The myth that "the cupboard was bare"
I couldn't remember most of the guys we had on defense in 2008, so I went and looked them up and what they were rated when they were being recruited. I just went along with the people that said things like "there wasn't much talent" and things like that. But I went and looked up the starters in 2008, and here they are:
Morgan Trent Senior - 4 stars
John Thompson Senior - 3 stars
Terrance Taylor Senior- 4 stars
Will Johnson Senior - 4 stars
Charles Stewart Senior - 3 stars
Donnavon Warren Sophomore - 5 stars
Tim Jamison Senior - 4 stars
Stevie Brown Junior - 4 stars
Troy Woolfolk Sophomore - 3 stars
Obi Ezeh Sophomore - 3 stars (although he was a running back in hs)
Jonas Mouton Sophomore - 4 stars
Brandon Graham Sophomore - 5 stars
I realize most of these guys didn't play in these last two years, but in 2008 the defense was still bad and there's no way it should have been that bad. It was defninitely piss poor coaching. I'd kill for that defense now! Can't wait for Hoke to restore order.
February 11th, 2011 at 4:51 PM ^
You must not watch much cable news.
February 10th, 2011 at 5:34 PM ^
Dang ! ... Misopogon brought facts to the contest.....hope it helps, doubt it.
February 10th, 2011 at 8:19 PM ^
There will be a quiz on this material at the end of the thread.
February 10th, 2011 at 3:54 PM ^
I feel like I'm not being seen at the top of the replies, which is weird since people post there on unrelated things just to be seen.
I'm OP's MGoLegal Representation, and I urge you to stop negging. Bolivian is not where he belongs. He's just a kid, man. Read my pleas up top, spanks
February 10th, 2011 at 3:58 PM ^
So do you guys think Rodriguez will get another year or not?
February 10th, 2011 at 4:26 PM ^
Otherwise it might get boring around here
February 10th, 2011 at 6:57 PM ^
......but the prospects are not good, I hear. By the way, has anyone seen the Domino's corporate jet recently?
February 10th, 2011 at 4:00 PM ^
Query: What is more impressive:
A) The epic fail that was the OT?
-or-
B) The number of responses that the OT illicited?
February 10th, 2011 at 4:02 PM ^
It's like a competition between the RR lovers/haters, to see who can hold on too long the longest. Signing day has passed, this is a good time for people to post less.
February 10th, 2011 at 4:15 PM ^
That cupboard sure was stuffed full of experienced, BCS-level QB's. Threet sure has been tearing it up out west. And Sheridan just capped off a great career. And college football will never, ever see the likes of the Coner again. There sure were a lot of great fourth and fifth-year players starting in 2010, too. What a wonderful post by an extremely intelligent OP.
What's next, the "myth" that we put a man on the moon? Anyway, it's always a really classy move to attack someone who isn't even here anymore in a post that has absolutely fucking nothing to do with anything current on the football team.
February 10th, 2011 at 4:31 PM ^
For believing in the moon landing.
February 11th, 2011 at 7:43 PM ^
Interesting that you criticize people for "attacking" RR because he isn't here anymore yet you felt the need to take shots at Threet and Sheridan. Hypocrite.
February 10th, 2011 at 4:16 PM ^
I blame Tate Forcier. Wait, you say that there is no possible way he can be blamed for how bad the defense was before he even arrived on campus? Nope, I'm bored and any irrational thought that I have can be rationalized with enough thinking. I can't revel in the bright future, but only look at the past.
Hey, remember when Mike Hart fumbled in the Capitol One Bowl? That really sucked, huh? I was pissed. As a matter of fact, I am still pissed.
February 10th, 2011 at 4:25 PM ^
Did it really feel like a defensive issue in 2008 to you? How did that offense look with Threet and Sheridan? Who has ever made an argument about the defensive cupboard being bare? We just stopped recruiting defense so we either graduates it all out or they left early and 3 years later there was nothing left.
