Exit Kaleb Ringer

Submitted by Brian on May 6th, 2013 at 3:34 PM

14817[1]As caught by—prepare yourselves for a username—MGoUser "Every Roh Has Its Thorn," Redshirt freshman-to-be Kaleb Ringer has put an "FSU" in his twitter handle and adorned his page with that bulldog hockey fans know and no one else does. Usually this means the guy in question has left the team, though in this case Ringer does still have some Michigan stuff around.

The handle change from "Ring_RingUM" to "Ring_RingFSU" is pretty indicative, though. Further supporting data: his brother is at Ferris and he tweeted "big brah I'm on my way" recently. That could mean anything, sure. This not so much:


I put my internet sleuth hat on. I declare he's outie, as the kids said like ten years ago. I have taken the hat off. I feel bereft.

Ringer sat out last year with an undisclosed injury that I've heard was a knee issue. If that robbed him of some of his athleticism he may have chosen to keep playing instead of taking a medical scholarship. Whichever it was, I'd heard that there was a possibility he wouldn't make it to year two a while ago.

The on-field impact should mainly be felt on special teams. Ringer wasn't going to be on the two deep at ILB with Morgan, Bolden, Ross, and Jenkins-Stone ahead of him and probably wouldn't have gotten many snaps this year.

This does bring Michigan down to 85 even if they bring back suspended punter Will Hagerup. Hagerup recently said something on Facebook that suggested he'd learned he would be reinstated; it wouldn't surprise me if the two events were related. IE: Hagerup got booted down to walk-on and now has to get in line. Just speculation, that.

Michigan currently has 15 scholarships for their next recruiting class, and with normal rates of attrition should get to 18-20. Ringer is the first member of the 2012 class to leave; it stands at 24. Here's Ringer's recruiting post if you'd like to reminisce.

UPDATE: Official.



May 6th, 2013 at 8:14 PM ^

I don't think it does at all.  You get to have 85 guys on scholarship on your football team.  Once you get medicaled, you're done as a football player.  

Personally, I have no moral qualms with how Alabama uses the medical hardship waiver.  Now, the coach of a potential recruit might have an issue with it, so from a PR standpoint it's beneficial not to over use it, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it ethically.  This is because I feel the free education is the part you're entitled to as a recruit, not the spot on the team.  I don't have a moral issue with a coach saying "Sorry kid, all you have is this free education."  

What I have a problem with is cutting players, or telling players after Signing Day that they have a spot when they don't.  It's the "Sorry kid, we don't have a spot for you therefore we can't pay for you to be here so get out or pay your own way."  That's not OK.  


May 6th, 2013 at 7:58 PM ^

You probably shouldn't have recruited him in the first place. That's on the coaches, not the kid. You can not play him because others are better, but the player's job is to give it his all, do well in class, and not get into trouble. If he does that he's lived up to his end of the bargain. If he doesn't, there are other avenues for him to be removed from the team.

Teams are ever changing. A guy who might be good enough to be a starter one year might never see the field the next because you recruited someone better at his position. That's timing and luck of the draw. (Or the reverse). In your example of academic scholarships you'd be culling the bottom 10% even if they were meeting minimum expectations just so you could get the next 4.0 student to take the scholly.

Not counting what it would do for a team's morale in a non-professional environment....


May 6th, 2013 at 9:30 PM ^

You said it better than I could have.  It gives coaches a lot more leeway to recruit guys that might be academic or criminal risks as well.  Trust your scouting, and if you end up with a guy who wasn't as good as you thought, tough cookies.  That's the risk in amateur sports.  Now, if you want to give these kids a salary, the whole ballgame changes. 


May 6th, 2013 at 7:45 PM ^

but on the flip side, couldn't you say the exposure of actually playing somewhere is still better than being effectively a practice squad guy and be almost guaranteed to not get drafted. In that context, he would still get the Michigan degree, and not much else, so it's just his decision of what gets him closer to his goal - presumably playing in the NFL.


May 7th, 2013 at 1:14 PM ^

All I'm saying is that the decision should be with the player, not the coaches.  I don't think there is anything wrong with saying "Hey, kid.  We just don't think you've got the ability to ever play meaningful snaps here.  You're welcome to stay on the team for the full four years, but if you want playing time your best option might be to transfer." 


