Anywhere But Tampa: Rejiggering The Big Ten's Bowl Picture
or you could put it at the Meadowlands or whatever
Jim Delany's been saying the Big Ten's bowl picture is about to change significantly for a while now. An example from ESPN:
The Big Ten's future bowl lineup is starting to come into focus. There will be changes beginning in the 2014 season.
How many?
"It could be a lot," Delany told a group of reporters, including yours truly, on Wednesday.
Good, said everyone bored with central Florida. A couple of bowls on the hit list:
Two potential lineup additions are the Pinstripe Bowl in New York, a game the Big Ten has targeted for a while, and the Holiday Bowl in San Diego, where the two sides have mutual interest. Delany wants to keep a presence in Florida with games against the SEC, but it's unlikely the Big Ten will continue to play in three games -- Capital One, Outback and Gator -- every season. Remember also that Big Ten teams will appear in the Orange Bowl more often in the coming seasons.
With the expansion, the league is probably going to add a tie-in, FWIW. It does not sound like any of those exotic proposals wherein multiple conferences switch off a few bowls as dictated by attractiveness will fly.
What should the Big Ten do?
Diversify in both time and space. I'm sure the long-running Citrus matchup will continue; other than that let's get out of Florida, and honestly off of New Year's Day. The ridiculousness of four Big Ten teams playing at once on NYD has to weigh on TV executives as much as it does fans in this era of conference pride. (Or, in the Big Ten's case, conference hope-to-avoid-embarrassment.)
An ideal slate would have maybe two extra NYD games other than the Rose that go off at noon and eight plus a December 30th matchup at 8PM that acts as a lead-in to the new back-to-back tripleheaders. Also it would dump Tampa and Jacksonville for NYC and San Diego.
If the leagues were bold enough to move the Citrus to that slot that already-popular bowl would act as the gateway to a college football smorgasbord. Somebody is going to be playing at 8 on December 30th; the Big Ten would be wise to be a part of that.
Try to find some neutral ground. I hope one thing the Big Ten looks for when it's shopping itself around is neutral territory: playing a Big 12 team in San Francisco; playing a Pac-12 team in New Mexico, etc. If they do get in that NYC bowl that is a good start.
I'm doubtful they'll pull that off since bowl executives will be counting on ticket sales more heavily—as Andy Staples points out, one effect of this switch up is to get more favorable terms from bowl games since college football conferences finally realize bowl committees are useless relics. That means they'll be taking on more of the risk and they'll be focused on helping attendance as much as maximizing TV attractiveness.
In fact…
Hell, just invent your own bowl game. My favorite piece of corporate-boardroom raiderdom in this era of profit maximization was the Big 12 and SEC creating the jointly-owned Champions Bowl, which became the Sugar Bowl except owned by the leagues. Seeya, blazers. I'd like to see the league explore that model with a game in Chicago or Indy that they provide a high-profile team to.
And someone put a dang bowl in Denver already, which is sunny with an average high near 50 in January, is easily accessible from anywhere in the country, has an iconic stadium, and is the winter sports capital of the country. Also, horses are associated with football.
BOWL GAME ON THE MOON. halp ive been hacked by mark hollis
UPDATE: some hints from the ACC: they're playing in the Pinstripe Bowl, probably against a Big Ten team, and they're getting back the Gator, so expect the B10 to dump Jacksonville. Also, how would this work?
There is also a good possibility that when the Big Ten plays in the Orange Bowl, the ACC will slide into the Big Ten’s slot in the Citrus Bowl.
No me gusta.
I still want us to invent something in Montreal and Toronto (sup International Bowl?). Both areas are accessible from the Upper Midwest and rather nice places to visit. Yes it is Canada in the winter, but the Canadians know how to put everything indoors, for example Montreal's Underground City is a much better attraction than some second tier Florida City any time of the year.
Plus imagine the tourism options if you sync the game up with say an outdoor hockey game or the like.
and I think that you're right about Toronto and Montreal being pretty good destinations. Two things: the SkyDome (now called the Rogers Centre) is a crap stadium, in my experience. Also, although Toronto and Montreal are nice cities I'm not sure that most people think of them as attractive destinations. I didn't until I had been to them.
