now and unless Posada sheds a ton of weight he is a guard all the way at 6'4". Also monstrous: walk-on Gary Yerden at 6'5", 333.
  • Antonio Poole. With Kellen Jones gone he's got a major opportunity to play right away and at 212 he's not much slimmer than Jones. Big difference between that and the 195 he was reputed to be.
  • Greg Brown. While the rest of the freshman defensive backs enter at a willowy 176 or less Brown is packing 192. Good or bad… eh, probably not so good. But he did play well in spring.
  • Chris Rock. Enters at 267. Will be a three-tech by WMU.
  • Chris Barnett. Enters at 278. Redshirt coming with the knee and all; will be interesting to see if that goes down next year.
  • Thomas Rawls. 5'10", 219 is pretty compact. Hayes is listed at the same height and a cornerback-like 176.

Weight gains or losses are the key to domination. We has them. Get out of our ways.

Comments

MartinHD

August 9th, 2011 at 4:55 PM ^

Comparing our current roster with our roster in 2006

In 2006, the Defensive Line (W. Johnson, A. Branch, L. Woodley, J. Van Alstyne, T. Taylor, T. Jamison and R. Biggs) averaged 284.86 lbs. 

In 2011, the D-line (Martin, Campbell, Roh, Van Bergen, Washington, Ash, Black and Heininger) averages 292.63 lbs.

In 2006, our LB's (Burgess, Graham, Crable, Thompson and Harris) averaged 233.8 lbs.

In 2011, our LB's (Gordon, Demens, Jones, Fitzgerald, Ryan, Bell & Evans) average 236 lbs.

In 2006, our DB's (Hall, Trent, Adams, Barringer and Englemon) averaged 200.4 lbs.

In 2011, our DB's (Floyd, Woolfolk, Johnson, Furman, Gordan and Kovacs) average slightly less at 198.17 lbs. 

Also, our Tight Ends in 2006 were Tyler Ecker at 246 and Mike Massey at 234.

This year, we have Koger at 258, Moore at 255, Watson at 255 and Miller at 234.  Interesting to see that Miller is already as big as Massey was. 

JeepinBen

August 9th, 2011 at 5:54 PM ^

All good, interesting stuff. I'd be interested to see the same #s on offense and with last years team. I'm too busy to do the leg work, but thanks for doing this leg work here. It helps.

Also, Re: Massey, he was definitely bigger than 234 by the time he left Michigan. I played in a pick up game and had to guard him, and he was at least 250. I'm also 5'11'', white, Jewish, and may have been 195# at the time. They had a lineman and another tight end who our 2 biggest players guarded. the game did not go well. 

MGoCombs

August 10th, 2011 at 9:14 AM ^

Nice find. I would be interested to see this same comparison with OL in particular, during a year where we had a good Lloyd-ball offense (not that I am convinced Hoke is going to run that anyway). I would also be interested to see how this stacks up to other teams. I know it is only five years, but the trend has been "bigger, bigger, stronger, bigger" over the past decade. I think we need to compare how our weight growth (or stabilization) compares to how other teams have grown during that period. These things are really only significant in context. It could be a good diary for someone with more ambition than say, me.

philibuster

August 9th, 2011 at 4:57 PM ^

Is Hoke just appeasing the fan base when he says "we're going to run power"? It seems that if you're going to run power, then you ought to have some big OL, so tell them to beefcake like they did to the DL.

Erik_in_Dayton

August 9th, 2011 at 5:15 PM ^

I think that Hoke sees talking being a power running team as espousing an attitude toward the game more than espousing a tactic.  SDSU was hardly a carbon copy of Wisconsin last year...I also believe that I can know what Hoke is thinking b/c I live right near where he grew up, Kettering, Ohio.  You might say that that doesn't make sense.  To that I would respond that you obviously aren't from Kettering. 

All-American

August 9th, 2011 at 5:02 PM ^

This post reminds me of those commercial where the kid is throwing the ball to himself and  strikes out. He decides he's not the best hitter but best pitcher in the world!

Because Will Campbell lost weight, he's going to be faster, and because the rest of our DL gained weight, they'll be stronger.

