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jaron dukes
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Exit Jaron Dukes, Reon Dawson, Maybe Freddy Canteen Comment Count

Brian

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Dukes caught the only TD of last year's spring game against Dennis Norfleet

Per Harbaugh:

The departures of Dukes and Dawson bring Michigan to or under 85 depending on the status of the as-yet-unsigned Dytarious Johnson; if Canteen does not make it back they'd be at 84 and able to issue a scholarship to Ryan Glasgow.

Comments

We are back

March 27th, 2016 at 11:52 AM ^

Maybe a select few don't but majority does and I know because I've been there before just a different sport. Now a days im a trainer in a variety of sports and many of my athletes have gone onto NAIA,D1, D2,D3,and juco. So I will tell you this for majority of kids there is no worse feeling than not being good enough and having to watch someone else play.



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madmaxweb

March 27th, 2016 at 1:29 AM ^

I'm a little late to the party and someone may have already talked about this but what if the NCAA or the conferences had some outside Doctors do a check up on every player who is supposedly unable to play any longer and provide with a second or third opinion to help limit the amount of teams who may be trying to force healthyish players into accepting a medical.



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TESOE

March 27th, 2016 at 9:28 AM ^

I wish I hadn't. What a bunch of whiners. We aren't Alabama until someone complains that they were forced out without cause. No one is saying that.

Pipkins isn't making a ruckus because he doesn't want his medical records to be public record. No beat writer is going to get that out of him. Harbaugh knows what he is doing and so does Kutcher.

These medical redshirts are not an issue until they are disputed publicly by the players like they were in Alabama.

We can increase scholarships but that will cut out FB from many schools.  A better idea is to decrease scholarships to 63 and let another sport exist.  We already sacrifice too much for FB as it is (IMO only.)

People need to back off the ledge and enjoy spring.

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CarrIsMyHomeboy

March 27th, 2016 at 10:04 AM ^

I liked what you said about whining and this situation being unclear (it isn't oversigning unless the eliminated student [1] fights to stay but is rejected AND [2] his elimination brings the team from above 85 closer to 85. If a player is eliminated against his will and the scholarship situation falls below 85, then we have a Pipkins situation, which is benign).

However, I strongly disagreed with the opinion that came next. Dropping the scholarship count from 85 to anything - let alone a number so arbitrary and extreme as 63 - is intensely counter to every Michigan self-interest. That's a recipe for restructuring CFB in a manner allowing non-helmet P5 schools like MSU and mid-majors to rise up higher (and for longer) than ever in history.

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TESOE

March 27th, 2016 at 10:24 AM ^

they are dividable there as well which I also support.  That is a very legit way to compensate players by their contribution   

This isn't the forum to present that idea fleshed out, but it deserves thought.  If participation declines so should scholarships.  In the midwest at least... it is declining.

I have no issue with other schools rising as long as MIchigan is the best.  We don't need scholarship limits to make that so.  We have an embarassing array of FB talent this year.  OSU has had one for a decade or more.

There are other sports that men play that we do not support because of our focus on Football.  Fan support is already lagging by some measures.  Money is not... at least not yet.

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CarrIsMyHomeboy

March 27th, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^

I believe you are underestimating the extent to which CFB is a zero-sum game. Most of Michigan's success in this sport has arisen because we stockpiled players to both keep them away from the competition and allow a superior blend of cream to rise to the top. Heck, the entire "Big Two, Little Eight" idiom was born in the era of 105 and 95 scholarships. The reduction of those numbers to 85 are routinely used to explain Michigan's and OSU's less complete dominance in the last 30 years, replaced by increased Big Ten parity. Even more randomness would reign in a 63-scholly world system.

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TESOE

March 27th, 2016 at 11:28 AM ^

matter and at least for some of it the players were paid under the table and for all of it playing football meant something different than today.

But yeah... I agree about Big 2 Little 8 and the stockpiling phenomena but Michigan already suffers at the hands of others who have mastered ways to undermine the 85 limit.

Michigan doesn't need this to be successful.  Randomness is good here.  I'm not sure what is wrong with it, especially if the talent pool shrinks.