NYC, Toronto and Montreal are all great venues to have a game, but from the perspective of a player coming from where most of the B1G schools are located, wouldn't you rather go someplace warm? Ditto for Denver, but what do you do for the week....take everyone to Vail for a day of skiing and hope that no one blows out a knee? I don't know about others, but if I and the family are going to a bowl game over the Christmas holidays, it is for more than just the game and often to get one more week of warm weather in before winter's hell breaks loose.
Also, although Toronto and Montreal are nice cities I'm not sure that most people think of them as attractive destinations.Not sure why you would think this; they both receive a lot of tourists annually. I don't know how many come in the winter, though.
If we are going international then play it at Estadio Azteca.
Flight is a little costy but cheap once you get there.Vamos Azul!!!
Would love to see a Denver bowl game...I recently moved here from South Florida--it's a great environment, and has a lot of midwest transplants with a large Michigan alumni presence. People could come for a weekend, enjoy the great city, ski, and see a game...and yes, the sun shines here almost every day.
is pretty bad. its like getting three paper cuts in the exact same place at the exact same time.
i get that the B1G wants to get to the west coast for another non rose bowl game, but by the time you go so far, with airfare and a longer stay, you are looking at a pretty expensive endeavor to see a 4th or 5th place team play another of equal ilk. i would rather the middle tier bowls be closer to the base - atlanta, new york, even charlotte, nashville or whatever. that way you can get there pretty easily, get to the game and not have to invest tons of time or money.
Most expensive flight I have taken was to Sugar Bowl 2 years ago. Flights to Tampa from Michigan for last bowl game were $400, $500 when I was looking. I don't think distance is a factor for price you pay that time of year as much as the demand is very high for that time of year around the holidays that drives the price up.
going on a trip with friends or family, say 3 other people you are looking at $1600 to $2000 for airfare, versus a road trip, even a long one you are looking at $250-300 worth of gas for the 4 of you.
But if at bowl time you're finding cheaper flights to San Diego than Tampa, let us know where to find them.
I'd wager that west coast bowls require less travelling support since B1G schools have large, underserved fan and alum bases out there who would eat up a ticket allotment
but I live here!
This is exactly right. Nearly any Big Ten team could fill their half of the Holiday Bowl from CA residents alone. Between SF, LA and SD, California is chock full of Big Ten grads (and fans). You also have big cities like Seattle and Phoenix that are a quick trip.
That bowl could simply service the Big Ten fans west of the Rockies every year and make out just fine.
As for midwest bowl games, I don't think Chicago or Indy have the national appeal for tv audiences in the dead of winter to create a bowl with great prestige. It would be hard to market the game. While it is the culture of the NFL to play in cold, northern climates, it is not the culture of college come New Years Day. TV audiences would be puzzled and not as inclined to tune a midwestern bowl game in when given the option of watching a Florida bowl game with like teams instead. Because of this, unless you supplant the Rose Bowl by providing the Big Ten champ to this new northern bowl, I don't think that audiences would buy the prestige of this midwestern game.
I think an interesting alternative site, even as oppossed to Denver, would be UNLV's new mega-stadium, if they can get it built.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/mar/29/why-unlvs-decision-drop-partner-stadium-project-ri/
Having the massive, one wall screen would be an attraction akin to the megaboard at Jerry World, which would provide the stadium with some credibility for both ticket holders and television audiences. In addition, I feel the primary use of the stadium as a college football venue, as oppossed to a traditional NFL venue that invites college teams once a year, would help the bowl game's presitige. The college game would "belong" in the stadium. Furthermore, Las Vegas around New Years Day is always a lively scene with a plethora of pageantry. This could make marketing the game very easy and further its appeal.
If a bowl game could be commissioned in the first year of this new stadium and quality teams can be incentivized to participate, I think the marketing and promotion of this game could go a long way to bringing this bowl game to the teir of bowl games just below the BCS bowl level rather quickly.
have you seen the s**t tv audiences are not puzzled by? there are like 12 shows about storage lockers! 4 shows about pawn shops! multiple shows about cupcakes! there is an entire channel dedicated to a woman with a large posterior who made a sex tape 15 years ago and her whole family! people seems to be able to sort out the quippy remarks of 3 shows called CSI and two called NCIS.
a bowl game in chicago or indy may not work, but its not because people that watch tv are too cerebral.
