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Exit Daxton Hill Comment Count

Seth December 8th, 2018 at 9:34 PM

Michigan's 2019 class just took a heartbreaking blow, as five-star/top commit Daxton Hill flipped tonight to Alabama.

Hill is the consensus top safety in the country and likely would have helped Michigan immediately in its quest to suffocate all possible offensive options with more talented players. It especially hurts because of how well Hill would have filled the one hole in Don Brown's system. It triply sucks because #3 overall safety Lewis Cine, a former teammate of Michigan commit Mike Sainristil, appeared to lose interest in Michigan shortly after Hill committed. It quadruply sucks because it's further evidence that our entire reality is some awful child's NCAA 2014 Alabama dynasty.

Hill is the fifth decommit of this class but the first that was truly surprising, and the most impossible to replace. Michigan still has four-star safety Quinten Johnson in the class, as well as viper prospects Joey Velazquez and Amauri Pesek-Hickson, and a slew of lanky prospects from last year. In the past Don Brown has found NFL safeties (John Johnson, Justin Simmons, Obi Melifanwu) in under-scouted athletes but there's no Melifanwus on the board at the moment, unless you count Pesek-Hickson.

With the loss of its only current five-star Michigan's class has dropped out of the top ten in the 247 composite. Michigan is expected to reel in one of its top receiver prospects and one or two giant offensive linemen, and remains the crystal ball leader for five-star DE Zach Harrison.

Comments

ak47

December 8th, 2018 at 11:15 PM ^

This is fucking loser talk. For one we have bagmen. And secondly this is because we looked like shit against osu. What reason does Daxton hill have to come to Michigan? Want to win a championship and get drafted in the first round? Bama gives you a better shot. Want the best possible education while playing division 1 football? That’s stanford. We aren’t championship contenders and so we aren’t getting recruits who want that. We sold Rashan Gary on hope, we got dpj because of local ties. It’s year 4 and daxton isn’t from Michigan he’s got no reason to be at Michigan. He committed when he thought we were competing for championships. He decommitted when that turned out to be far from the truth. It’s as simple as that and any other talk is just pathetic excuse making 

 

You Only Live Twice

December 8th, 2018 at 11:23 PM ^

AK47,

Bama cannot, and does not, draft all the high star recruits they get.  The promise isn't of the NFL salary, it starts way before that so yes the payment structure is relevant.  You might even be right about why Daxton Hill flipped but it doesn't change the big picture.  And that picture isn't about the OSU game.  

Saban's bagmen network doesn't just deliver him the best talent, it keeps other schools from being able to mine the same talent.

stephenrjking

December 9th, 2018 at 12:00 AM ^

This is just wrong.

I disagree with ak47's full bagman assertion--I don't believe Michigan is deliberately flouting the rules in an organized way in the same way that Alabama is.

But we're fools if we don't think there's stuff that is going on. Stuff that people don't want to ask too many questions about.

And, further, even if Bama's network is significantly more sophisticated and audacious than ours, they are NOT more sophisticated than every other school. Simply put: If Bama is doing it, Auburn is doing it. LSU is doing it. FSU is doing it. Georgia is doing it (obviously!). Ole Miss is doing it. Mississippi State is doing it. 

It seems pretty obvious to say that Clemson is doing it; they also haven't landed a 24/7 composite top five recruiting class in the Dabo Swinney era. 

Bama isn't offering significant levels of benefits that other teams aren't. They are offering great coaching, winning, and the best NFL draft prospects. A guy who wants to get paid can go to a lot of places; a guy that wants to win championships and play in the NFL? They want to go to Bama. 

Don

December 9th, 2018 at 9:25 AM ^

There are a surprising number of people who aren't willing or able to recognize that Saban is right up there with Yost, Rockne, and Bryant as the best college football coaches in the history of the sport. Attributing that success to bagmen or PEDs is excuse-making at its finest.

Unfortunately, Urban Meyer should probably belong to that list too. 

M-Dog

December 9th, 2018 at 9:49 AM ^

The entire SEC has bagmen and PEDs, and has had them for decades.

Alabama was down until Saban came along, despite its bagmen and PEDs.

Saban was the difference.  Same thing at LSU.

He is the best there is.  He'll be "stopped" when he retires, and not before then.

Sucks to be the rest of college football, but it is what it is.

L'Carpetron Do…

December 9th, 2018 at 4:55 PM ^

His teams are amazing but I can't help but think something is going on. His teams are suspiciously good, whether that's from alleged sordid/illegal activities or from his superior coaching ability

I'm also suspicious because he was a flop in the pros. And his teams at Michigan State and LSU were good but not this dominant. It reminds me of how Bellichick was shit when he coached the Browns but has somehow now led the Patriots to a million fucking Super Bowls and is the greatest of all-time. And then you realized 'oh yeah, he was cheating.'