February 10th, 2011 at 4:35 PM ^
Are you suggesting that Michigan's defense wasn't bad in 2008? Rodriguez took a unit that finished second in the Big Ten in nearly every statistical category in 2007 and drove it off a cliff. In 2008, they finished tenth in Big Ten scoring defense, passing defense, rushing defense, and total defense. Immediately upon arriving at Michigan, Rodriguez abdicated at least 40% of his job (assuming offense is 40%, defense is 40% and special teams is 20%). The problems of the "decimated defense" only kicked in during the following years when the lack of recruiting, injuries, and attrition led to the debacles of 2009 and 2010.
February 10th, 2011 at 9:16 PM ^
You know what's funny about your post....you said Michigan was 2nd in nearly every category in 07. The only problem with that is you forgot about OOC games, in which we lost to Appy State and let up a fuckton of points against them, Oregon, and Florida. Also, if you actually read the decimated defense (or even the author's summary a couple posts above yours) you would see that it very much "kicked in" for the 08 season.
February 11th, 2011 at 7:26 PM ^
The argument still holds even if you include non-conference games. Michigan was 24th in scoring defense in 2007 and plummeted to 84th in 2008 despite playing a significantly tougher non-conference schedule in 2007. And the defense was hardly decimated in 2008. It was littered with 4 and 5 star players with at least a year of starting experience. Even if one takes into account the coaching change, that's doesn't explain the enormous dropoff. Had Michigan's defense been mediocre in 2008, say finishing in the middle of the conference, I could understand. But it didn't. It was pushed off a cliff by a head coach who brought not the "best staff in the country" as he loved to proclaim, but incompetence.
February 10th, 2011 at 4:49 PM ^
February 10th, 2011 at 5:08 PM ^
The OP is proving a point- just not the one he intends to prove: For some, what really mattered was the guy in the driver's seat.
There is absolutely nothing to gain from posting this stuff.
Please, get over your own personal resentment of a coach who hasn't been employed at UM in over 5 weeks...instead, please focus that energy on building the current program and HC up.
Next time you find yourself wondering how else you can prove that RR just didn’t cut it, ask yourself: 'DOES IT EVEN F**KING MATTER?!'
Here- I even went through the trouble of making you your very own personal flowchart to help with that last question:
Notice you can't choose 'Yes'...
February 10th, 2011 at 5:15 PM ^
This chart needs to be front page material.
February 10th, 2011 at 6:56 PM ^
So well done that I just got done pledging total allegiance to it aloud in front of frightened relatives. This pledge includes ceasing all responses to the coming onslaught either blaming Hoke for messing up the inevitable 10 win season of 2011 if he wins too few, or claiming he is an irrelevant ribbon cutter for what was already gift-wrapped him if he wins 10.
All that shit is addicting but is a total waste to post responses to. Not like anyone's mind is going to change.
Front runner for post of the month and for best avatar I hadn't seen yet.
February 10th, 2011 at 5:22 PM ^
You know, you're right - it IS bare! Who's with me for a run to Meijer?
February 10th, 2011 at 5:30 PM ^
February 10th, 2011 at 6:28 PM ^
I think you make a good point and find a possible middle ground. The cupboard wasn't bare, but maybe it was understocked. One reason for the youth you note is massive attrition (especially with defensive commits). We lost ~30% during the RR years (multiple reasons, some completely uncontrollable). It's nearly impossible to gain experience and depth when your kids aren't staying.
February 10th, 2011 at 9:19 PM ^
And how many of the recruits from the classes before 08 left before RR even got here? I bet you will be surprised if you actually do the research.
February 10th, 2011 at 9:27 PM ^
Sorry dude, you get nothing from me. You lied about my past statements and ignored my request that you provide a quote to back up your lie. There's no point in the back-and-forth with someone who spars with the invisible.
February 10th, 2011 at 11:54 PM ^
In other words, you are extremely biased against RichRod and if you actually took the time to research the reason your "facts" and "stats" are irrelevant then people might actually take anything you say seriously. I just figured that you spend so much time researching RichRod's shortcomings that you might actually want to research the end of Carr's tenure here and see the entire picture of the team when he took over. I was wrong.
Also, I don't really give a fuck if you think I lied because I don't have the time to look back through all of your garbage posts. The topic was RR and Michigan's rivalries and you questioned whether or not him caring about the rivalries more would have shown on the field in the wins category. You said it and I remember because I told you that was stupid as shit. If you want to find it, go for it. I don't really care.