TV audiences for football games and for storage lockers are completely different. They aren't even similar in this galaxy. The only thing comparable to the two is the medium, television. People who watch storage trash are just weird and looking to kill off their life doing nothing. People who watch football have an expectation and a standard built upon memories of history. That is why the Rose Bowl maintains its national appeal and the Big Ten Championship in Indy is not really that appealing to anyone outside of the fans whose teams are participating. Futher, it is why the NFL succeeds and the USFL and the XFL didn't. Product standards and tradtion. Don't compare sports audiences with an expectation to boring, filler programming. They don't relate.
I realize Chicago doesn't have the national cachet, but I would point out that most Midwesterner are genetically programmed to go to Chicago for good shopping and big city appeal. I've always wondered how a pre Christmas Bowl in Chicago would play out well. Seed in a midtier Big Ten team versus someone (maybe Mountain West or MAC).
If you can get decent enough seeds, people will watch solely due to the sheer lack of anything ressembling decent football at that point in the year and your stadium will fill up as the midwestern fan base reflexivelly head to Chicago to shop, see the Christmas lights, and catch a football game. It's a fairly solid weekend trip.
The other thing I think would be interesting would be to see how many people with some form of B1G tie have family come to Chicago for Christmas. Perhaps if you had a bowl game on the 26th you could attract a lot of people who would come to see family for Christmas and stick around an extra day to catch their alma mater play.
Also if we invent something, we can give the BTN rights to the broadcast and just stream it. Get out ahead of the curve on that idea.
A Chicago bowl would be ok, kind of like the Pinstripe Bowl. But like that bowl, you're not sending any big names there because nobody (even our own teams) would want to play there. I'd guess it'd become the preserve of Northwestern and Purdue.
An Indianapolis bowl would just be the Pizza Bowl with a less funny name
None of this even matters. (Not to discredit this post) But it really doesnt matter at all what we think. The SEC isnt going anywhere out of the south to play anyone. The SEC is so stuck up, they wont even accept Home and Away series' with BIG 10 schools. They wont play up north. They think theyre too good to come to us. As far as the B1G, i like te sound of San Diego, and please baby jesus no more NYD games. So yea, if the New York thing does happen, or any other venue above the Mason Dixon... Suck it SEC.
I'd like to see some major bowls in Big Ten land- it seems unfair to me that all the other major conferences get the premier bowls.
If you switch allignment for conferences in bowls some bowls that are currently ehh-bowls could become more enticing (kind of how it seems the Pinstripes bowl will become a bigger deal). It gets tiring seeing the top Big Ten teams play PAC 12 teams in CA and SEC and ACC teams in FL....
DC/Baltimore area.
It's still c-c-c-cold here. We get less winter than the midwest, not no winter.
I like the idea of sharing / owning a bowl like the SEC and B12 did. How about a shared bowl between the B1G and the P12 where the site alternates? Even numbered years it's in Chicago / Indy and odd numbered years it's in LA or Denver. Could do the same thing with the B12 with Dallas or Houston.
I love multiple Big Ten teams on New Year's day. Love to belly up to the NYD smorgasbord.
It would be nice though if they were not all on at the same time. I would be quite happy with one at noon/1:00, the Rose Bowl, and one at 8:00.