I think Saban and Bellichick are excellent coaches and probably the best in the game. But I think they share a certain type of cunning and sneaky attitude that leads them to bend and break the rules (and I think the NCAA and NFL have let them get away with a lot).  

I'm not sure what it is exactly but I don't trust that Saban has built this dynasty in a squeaky-clean fashion. And I wouldn't be surprised if years from now all these championships are vacated.

Bill in Birmingham

December 9th, 2018 at 10:11 AM ^

I agree with most of what you say here. Everyone can neg away if they want, but I don't believe Saban has to use bagmen based on the points you make. I've been in Alabama for over thirty years and, believe me, there were times when they paid. Auburn may have even been worse. But at this point, Saban gets people in the league and wins and the recruiting takes care of itself. I can't stand the guy and think he's a jerk, just don't think he has to pay. And I really would like to know about the comment made above that we have bagmen. Who the hell are they? I may be naïve, but I don't believe everybody pays players. I don't believe Michigan pays players.

mitchewr

December 9th, 2018 at 11:41 AM ^

I think you bring up an excellent point. Clemson is a shining example that it doesn’t take all 5 stars and top two recruiting classes to win at the highest levels.

it can CLEARLY be done, it just takes the right coaching, scheme, and game planning.

And while the entirety of the ACC might not be world beaters (B1G ain’t so hot either) remember that the last time Clemson played the best team in the B1G they shut em out 32-0. So Clemson is not solely a product of a weak conference nor are they overrated. 

Ghost of Fritz…

December 9th, 2018 at 12:15 PM ^

This is not an either/or situation.  It is both.

Saban is among the greatest CFB coaches ever.  And that is a huge part of Alabama's current best ever in the history of CFB run. 

But a sophisticated and institutionalized system (way beyond what happens at most schools) of illegal benefits is also a necessary ingredient to starting and maintaining for so long Alabama's unbelievable run.

Both things can be and are true.  Both things are important factors in pulling down the lion's share of top 100 recruits, winning so many NCs, and being so dominant for so long.

As discussed in a different thread, Alabama is like Lance Amrstong.  He was a gifted rider, already among the best. 

But that alone did not "win" 7 TdF.  He and his team had a more sophisticated and complete system of PEDs than most of his rivals. 

Most of the other riders were using PEDs too, either reluctantly and occasionally because when everyone is doping they had to at least dabble just to keep their pro contracts, and/or willingly but in a less well organized and sophisticated way than Armstrong's team.

Similar to CBB.  Pitino is a great coach.  But he did not beat Michigan (recruit the roster that beat Michigan) in the final only by being a great coach. 

jackw8542

December 9th, 2018 at 1:11 AM ^

Loser talk is saying that Stanford will give a player a better education than Michigan.  The London Times rankings have named Michigan the best public university in the world for many years.  Even if Stanford is a hair better as an academic institution, it is such a minute difference that Michigan can give its players as good of an education as they could get at Stanford.  For that matter, Harbaugh has made it his mission to make Michigan's athletic program as academically rigorous as Stanford's program, and, from what we see with the ever increasing number of all-Academic Big Ten players, it's working.  Hill is going to Alabama because either he thinks it gives him a better chance to get to the NFL (probably wrong, as our DBs seem to get drafted just fine) or because he is getting paid or because he doesn't want to have to work at academics, and if, instead of having a great college career, he gets hurt, then he will have a worthless degree.  As an alum, I don't want us to be like Alabama or OSU.  I love everything about what Harbaugh is doing for Michigan, and the wins over OSU will come.  Go Blue!

Autocracy Now

December 9th, 2018 at 9:11 AM ^

A lot of college education is what one makes of it. That said, Stanford is obviously better in terms of academics. Michigan is great, but with the exception of certain programs or majors Stanford has us beat. But weighing other things (academics, athletics, alumni network, etc.), I think we're the better option for most kids. 

Our Man in Havana

December 9th, 2018 at 10:11 PM ^

In the last ten years Alabama has had 65 of it's players get drafted, 14 of whom were defensive backs, and Michigan 38 (6 DBs). Since we already heard that Hill has a high GPA, we can also dispense with the ignorant assertion that he doesn't want to work at academics. It's so tiring to hear people who are so far removed from being 17 or 18 years old, haven't lived the life of a 5-star recruit, and don't really have any idea what's going on in said recruit's head, proclaim that they know why he made a choice. Maybe he decided it was too cold. Maybe he liked that Alabama was a bit closer to home. Maybe his friends shamed him (good-naturedly or not) after the Ohio State loss (that matters a lot more to most kids his age than it does to us). The kid could play at any school he wanted. And until someone knocks them off, Alabama is at the top of the heap. Is it so hard to imagine him changing his mind and wanting to go to the winningest program, and get the media exposure that comes with that?