May 6th, 2013 at 4:54 PM ^

Each school has a medical team that determines if a player is capable of playing in their view.  Our medical team has from day one been leaning in the direction that this is a career ender.  

For all we know Hoke has strongly been pressuring Ringer to take the medical hardship and Michigan scholarship since the first report, however Ringer has shopped around and found a school that does not see the injury as career ending because:

  1. Their doctors just plain feel otherwise.
  2. Their doctors feel that with the lower level of competition at their level, Ringer is not at risk to the same degree he'd be at Michigan.
  3. Their doctors are amoral and will rubber stamp anyone/the coach is deperate to get a BCS level guy on the roster of Ferris Status.

Secondly my post assumes that injury recovery was the issue.  It could very well have been that Hoke took Kaleb aside and said "Look you're expected to get X% of your mobility back.  I'll honor the 4 years here, but at X% you're career scout team and any promises I made to you about playing time are void due to the injury."  Kaleb wants to play, so he transferred.  This could have all been decided back in December or even earlier and just announced due to the fact the Spring Term just ended.

When we're trucking people to Ferris by the busload or issuing an oddly high number of medical redshirts, but you can't be screaming redflag over one guy dropping a level of competitive football after an injury that was considered near career ending within weeks of its occurrence.  



May 6th, 2013 at 5:05 PM ^

Many of those things may very well be true, and are probably likely.  But, it is a valid topic to at least address if we as a fanbase are going to ride upon the high horse of oversigning immorality.  My tone was not intended to be accusatory, but rather to foster discussion about why this is different as opposed to just ignoring it. 


May 6th, 2013 at 5:11 PM ^

I still fail to see how you foster any kind of meaningful discussion with just one data point where we might not even have been over 85 depending on what was known internally.  There is no way to do it without speculation which just gets ugly (see also my speculation on FSU's medical staff being immoral which is of course pulled directly from my rectum).  You need meaningful data which means multiple years of oversigning have to happen first.  


May 6th, 2013 at 5:37 PM ^

While you are correct that I did only have one data point, I also did not try to make any sweeping accusations of widespread oversigning with this data point either.  I am a random dude on the internet, and therefore I do not have any insider information pertaining to the situation that would suggest wrongdoing.  But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be discussed, even if it ends up simply being an exercise in reaffirming that there is nothing to see here.  At the very least, the arguments below provide a handy list of reasons why this is a legitimate situation for those who may have cocked a suspicious eyebrow at this story.  I would argue that this is meaningful discussion.  And for the record, I am with you and the others that this situation is 99.9% likely to be legitimate. 


May 6th, 2013 at 4:28 PM ^

What is the difference between what just happened, and oversigning?  Clearly the Michigan roster had one too many scholarship players, and as such Michigan was obligated to shed one scholarship before summer practices.  At face value, that fits the definition of oversigning, although obviously not to the extreme that other schools (ahemSECahem) take it to.  Clearly, we don't know many details about the situation, and it's entirely possible that coaches and Ringer both knew about this pending transfer long ago... and it very well could be mutual.  Still, I just... feel a little dirty about it.  Thoughts?      


May 6th, 2013 at 4:44 PM ^

Because it sounds like you are assuming that he was forced out, which none of us have a clue of.  No one on this board even %100 knows he's even transferring yet.  But IF he is, it could just as easily be;

1. He didn't think he would get playing time coming off an injury and being behind so many guys who played this year.

2. He wanted to be closer to/play with his brother

3. UM was not working out for him for some non-football reason.

Until Hoke shows some sign of being "That guy" that would usher a player out the door, I'm more inclined to believe everything's legit here.


May 6th, 2013 at 4:44 PM ^

In this case because Ringer was known as being unlikely to return even prior to this class being signed. There were rumors within weeks of Ringer's injury that this was career ending at the BCS level.  Moving beyond that, Hagerup's scholarship had also been pulled and Poole is still in limbo with his injury last I heard.

Generally it is generally considered legitimate to be +2 going into the summer as natural attrition happens/fifth years may still be up in the air/etc.  Going in to the summer right at 85 just means you'll be handing out scholarships to walkons in a few months.  Everyone loses people in camp.  