"BOWL GAME ON THE MOON. halp ive been hacked by mark hollis[/Newt Gingrich]"
fixt
| Name | Season Started | City | Most Recent Payout | High °F | Low °F |
| BCS National Championship Game | Rotates^ | 18,000,000 | |||
| Orange Bowl | 1934 | Miami Gardens, Florida | 18,000,000 | 76 | 60 |
| Capital One Bowl | 1946 | Orlando, Florida | 4,250,000 | 71 | 49 |
| Russell Athletic Bowl | 1990 | Orlando, Florida | 2,125,000 | 71 | 49 |
| Outback Bowl | 1986 | Tampa, Florida | 3,400,000 | 70 | 52 |
| Beef 'O' Brady's Bowl | 2008 | St. Petersburg, Florida | 1,000,000 | 70 | 52 |
| Fiesta Bowl | 1971 | Glendale, Arizona | 18,000,000 | 69 | 46 |
| Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl | 1989 | Tempe, Arizona | 3,300,000 | 69 | 46 |
| Rose Bowl | 1901 | Pasadena, California | 18,000,000 | 68 | 48 |
| Gator Bowl | 1945 | Jacksonville, Florida | 7,000,000 | 65 | 41 |
| Holiday Bowl | 1978 | San Diego, California | 2,350,000 | 65 | 49 |
| Poinsettia Bowl | 2005 | San Diego, California | 750,000 | 65 | 49 |
| Alamo Bowl | 1993 | San Antonio, Texas | 3,175,000 | 63 | 41 |
| Meineke Car Care Bowl of Texas | 2006 | Houston, Texas | 1,700,000 | 63 | 43 |
| Sugar Bowl | 1934 | New Orleans, Louisiana | 18,000,000 | 62 | 45 |
| New Orleans Bowl | 2001 | New Orleans, Louisiana | 500,000 | 62 | 45 |
| Maaco Bowl Las Vegas | 1992 | Las Vegas, Nevada | 1,000,000 | 58 | 39 |
| Cotton Bowl Classic | 1936 | Arlington, Texas | 7,250,000 | 57 | 37 |
| Heart of Dallas Bowl | 2010 | Dallas, Texas | 1,200,000 | 57 | 37 |
| Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl | 2002 | San Francisco, California | 825,000 | 57 | 46 |
| Armed Forces Bowl | 2003 | Fort Worth, Texas | 750,000 | 57 | 37 |
| BBVA Compass Bowl | 2006 | Birmingham, Alabama | 1,000,000 | 54 | 34 |
| Chick-fil-A Bowl | 1968 | Atlanta, Georgia | 3,350,000 | 52 | 34 |
| Belk Bowl | 2002 | Charlotte, North Carolina | 1,000,000 | 51 | 30 |
| Liberty Bowl | 1959 | Memphis, Tennessee | 1,350,000 | 50 | 33 |
| Music City Bowl | 1998 | Nashville, Tennessee | 1,700,000 | 47 | 28 |
| Pinstripe Bowl[6] | 2010 | Bronx, New York | 2,000,000 | 38 | 27 |
| Little Caesars Pizza Bowl | 1997 | Detroit, Michigan | 750,000 | 32 | 19 |
| Sun Bowl | 1934 | El Paso, Texas | 4,100,000 | #N/A | #N/A |
| AdvoCare V100 Bowl | 1976 | Shreveport, Louisiana | 1,100,000 | #N/A | #N/A |
| Military Bowl | 2008 | Washington, D.C. | 1,000,000 | #N/A | #N/A |
| New Mexico Bowl | 2006 | Albuquerque, New Mexico | 750,000 | #N/A | #N/A |
| Hawaii Bowl | 2002 | Honolulu, Hawaii | 750,000 | #N/A | #N/A |
| Famous Idaho Potato Bowl | 1997 | Boise, Idaho | 750,000 | #N/A | #N/A |
| GoDaddy.com Bowl | 1999 | Mobile, Alabama | 750,000 | #N/A |
#N/A |
| City | January High °F | January Low °F | # OF BOWLS |
| Miami, Florida | 76 | 60 | 1 |
| Orlando, Florida | 71 | 49 | 2 |
| Tampa, Florida | 70 | 52 | 2 |
| Phoenix, Arizona | 69 | 46 | 2 |
| Riverside, California | 69 | 43 | 0 |
| Los Angeles, California | 68 | 48 | 1 |
| Jacksonville, Florida | 65 | 41 | 1 |
| San Diego, California | 65 | 49 | 2 |
| Houston, Texas | 63 | 43 | 1 |
| San Antonio, Texas | 63 | 41 | 1 |
| Austin, Texas | 62 | 42 | 0 |
| New Orleans, Louisiana | 62 | 45 | 2 |
| Las Vegas, Nevada | 58 | 39 | 1 |
| San Jose, California | 58 | 42 | 0 |
| Dallas, Texas | 57 | 37 | 3 |
| San Francisco, California | 57 | 46 | 1 |
| Birmingham, Alabama | 54 | 34 | 1 |
| Sacramento, California | 54 | 39 | 0 |
| Atlanta, Georgia | 52 | 34 | 1 |