C what I did there?

bronxblue

August 9th, 2011 at 5:01 PM ^

Hopefully Campbell's weight loss doesn't hurt any strength gains he's made; as it is, the guy was pushed around the past couple of years.  I know his problem has always been technique and pad level, but at this point he needs to show something.

All other weight gains and losses don't surprise me, and I expect Denard's 2 lb gain to be restricted to the additional dilithium implants in his calves.

Kramer

August 9th, 2011 at 5:18 PM ^

Does anyone think there's a chance past weights were inflated for certain positions, i.e linemen?  Often heights are increased in basketball on official rosters, so might the same have been going on (or still for all I know) with weights in football?  Maybe the linemen's weights were all bumped up 5 or 10 lbs under RR and that explains why there are no real gains from '10 to '11.  Or do they release new weights every spring as well, so we'd have a baseline under Hoke?

yoopergoblue

August 9th, 2011 at 6:14 PM ^

Cosmo, I agree with with that statement.  I think there may have been some inflation in the O-line weights last season.  A big one that sticks out to me is Lewan. I have a hard time beleiving he was 294 last year.  

TrppWlbrnID

August 9th, 2011 at 5:24 PM ^

But jibreel down 5? At least will h has gained enough bulk to get some pt as a depth guy. From year 1 to year 2 rvb gained a ton of weight, why could black not do the same? The play the same position, no?

MartinHD

August 9th, 2011 at 5:32 PM ^

I think Jibreel is okay.  Brandon Graham was listed at 6' 2", 263 lbs. as a Senior.  J.Black at 6' 2", 260 is nearly identical.  Plus, he is wearing Graham's number.  Now, if he could just play like Brandon, we'd be in good shape.  

TTUwolverine

August 9th, 2011 at 5:51 PM ^

I think it was around August right before the season started.  While I have no real inside info, if that injury has kept him from working out I could see this being a big reason why he ballooned.  My guess is that it isn't particularly good weight. 

Greg McMurtry

August 9th, 2011 at 5:33 PM ^

at higher weights.  A bigger Roh at the DE spot, with a bigger Cam at Sam is so much better than Gerg's D.  So who are the starting LBs?  

WLB: Evans

MLB: Demens

SLB: Cam

Or does Jake Ryan get some PT in there?

TTUwolverine

August 9th, 2011 at 6:17 PM ^

for the SAM spot.  I'm no coach, but typically the SAM needs to be strong enough to shed blocks from pulling lineman and also athletic enough to cover the tight end.  Cam has the speed for coverage, but 222 is still a little small to be shedding blocks from a big pulling guard.  Still, 222 is much better than 208 though, and we aren't going to magically generate a 6'4" 245 lb SAM with 4.5 speed anytime soon. 

michgoblue

August 9th, 2011 at 5:47 PM ^

1.  O-Line

I don't see the issue with running power with this O-line.  Aside from Molk (who is a damn strong 286), the rest of our line is over 290, with two of them over 300 (albeit barely).  That has to put us at heavier than the average, and within the B10, probably within the top half.

2.  Running backs

I know that Brian was kidding with the "all weight gains and losses are good" thing, but I actually think that for our RBs, this is true.  Why?  V. Smith smowed down last year.  Not sure how much of that was related to him going from 168 to 180, but the 168 pound V. Smith that we saw in 2009 look a lot more elusive.  The 180 pound version was still to small to run over anyone, but lacked the speed to avoid being taken down in the backfiend.  Happy to see him down to 172.  Good weight loss.

On the other hand, Mike Shaw did need to gain some weight, as (a) he has been injured frequently, and (b) he has shown the ability to run north to south and actually knock over tacklers.  The extra 8 pounds will only help him there.

3.  D-Line and LB

Well, nobody can say that we are undersized at these positions.  Out D-line is manball sized, even Roh.  And the LB's aren't too small themselves.

 

See, all weight gain / loss is good.

Bodogblog

August 9th, 2011 at 6:16 PM ^

pre-ACL injury.  I doubt it had much to do with weight.

Still, the second year back from ACL injuries is supposed to be when you really feel "back", FWIW.  Would love to see it... still remember that sick move he made in the 2009 OSU game.

WolvinLA2

August 9th, 2011 at 6:27 PM ^

I think it's a little of column A and a little of column B:  I think both the additional weight and the ACL slowed him down, although reports were that the added weight was gained while he was out rehabbing his knee.  At weight-ins last year he was 180 because he hadn't been running much, but I bet he played most of last season closer to where he is now. 