February 11th, 2011 at 1:31 AM ^
I'm not going to bother with you. You make things up, pretend they were said and pounce upon those tales as proof of something. I'm not sure what. I have the feeling that I'm dealing with a child here. The twitchy arguments. The lack of logic. The "stupid as shit" and "I don't give a fuck". Have a good one, kid.
February 11th, 2011 at 3:55 AM ^
Hey, remember when you were all over Harbaugh's nuts and you said Hoke would be a huge step down from him? You kept hoping and wishing for Harbaugh. Then Hoke was hired. Now you are all over him like white on rice. Oh how things change.
Also, you are still stupid as shit.
February 10th, 2011 at 5:36 PM ^
I hate you. But I hate David Brandon more.
February 10th, 2011 at 6:02 PM ^
February 10th, 2011 at 6:29 PM ^
I think there's a bare cupboard sitting next to the tooth fairy in one of those Diet Dr. Pepper commercials...
February 10th, 2011 at 6:44 PM ^
If the argument was the cupboard was bare on defense, you just did an awesome job exploding the myth.
All the better for you if you've blotted out the memory, but.... in 2008 our defense was ok and our offense was historically bad.
February 10th, 2011 at 7:49 PM ^
What. the. shit.
seriously
February 10th, 2011 at 7:52 PM ^
I'm posting this while hiding in a bunker, trying to hide from the bombs....
I appreciated reading the OP and seeing that video clip & agree with the OP. Presented quickly and painlessly with all the pertinent info.
There, I did it.
February 10th, 2011 at 8:20 PM ^
I am wearing lab goggles. There's too much flame on this thread for my eyeballs.
February 10th, 2011 at 8:43 PM ^
I have been using this thread to keep warm - it's 5 degrees here.
February 10th, 2011 at 8:22 PM ^
The defense had more talent then they showed. The coaches did a poor job of coaching them.
February 10th, 2011 at 8:45 PM ^
shut your whore mouth. the d in 08 was decent but they were on the field for 7/8ths of the game. or do you forget about steve threet and nick sheridan and a true freshamn starting in the backfield?
February 10th, 2011 at 9:21 PM ^
February 10th, 2011 at 9:15 PM ^
Yeah, because Morgan Trent had an inate ability to put people on an island
February 10th, 2011 at 9:26 PM ^
Had RR hired a very good, 4-3 oriented defensive coordinator and let him put together his own staff. The offense wasn't going to be much better unless RR had been able to keep Mallet and Boren, maybe Arrington too. Even with both these chips in play, it wouldn't have been 9 win good. 6 or 7, maybe. Tops.
The end of the Henne/Hart/Long?Manningham era didn't leave us in a position to immediately compete for the Big 10 championship any way you cut it. That said, rebuilding didn't have to be as harsh as it was.
Had RR started off somewhat differently, and made a few different decisions (keeping the 5 star QB you've got rather than pursuing the one you want when you're at best the second suitor, for one), I think we'd have come through this period in better shape and he'd still be our coach.
February 10th, 2011 at 9:48 PM ^
and I now feel so enriched.
February 10th, 2011 at 10:25 PM ^
football players in a cupboard? That's just wrong. I'm appalled.
February 10th, 2011 at 10:25 PM ^
polity and wealth, God wants insurance so as to cover himself.
February 10th, 2011 at 10:49 PM ^
waitwut?!
February 10th, 2011 at 10:52 PM ^
People have obviously eviscerated this argument already (262 responses!), so I'll add my $.02 and move on - for all the talent you listed, they were almost exclusively on the defensive side of the ball and were seniors that frankly underperformed by-and-large. The offense had Steven Threet and Nick Sheridan at the helm, no RB that could stay on the field, and an offensive line in shambles. On defense, you had a good defensive line with a meh secondary and a gapping hole at LB. This was one of the least talented teams in recent memory before RR ever stepped foot in the room, and depth was a major issue that reared its ugly head over the past 3 years. I'm not saying RR inherritted a HS football team, but ignoring the dearth of talent because of some star ratings in just myopic.