| Charlotte, North Carolina | 51 | 30 | 1 |
| Raleigh, North Carolina | 51 | 30 | 0 |
| Memphis, Tennessee | 50 | 33 | 1 |
| Oklahoma City, Oklahoma | 50 | 29 | 0 |
| Seattle, Washington | 49 | 37 | 0 |
| Virginia Beach, Virginia | 48 | 33 | 0 |
| Nashville, Tennessee | 47 | 28 | 1 |
| Portland, Oregon | 47 | 36 | 0 |
| Richmond, Virginia | 47 | 28 | 0 |
| Denver, Colorado | 45 | 17 | 0 |
| Louisville, Kentucky | 43 | 27 | 0 |
| Washington, DC | 43 | 29 | 1 |
| Baltimore, Maryland | 41 | 24 | 0 |
| Cincinnati, Ohio | 40 | 22 | 0 |
| Kansas City, Missouri | 40 | 22 | 0 |
| Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | 40 | 26 | 0 |
| St. Louis, Missouri | 40 | 24 | 0 |
| New York, New York | 38 | 27 | 1 |
| Columbus, Ohio | 37 | 23 | 0 |
| Providence, Rhode Island | 37 | 21 | 0 |
| Salt Lake City, Utah | 37 | 22 | 0 |
| Boston, Massachusetts | 36 | 22 | 0 |
| Indianapolis, Indiana | 36 | 21 | 0 |
| Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania | 36 | 21 | 0 |
| Hartford, Connecticut | 35 | 18 | 0 |
| Cleveland, Ohio | 34 | 22 | 0 |
| Detroit, Michigan | 32 | 19 | 1 |
| Rochester, New York | 32 | 18 | 0 |
| Buffalo, New York | 31 | 19 | 0 |
| Chicago, Illinois | 31 | 17 | 0 |
| Milwaukee, Wisconsin | 29 | 16 | 0 |
| Minneapolis, Minnesota | 24 | 8 | 0 |
| http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-city-temperatures-in-january.php |
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_bowl_games |
As someone that lives in Florida the bowl games are the easiest way to try to see the Wolverines play and it would disappoint me if they got rid of them. Having said that I fully expect Michigan to only be in the Rose/BCS level game or in the four team playoff going forward so I guess it wouldn't be too terrible.
I don't really care where we play the bowl games as long as we have the right conference matchups. It would be interesting to see premier bowl matchups in different parts of the country but I don't really mind having more games in Florida either. Not sure what Brian has against Tampa.
Nothing wrong with Florida, but a little variety would be nice. I don't think Florida should be removed from the equation, but putting all of your eggs in the proverbial Floridian basket is a recipe for disinterested fans. Going to the same general place several times a decade isn't for everyone.
I would like to see a head to head matchup with the SEC that is played in atlanta one year and Indy the next. It could have the same name, just two seperate venues.
I doubt the SEC would do it though...
honestly why would the SEC let anythign change? Or anyone in the south for that matter. They reap the benefits of the games being played in their back yard and the 'system' has supported it throughout the years.
The only solution is home games for an NCAA playoff with 32 teams.
jdon
The Citrus Bowl is a terrible stadium, but a $185M renovation is scheduled to be completed by the end of 2014. Local leaders think the renovations will do enough to put Orlando in the conversation for the championship game. At the very least the improvements will make the Champ Sports Bowl and Citrus Bowl much more appealing.
I don't understand all the Tampa and Orlando bashing on this board. Both cities have a ton to offer, especially in January. It's warm and sunny, there's golf, beaches, a ton of family friendly places, good food and drink if you are willing to explore a little bit, and solid nightlife.