Either way, a quicker, shiftier VSmith is likely this fall.

WolvinLA2

August 9th, 2011 at 6:19 PM ^

I also don't have any problem with our OL size.  Molk is Molk, and our non-center starters average 299lbs.  That's not an enormous OL, but it's far from undersized.  Add bigger than average TEs, a fullback and a couple 220lb RBs, and that's MANBALL. 

blue note

August 10th, 2011 at 2:04 AM ^

Just did a quick look through at the B10 depth charts - this line will be one of the lighter ones in the B10. According to the new weights, the line will average 296

Compared to Northwestern - a spread team -

310-305-295-300-300 (avg 302)

and Purdue, another spread team

301-300-358-315-300 (avvg 314.8)

Coincidentelly, the smallest line - by far- will be Iowa. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

 

 

 

 

 

PurpleStuff

August 9th, 2011 at 6:39 PM ^

Nice to see Richard Ash slimming back down.  Since these guys are going to be such important players down the road when Martin and Campbell graduate, I was wondering where exactly they are playing right now.  This site's depth chart by class has Washington behind Will at the 3 tech and Ash at nose.  That seems a little odd to me since Washington looks to be more of the immovable object type while Ash was a smaller, more athletic guy coming out of high school.  Also seems fishy that Ash would almost certainly be the default starter at NT next year.

My hope is that Washington and Ash both see time in the rotation this year, but with Washington backing up Martin and Ash behind Campbell.  If both guys pan out, that could set up a nice succession plan with Washington playing next to Campbell in 2012 and Ash sliding in next to Washington a year later (with Pipkins hopefully waiting in the wings to take Q's spot and Wormley or some other growing DE to replace Ash).

Blue boy johnson

August 9th, 2011 at 6:39 PM ^

Manball is a mindset not a set weight. with the proper toughness you can average 230 across the O-Line and still pulverize the opposition.

I find it insightful that coaches are actually watching Mike Martin  on every play in practice, last year D was there only to help set tempo for the O. No time for coaching. Poor Gerg, how could he teach fundamentals without time to even talk to the D.

Mr. Yost

August 9th, 2011 at 6:54 PM ^

This is two different staffs! And trust me, they were NOT looking at the same scale.

Some of the ridiculous weight gains/losses are simply due to over inflated numbers. Either by the last staff or the present.

 

Vince Smith at 180? mmmm DOUBT IT! I give that Five Fakes out of Five.

Khory at 295? mmm HECK NO. This staff has been trying to beef up the whole line. Why would he be losing weight? Obviously because he never weighed 295 to begin with.

Huyge, Mealer, Black...same thing.

 

 

Knappster

August 9th, 2011 at 7:58 PM ^

Rumor has it that Lawrence Thomas (MSU) came into camp weighing 280 and may move to the DL.  Not sure if that's true, but damnnnn mannnnn 280?!  

M-Wolverine

August 9th, 2011 at 9:05 PM ^

But it was nice to see Toussaint lose some weight. He looked big and slow when HR was actually healthy enough to get on the field (still hoping maybe he can have one of those "does nothing but has a great senior year" deals before he's done here).
<br>
<br>And what are we doing differently to get the DTs to finally shed the weight? Wellman's rep was beefing up guys, but he seems to be thinning them out when necessary too.

M-Wolverine

August 10th, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^

Because of the injury bugs too.  It was just a good sign to me that he might be healthy enough to get back into playing shape.  It's probably a pipedream at this point, but I still hold out some hope that he can contribute down the line.

HoldTheRope

August 9th, 2011 at 9:58 PM ^

In all seriousness, most of that looks good on paper...looking forward to seeing those gains/losses translate to better athleticism on the field. The only minor quibble I might make is with respect to Miller being "ridiculously small"...given the role he's ostensibly going to fill going forward as an H-back sort, he'll definitely do some blocking but not exclusively so (e.g., Webb). It's disappointing that he didn't work out at wideout but now he'll just be slightly above average TE, athleticism-wise. As for his blocking, he is a little small still, but 234 seems like it's right in the ballpark of your average fullback, at worst just a shade undersized.