When you consistently trend above mark, that is when you considered guilty of oversigning.  Peaking at no more than 87 right before heavy attrition peroids has never been considered problematic oversigning.

Another example of this would in 2011, tOSU looked to be at 87 scholarships on NSD.  However they knew they two of their players were transferring (but had not publically said it as they were looking for landing spots) and a third might not be returning, so internally they knew the real number was 84 but everyone was freaking out because 87 > 85.

The fact this transfer drops on Monday, right after Michigan finalized the winter term suggests it was set up in advance and was preplanned.  Ringer's likely been considering options for awhile and the coaches knew it.


May 6th, 2013 at 5:02 PM ^

There is nothing inherently wrong with oversigning.  Many coaches sign more players than they have room for in February with the expectation/knowledge that their will be normal attrition.  It becomes a problem when coaches like Nick Saban significantly oversign and then are forced to get rid of kids who had no warning that they would not have a spot on the fall roster, or when assholes like Les Miles tell kids they don't have a spot after moving into their dorms.  Unless you have any evidence to suggest that is occuring here, I'm not sure why you would feel dirty at all, especially considering the fact that we have no idea what the circumstances are in this situation.

EDIT:  Beaten by two posters.  Damn I am moving slowly today. What a POS.


May 6th, 2013 at 5:18 PM ^

And, as mentioned above in response to CRex, the primary purpose of this post was to foster a discussion about oversigning in general.  It is no secret that Brian is a very vocal in his opposition to oversigning, as is the rest of the fanbase.  As such, I think it's important to discuss situations like this one, and to make a clear distinction between what happened here versus the rampant oversigning that goes on in the SEC.   


May 6th, 2013 at 5:55 PM ^

One minor correction: a team doesn't have to get down to 85 scholarship players until fall camp not "summer practice" as you mentioned. So UM stll had a long way to go (over 3 months) until they needed to get to 85.

This is obviously hearsay, but I had heard several months ago that two of the young LB's who were injured last year were both likely to end up being placed on medical scholarships. Ringer was one of those two; so, yes, it has been known for some time that Ringer was not likely to end up on the Fall 2013 roster.


May 6th, 2013 at 7:30 PM ^

This debate is ridiculous.  We were at 86 scholarships only if you count a suspended kicker who may be back and a 5th year that may not be renewed.  By the time we get to summer practice, we will probably be at 83 or less with regular attrition.  There was absolutely no reason for Ringer to be encourage to leave the team since there is/will be plenty of space.

Also, I thought Ringer played almost as well in the spring game as Bolden and Jenkins-stone.  There is no gaurantee that he would stay at the bottom of the depth chart for the next three years.

Mr Miggle

May 6th, 2013 at 11:24 PM ^

The whole idea that the coaches needed to push Ringer out because they oversigned is very irritating. At the very least, they only need to not offer Mike Jones a fifth year. Does anyone really think they are pushing Ringer out so they can keep Jones around?  


May 6th, 2013 at 5:14 PM ^

The term is actually Audi, as in Audi 5000. Or, one could simply say "I'm 5000 ", which means, I'm out... Not outie. Rapper Too $hort also used a version where he rapped "I'm Audi 5 to my doghouse", which meant "I'm going home". I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.


May 6th, 2013 at 9:07 PM ^

for everyone if this was really just a "this isn't working for me" decision, but in theory, I would have no problem with the coaches telling a player honestly where they were on the depth chart or whatever, and then letting that player make the decision to go somewhere to get more playing time, or giving them the option to stop playing football and get medicaled. If someone is getting forced out, that's obviously a problem, but this doesn't seem like that.


May 6th, 2013 at 9:35 PM ^

Kind of always felt this would happen. Had high hopes and then he was injured and never really was spoken about since he came in. Still, was one of the new staff's first real steals in Ohio based on where others thought he'd go. Really thought he'd be a thumper MLB for us.

Not to sound sour grapes (as I have none regarding this or KR) but the stuff he'd write on Twitter that I'd hear about concerned me. Never had too many good words to say about AA/UM and always talked about "getting that money" or how he was "doing work for this money" etc. Now, I know some kids these days just say shit like that but it just rubbed me wrong. Yet, nothing to wish departure for.