 

The Chancre

December 9th, 2018 at 8:23 AM ^

It'a not nearly as stupid as whining like a stuck pig about "bagmen" every time a recruit doesn't come to Michigan.

It is pathetic to read this crap every time a recruit goes to an SEC school. Why aren't MgoPosters on the NCAA infractions committee? They seem to know more than anybody else "what is really going on."

It's one thing to cry about rich boosters, it's another thing to assail the integrity of every young man who doesn't want to come to Ann Arbor to freeze his ass off and get punked by 2-4 teams every year and then go play in some shit bowl game.

Oh, wait, I forgot. Michigan players got to meet the pope. WOW!

schreibee

December 9th, 2018 at 11:32 AM ^

Now even BLATANT trolls are getting upvoted here!

I don't think anything (even the most recent osu game) has caused the board the ennui of this particular decommit!

It feels almost existential, as if every other thing that's happened could be plausibly explained or denied. But not this.

This one has only "Goddamn bagmen!" or "C'mon, we ALL know it SUCKS to play for Michigan! Get REAL" as arguments. 

It feels almost like politics! 

L'Carpetron Do…

December 9th, 2018 at 5:10 PM ^

Meeting the Pope is amazing, dude. 

(I don't even go to church anymore and I'm very aagainst the Vatican these days for a lot of reasons but I still like this pope a lot and think its a remarkable opportunity and experience. That's a billion times better than getting a few grand from some crooked booster and its probably worth dropping a few games a year, as weird as that sounds).

schreibee

December 9th, 2018 at 11:00 AM ^

The impact of the Dax Decommit on this board can best be exemplified by ak47's standard anti-Michigan screed being upvoted more than negged!

I honestly don't think I've ever seen one of his posts in positive territory before! 

But after another in a seemingly endless litany of program bashing posts by ak I just have to ask: 

What are you suggesting Michigan do?

Fire Harbaugh? Or other coaches? 

Increase "recruiting budget" (as you say they are already using bagmen)

You bash the program endlessly (in the guise of a Michigan fan - maybe you're really a troll?) You list here all the reasons a player would want to play elsewhere. What are some reasons a player might WANT to play for Michigan? 

What should Michigan do to attract (and hold onto) prospects like Dax?

Truly curious if you have ANY positive thoughts? 

Craptain Crunch

December 9th, 2018 at 9:38 AM ^

Was that Alabama bagman not there when he verbally committed the first time? Alabama has the better all around product and produces results. Michigan hasn't produced squat under Jim Harbaguh. Oh sorry, my bad. It has a Co-B1GE divisional leader trophy for this year shared with Ohio Stat that hung 62 points on what was supposed to be the best D in the country. Don Brown, the most exposed D coordinator in the land. He should be forced to shave his mustache off. 

FLwolvfan22

December 9th, 2018 at 3:48 PM ^

Gotta win The Game, should be the first item on all Michigan coach's job description. To hell with everything else, to hell with playoff, just win that game. Do that and everything else like beating Sparty, getting top tier recruits, etc will fall into place. Were it my task to accomplish the first thing I would do is recruit the State of Ohio and get as many guys from there as possible. Demographics, change, everyone has moved south, whatever, that state should still be the cornerstone of Michigan recruiting.

mGrowOld

December 8th, 2018 at 9:45 PM ^

Given relatively equal coaching 5 star athletes will almost always beat 3 star athletes despite what movies like "Little Giants" would have you believe.

Hence our record against OSU since 2001.  Very sad.

wolverine1987

December 9th, 2018 at 9:03 AM ^

Why more people here can't just say this mystifies me. Ohio State is better at football than Michigan is. They are superior in football, with better talent, a richer recruiting base, and they therefore should have won most of the games they played against us. That is an objective fact of the last 20 years. 

Hopefully that will change post-Meyer in the next 20. 

M-Dog

December 9th, 2018 at 9:56 AM ^

Yes, Ohio State has had better coaching and better players than Michigan since basically the turn of the century.

And those better coaches and players emphasize the Michigan game in a way that gets them to play their best game, in the their biggest game of the year.

The result is: They beat us.

It's kind of fair, really.