Wow, that's a lot of money to renovate that stadium. Does it have any other uses besides the bowl game?
I think we continually underestimate how much players and coaches like the bowl trips... sending them to Toronto might be neat for us, but I doubt Devin Gardner is really excited about going 4 hours up the road to an even colder city over his holiday break.
I'd like to see the Big Ten ditch the bowl in Dallas and hook up with either the Sun Bowl, a really historical bowl in a cool stadium we've never played in, or the Hawaii Bowl.
Devin Gardner would be about as excited going to Toronto as most players from the SEC would be going to a Florida bowl. Why do we assume that northern players want to travel around the country while southern players are content to play near home? Yes, trips are great, but I think players also understand the importance of playing with a homefield advantage.
How about we reduce the number of bowls to the point where we don't have to worry about crap teams making a bowl?
(Yeah, yeah, blazers and $$$$. I get it).
They could make a major bowl in the Midwest work easily enough - they have indoor stadiums, big enough cities to accomodate visitors, and a hotbed of fans. I mean, its not like the Phoenix or Jacksonville areas are hotbeds of tourists outside of events like this, and New Orleans isn't that great of a city once you leave the French Quarter/tourist area. So you can make it work if you get a compelling matchup, which will be the harder part. My guess is that you'll have a better chance getting a Big 12/Pac-12 team to give it a shot than the SEC, but with the right amount of money anyone will listen. But yeah, having to travel to the heart of Florida every year to play a bunch of over-recruiters in their backyard isn't the best use of the B1G's cache.
Good idea B-rye.
Denver where the beer flows like wine and it’s cool to put some smoke in the air…. Sign me up Bro.
Heck, I watched the U.S. world cup "snow bowl" in Denver because of the entertainment value of snow and football (the other football).
I think players like football in the snow, too. How often do you get to do something like that? Chicago would be a great place for a bowl game between Christmas and New Year's. You just won't get an SEC team to play against, but the Big 12, ACC, and some other conferences with northern teams should be. Just pack your warm stuff.
Soldier Field isn't big which could be good or bad. Good...not as many tickets to sell so easier to fill the stadium, but bad in terms of bowl revenue given the aforementioned small number of seats. BTN should be all over this idea.
Also, I'm sure The Rahm-father would approve and I'm sure the Chicago Park District can setup snow making machines to insure snow happens, no matter what.
A lovely place to be late December/early January. I can see either major stadium from my house....! I hate to say this, but during the recent dark age I was kinda hoping we would make the Insight Bowl.
Kind of funny that the ACC would send a team to the Pinstripe Bowl. For most ACC teams, that'd be a trip north, for much colder weather than back home.
There's nothing really it brings. And San Diego in another traditional bowl would be a nice trade. But the appeal of NYC in December is pretty lacking. Yes, players, fans, alumni, you have 5 months of winter, let's take a big trip to....where it's just as cold! And everything is too expensive for the players! (And no matter how many times you say it no one is creating a bowl game in Denver just so you can go skiing).
Tampa wouldn't be a huge loss, but it's still far better than NY. And if we're reqularly getting teams in the Rose and Orange, that would be nice, but Orlando is a great trip. The stadium is a wreck, but the area the players and everyone stays has lots to do. You forget the teams are going to be in these places for closer to two weeks, a lot of the fans two days. What do you want your players doing in NYC in winter? Statue of Liberty is a cold ass trip.
That's what I keep thinking with the Denver, Denver, Denver!!! wishes.
Football teams include a huge proportion of black kids from poor backgrounds meaning they've probably never been skiing, their family members have probably never been skiing and the coaches aren't going to let them go skiing leading up to a bowl game. WTH are the players going to do in cold locations for two weeks? At least in warm places they get a day at the beach, usually a day at a theme park, some time outside in the sun, they like it, their families like it and get to come see them. They're not getting paid, at least give them a trip somewhere they want to be.
I agree the Big Ten is probably too concentrated in Florida, but NYC/Denver/Toronto sure don't seem like the answer to me.
there are worse places to be than NYC over the holidays
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