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CarrIsMyHomeboy

March 27th, 2016 at 12:36 PM ^

In the current world order, but even more so in the old world order (I.E.: 105- and 95-man eras), "helmet schools" comprising Michigan, OSU, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, and a few others concentrate at the top of the standings and are disproportionately crowned national champion. Largely because they've parlayed their wealth, facilities and tradition to stockpile talent. I believe Michigan is better served in a system where the CFB alpha dog is one of ten or so "helmet" schools than in a random system where CFB royalty becomes an obsolete concept and Michigan fights for alpha dog with ~120 programs with more equal "starting material" (recruits' natural talent) than at any time in CFB history.

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BradP

March 27th, 2016 at 10:07 AM ^

First off, the vast majority of Alabama's medical hardship guys did not publicly dispute them.  It was still assumed that when Alabama was oversigned come signing day and non-contributors started dropping, that it was processing.  People are just applying the same standard of doubt.

Second, you say Michigan isn't Alabama until they are publicly disputed, then you (very oddly) dismiss the guy who publicly disputed his medical hardship from Michigan.

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CarrIsMyHomeboy

March 27th, 2016 at 10:59 AM ^

Pipkins disputed his medical hardship. But that hardship came when Michigan was *under* 85 scholarships. It can't be oversigning if the team is undersigned. So what was the Pipkins thing all about? Good question. It was weird. At best, it could be that Pipkins can never in life take no for an answer. At worst, it could be something unprecedented like "Pipkins we have enough room for you on the scholarship roster but, honestly, I don't want you to dilute the attention of my coaches on the practice field so go away." That second one, though strictly possible, is almost incomprehensible. But even if it were true, it still isn't oversigning.

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DarkWolverine

March 27th, 2016 at 11:26 AM ^

There Was a Benefit from His Departure
Some walk on got a scholarship due to Pipkins departure. Allen, Glasgow, somebody only on ST or scout. If Pipkins plays a consistent role on his new team this year, then there is a possibility they wanted him gone and medical reasons were an excuse. Not as big a benefit of bringing in a 4 star freshman, but a benefit. Especially with Harbaugh bringing in a bunch of legacy walk ons like Wanglers, Dunaways, etc.



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CarrIsMyHomeboy

March 27th, 2016 at 12:24 PM ^

(1) The word "benefit" is bland, broad and nondescript, hence why I chose to shape my argument around oversigning, which is more charged and tightly defined. Not to mention "benefits" are far from necessarily unethical. (2) I never declared there was zero benefit to dismissing Pipkins (in fact, I fabricated a scenario in which his departure may have allowed the coaches more time with other players, which would be a benefit. (3) Giving a walk-on a scholarship is only a "good feelings" benefit. It provides zero competitive advantage. Those players are on the team regardless their extent of out-of-pocket tuition.

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team126

March 27th, 2016 at 9:03 AM ^

I don't see any problem one way or the other. If someone is hurt (like Pipkins), I don't see the benefit of keeping playing to get life-changing injuries down the road. No NFL team will pick up a guy with significant injuries, even for a guy with a lot of talent. 

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CarrIsMyHomeboy

March 27th, 2016 at 10:39 AM ^

As for the "oversigning" question, at most one of these three cuts can even potentially be oversigning. Oversigning requires at least two things: for a kid to be cut against his will AND for that cut to happen when the scholarship count is at 86 or larger in order to shrink things back to 85. Not only have zero of these players complained yet, but this is a story where (if we lump Canteen in because it sounds inevitable), we are going from 86 -> 85 -> 84 -> 83. Only that first transition even has the *potential* to meet the definition (and even then it requires the player to complain, which they haven't yet). The others don't have a chance. Because words mean things, right? It can't be oversigning if the team was appropriately signed. It can be oversigning if the team was undersigned.

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Elwood

March 27th, 2016 at 1:36 PM ^

There were 1-2 a year under Hoke too.

After the Pipkins incident last year, I'm inclined to believe Hoke let chronically injured players play out their career.

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grumbler

March 27th, 2016 at 8:22 PM ^

I tend to agree.  Pipkins already had arthritis in his knee - he even said so himself.  If he had arthritis already, at his age, then I can understand Harbaugh & co not wanting to be part of contributing to an even worse health problem down the road.  I can also understand Pipkins wanting to play and try to live out his dream, even if that came with a future price.

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