CC: Can Rich Rod win here?

Yes

Sure. People who insist on rehashing this argument on the other hand...

OK....I'm regretting starting the CC hat trick here. 

If RR can begin to consistently beat the top teams in the Big Ten, then yes he will be able to get the necessary support.  Whether or not he gets the opportunity is another question.

I'm generally avoiding posting on  these interminable CC threads. But yes, I think RR can win here. And will win here. I am so, so, so looking forward to next year.

it's going to be any better for the next coach.  There is a large portion who will never forgive Jimmy Jacka** for throwing the program and university under the bus concerning academics.  The only other name that gets mentioned is Brady Hoke and I will puke if DB fires RR for a clown who hasn't been able to dominate at non BCS conferences.

Winning has a way of making people STFU.  In my opinion, this program is a year away from a breakout year if RR stays. 

--Harbaugh is likely a better coach for this level of program in this league.

--Rich can win here if winning means being less than what we were from 69 to 06. If it means being equal or more than that, hard to say. So far the results say no.

--I hear so many things about internal divisions and politics and Miles and Carr, but if Rich is not brought back it will be because of 15-21, and no wins against Big Ten teams with winning league records.

--There are large numbers of fans who don't like Rodriguez but might be moved to if there is progress shown against teams that matter.

--I wouldn't mind seeing him get another shot if the primary candidate can't be brought in.

You actually raise a very fair point.  At some point, the perception becomes the reality of a situation.  Even if we assume that RR is a good coach (which I believe to be true), you never get a second chance to make a first impression. 

Forgetting the outsider crap, his first impression on Michigan fans was a 3-9, Bowl-streak ending, transfer-laden, worst season in Michigan history.  And that's a long history.  Were this entirely his fault?  No, but some of the blame goes to him. 

He followed up this first impression with another stinker of a season, missing a bowl after a 5-0 start and just about swept in B10 play by teams including Illinois and Purdue. 

Was this year better?  Sure, but he still has not beaten MSU or OSU, and his B10 record against decent teams remains horrible.  We were completely humiliated by MSU, Wisco and OSU. 

I am not saying this to criticize RR or to re-hash arguments for firing him.  I am setting up the backdrop against which the majority of fans who I speak to will always view him. 

Does winning cure all?  Maybe, but RR has a huge hole to climb out of.  If we start out next season 5-0 will the fanbase get excited or will the fanbase (and the media, of course) say, "well, we were 5-0 each of the past two seasons.  wake me when we beat a real team."  I say the latter.

And, god forbit we lose one of our first 5 games against an inferior team - which happens to even the best of teams - the immediate outcry from fans will be deafening. 

I guess what I am getting at is that barring a perfect season (or something close), RR will be on such a short least that he is almost set up to fail.  I do not believe that it is possible to overcomethis perception after three years.  He is like the guy in the office who has been branded a slacker who does terrible work.  Even if he does good work on a project or two in a row, he will almost never shake the impression as a slacker who does crappy work.  He can lessen it, but it will never go away.

Sorry for the length of this repy.

What if JH comes in, some of our best offensive weapons leave and our D is set back again because of another NEW scheme, and we come to find out JH isn't able to turn things around? I personally would rather take a chance that RR is only a year away from having all of his players in place then have to go through another three years of "rebuilding" only to have this same problem again.

So many people on these boards seem to think that if we bring in a "Michigan Man" that everything will suddenly be better. As posted from a preivous article IF JH wants to coach at Michigan his time will come, there is no need to rush out and make a chance just for the sake of making a small portion of the fan base happy again to have a Michigan Man in charge. 

ugh

OP brings up some great points that were discussed before but good to talk about it again.  Sorry to all the people who are tired of these discussions.  Even if RR is back next year, it will be tough until he bests MSU or OSU.  RR will have to win all the other games, otherwise the pressure will get so tough that he may not overcome it. 

However, this part of what the Op stated bothers me and he might be right :

However, I have come to doubt whether the atmosphere at UM is conducive for RichRod to succeed here. There is so much bitterness and rancor stemming from the Carr-Miles fallout that I don't know if an "outsider" can win here.

This really is my chief concern with RR and it is of no fault of his own. This marriage may just not work because of internal issues at UM.

If I  take your words literally, the outsider part bothers me, because unless we become a coaching factory, it may be tough to get the best coaches.  I hope other coaches don't get scared off by that fact and choose not to coach here.  Perception is so important. 

However, I don't believe the outsider reason is entirely at fault.  RR clearly could have done a better job when he first got here.  There were some stumbles.  I wish the AD or Martin would have gotten him some handlers and helped him better prepare for his arrival here.  But, that is the past. 

end up being a legend here, yes, Rich-Rod can as well given the opportunity.

I have been on board. But im tired of argueing. Everyone including the rr supporters will rally around jh. Rr cant win here. Its killing him on the recruiting trail and half of our commits are looking elsewhere. The fat lady sings saturday.

pics a head coach could have.  It screams used car salesman.  It cries out for disrespect.  I thnk the wvu crap was the foundation for all the negative vibes surrounding him here.  I doubt anything he does can overcome all the piling on from the non-RR people and the "he's not the right fit here" thing will win out. 

JH will probably come in and unite the fanbase(alumni/donor/blueheair) and the wins will come whether it's next year or a coupe of years into his tenure.  The trick will be winning with "his" guys and not RR's guys.  That will be his transitiion.  I believe he can make the transition back to a less-spread offense easier than going to a spread from a traditional offense.  I thnik we'll end up seeing a version of what the Patriots run which in my opinion is more of a hybrid offense.

determined that he can't then I guess we will have to watch him win big somewhere else then.

/theinsanity

I think this argument is totally ridiculous, as if he's failing because there are people around the program who want him to. I 100% buy the injuries/bare cabinet/bad luck arguments but this is too much. Winning cures all

seriously?!??!

he won seven times this year alone!

Not if the media (Freep)  has anything to say about it.

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft; on the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them.  Keep believing.”

I think RR can win here. We all knew there would be some bumps in the road along the way but sometimes you have to take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward.

Seems like some Michigan fans would rather go back to the days of solid 8-9 win seasons every year. And that's fine I guess, but...

I'd rather take a few bad seasons in order to get to the point of 11-12 win seasons and BCS every year.

And I think we're just about over that hump. The worst is over. Keep RR!!

...that reads:

"it's not you Coach Rod, it's us"

Signed-

Old Blue

He's got the coach know-how to win, but I don't think the fan base has the stomach to withstand the process by an outsider. I truly believe a Carr or Schembechler assistant would not have been put through this and likely given a full 5-6 years to get things in order.