Best of luck to him and having done nothing wrong (that I know of) he chose Michigan so will always be a Michigan guy to me. Unlike a certain member of a certain family with ties to Michigan who couldn't let his ears be ruined by curse words during football practice. haha.

Mr. Yost

May 6th, 2013 at 10:50 PM ^

I never saw Ringer playing here.

For a kid to enroll early and then sit (that isn't a QB, OL, etc.) is tough. VERY tough. You've been in the program and in school, then you see all your fellow freshman come in and pass you.

I didn't see Ringer ever getting it going at Michigan, just like I never saw Greg Brown ever playing for a similar reason.

I know it's easy to say now, but both Ringer and Brown had some success and practice buzz...but when you've got to compete with upperclassmen, you get passed by true freshman, it's hard to sit for a year and a half.

In a way it's like a REALLY long redshirt. And if you're not prepared, you're not going to make it.


In the end, I don't see this having an impact. It was between Ringer and Royce Jenkins-Stone to be the "other" young LB and it was sounding as if RJS won that battle. He didn't redshirt last year either. We've still got Mike Jones to add 3rd team depth along with Antonio Poole if he can stay healthy.

That said, best of luck to Ringer! He gave it his best shot from all accounts. He'll have success, I wish him nothing but great things. I enjoy when our (former) guys like Dan O'Neill have success...I hope Ringer is the same.


May 7th, 2013 at 5:42 AM ^

Oddly enough people are saying Poole is the next likely candidate to leave for health/playing time reasons. Odd, because he was really the steal of Hoke's first class he had to keep together and add to in a few weeks. He was predicted to play pretty early and has taken a very Ringer route since coming here (even before KR). I think the staff wants Wile to focus on kicking and Hagerup is a boomer when on so I think Hagerup will be back. That said, as with most teams we'll likely lose 1-4 more kids after Ringer between today and the end of the season.

Mr. Yost

May 6th, 2013 at 11:04 PM ^

Why does this have to be some conspiracy? Has Nick Saban tainted us all?

I don't think there has to be some motive of trying to get Ringer to leave or off the team.

Like I said, he's basically on a 1.5 year redshirt and he wasn't going to play this year. Hell, a lot of guys would leave.

Sure a lot of guys go 1.5 or even 2.5 years without playing, but how many (outside of QB's and OL) enroll early? That to me is key.

IMO, unless you're a QB or OL, if you enroll early, you're not expecting to redshirt. When you do, you expect some serious PT the following year. Ringer was behind like 8 guys not even including Jake Ryan or the incoming freshman.

If you want to play, this is the best case scenario for both parties. Otherwise ride out your scholarship getting a free education knowing you're not going to play a meaningful down. Ken Wilkins seems to love Michigan or it probably fair to assume he would left. But if coaches aren't forcing him out, if they're allowing Mike Jones back for a 5th year, if they're keeping Antonio Poole who's been often injured...why would they force out Ringer?

Poor argument. Just let the kid go and wish him the very best. Again, it's not hurting Michigan and it seems like its best for a kid who wants to play college football.

Mr. Yost

May 7th, 2013 at 12:09 PM ^

He's actually been gone for awhile. I was thinking Jordan Paskorz who seems to be enjoying the free education (because he could've transferred and never did).


I also loved (kidding, HATED) this nugget from that thread:

"At least he gives us another opportunity to regard the wreckage that was Rich Rodriguez's disastrous 2010 recruiting class. Hard hats required for next paragraph entry.

GONE: Cullen Christian, Kenny Wilkins, Demar Dorsey, Austin White, Carvin Johnson, Terry Talbott, Terrence Talbott, Christian Pace, Davion Rogers, Jerald Robinson, Ricardo Miller, Conelius Jones, Stephen Hopkins, DJ Williamson, Antonio Kinard, Ray Vinopal.


ON TEAM, <10 MEANINGFUL SNAPS: Jordan Paskorz, Josh Furman, Marvin Robinson, Richard Ash

GUYS WHO HAVE PLAYED SOME FOOTBALL: Devin Gardner, Jake Ryan, Jeremy Jackson, Jibreel Black. UPDATE: Courtney Avery and Drew Dileo as well.

Four Six guys out of 27. Good gravy."

***Note, it should've always been SEVEN guys because Brian forgot to count Hagerup."