2005 season Michigan Football vs 2010 season
I was looking through the seasons of the past and came across some pretty interesting similiarities in these 2 seasons. First off, the record (7-5) and also it was Henne and Hart's sophmore seasons (Denard, Tate, V. Smith), and also there was a coaching shakeup that both coordinators left (Malone & Herrman). The changes in the staff, and the fact that we were returning many starters resulted in the 2006 season. Which was one of the most exciting seasons of Michigan football that I remember (aside from 97 ofcourse)
December 1st, 2010 at 4:36 PM ^
The 2005 team was a) essentially 7-4 because it was utterly jobbed in the Alamo Bowl and b) a team that played down to its opponents, losing close games it should not have - Minnesota and Wisconsin - while the 2010 has gotten absolutely train-wrecked by good Big Ten teams.
December 1st, 2010 at 4:54 PM ^
I remember that game. The offense started out okay but then couldn't do anything. Tons of 3 and outs and their lone second half score came on a flea flicker. The defense was exhausted from having spent so much time on the field and got pummeld by Wisky's running game in the 4th quarter.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:06 PM ^
I got garbage thrown at me and booed out of Camp Randall after that game. The flea flicker, oh, the flea flicker. I thought we had it.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:37 PM ^
Don't forget Max Martin's killer fumble in our territory in the fourth quarter, which set up a UW TD.
All five losses that year were 4th-quarter heartbreakers. On the flip side, we won two games in overtime (MSU, Iowa) and beat PSU on the last play of the game. Crazy year.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:46 PM ^
Ah fair enough, I probably shouldn't have included that one since I didn't really watch it. I was at my freshman year homecoming dance (needless to say the evening was ruined), huddled around a kid who had an ESPN mobile trying to figure what was going on
December 1st, 2010 at 6:12 PM ^
I think that game marked the first appearance of Tacopants.
December 1st, 2010 at 7:12 PM ^
If I remember right, Henne fell down on the would be hail mary attempt.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:14 PM ^
The '05 team lost 5 games by a combined 24 points. The '10 team lost to OSU by 30 points. There's no comparison.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:16 PM ^
I think you are wrong to be so dismissive with this comparison.
Yes, we were in every game in 2005. No blowout losses.
BUT we lost to Minnesota. MINNESOTA! We lost the jug...at home. They were trying to run out the clock to go to OT, busted a 50 yard run. And kicked the game winning FG. That was much worse than any loss this season IMO. Penn State is the only thing that comes close.
We also lost at home to an ND team that we should not have lost to. I don't care what their final record was. We fumbled the ball inside the 5 yard line TWICE in that game and lost by 7.
We lost to Wisky on a QB draw by Stocco/Sorgi/generic slow white guy, with little time left on the clock. Our defense lost contain repeatedly in that game. Letting the RB get the edge every single time.
We blew a 9 point (?) 4th quarter lead to OSU...again at home.
Now I know we got blown out this year by 3 11-1 teams, and struggled heavily against 7-5 PSU and Iowa. But that does not mean that a 2005>2006 type improvement is impossible.
I'm not saying next year's defense is going to be like the 2006 defense. But overall as a team, I think we could make a solid jump up, while other teams above us are experiencing some major losses. Timing can be very important in college football. Imagine if OSU didn't have their best team the same season we did. We would have cruised into the MNC and who knows what would have happened against Florida. Maybe we catch the Big Ten in a relative down year next season and make some noise.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:33 PM ^
Minnesota was 7-5 in 05 with Maroney running the ball...not exactly Minnesota of 2010. Cupito threw all over OSU that year, 400 yds IIRC.
Now, Ohio State 05...blowing a lead to that team (sucks for you obviously) but is nothing to be ashamed of. That team had a future HT winner at QB, 3 (!!!) NFL first round picks starting at WR. OSU 05 beats UM 2010 by more than the 2010-2010 matchup IMO.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:57 PM ^
1st off.. 2005 team was 7-4 in the regular season.no extra OOC patsie.
2nd..and this is a big 1..we never lost to a team where it was clear they had 2 much talent and "experience" for us. Every game we lost we had blown late leads. We never said...hey we expected to lose that game. And by the way that Minnesota team was pretty dam good. I think they led the nation in rushing that year with Maroney and Marion Barber..we needed a miricle comeback to beat them the year before as well so yea skip the"it's Minnesota" crap.
December 1st, 2010 at 7:57 PM ^
why did you put experience in quotes?
December 1st, 2010 at 6:38 PM ^
Most of this is in response to the OP.
As many posters have mentioned, every game we lost in 2005 was close, many of which were on fluky plays like the repeated fumbles in the worst possible places against ND, the insane scramble completion by Troy Smith. Those crazy plays happen with young kids, but that season were we on the losing end of an abnormal amount of them.
Just because the circumstances made the Minnesota game really suck, doesn't mean it indicated that our team was any worse than what it was. Statistics have shown time and again that opponent-adjusted margin of victory is much more indicative of a team's quality and thus future success than W-L records.
Sagarin's predictor rating (which is adjusted margin of victory) had us as the #7(!) team in the country at the end of 2005 (and we also played the 3rd toughest schedule in the country). So when we returned mostly everyone, the 2006 season wasn't really a surprise at all.
This year, on the other hand, we are ranked 53rd because we were soundly beaten in all losses and won all of our games within a touchdown. We were on the winning end of plays like "the bounce" against ILL which probably saved RR's job.
And just looking at the players, we had highly recruited and/or NFL defensive players galore on that rosteer. We had the following guys RETURNING: Jamar Adams, Crable, Leon Hall, David Harris, Woodley, Morgan Trent, Terrance Taylor...wow the list goes on. I can't even look at that roster anymore.
How many NFL or even borderline NFL players will be on our defensive roster next year? Martin probably (last of of Lloyd's recruits) and maybe Demens? Maybe one of the many 3 star DBs will come out as draftable? Maybe Woolfolk's speed gets him a shot like Trent?
The best case scenario for next year is a top 5 offense that will have the turnover situation under control and a defense that isn't one of the 50 worst in FBS, which would be a pretty big improvement. That'll get us to 8-10ish wins. Of course, I'm rooting for the close games to go our way and be an "overachieving" team again, but another 2006 is not within the realm of reasonable possibility.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:19 PM ^
Had far more talent and experience across the board than this 2010 team has. They clearly kept it together better against good teams than this year's squad has, but a let-down to Minnesota was pretty ugly at the time. Besides a good (and also quite lucky) game against PSU, they had no great wins. The MSU team they beat 34-31 in OT lost to Minnesota that year by 23 points.
In 2005 there were 3 underclassmen starters (and it's important to note that Henne was a second year starter) on offense and 8 in the two deep. In 2010 there are 5 underclassmen starters and 11 in the two deep. In 2005 there was 1 underclassmen starter on defense and 5 in the two deep. In 2010 there are 6 underclassmen starters and 12 in the two deep.
As shown in 2005, even a pretty experienced (and talented) team can go 7-5. And also remember even the 2006 defense gave up 42 and 32 to the good offenses they played that season. People were disappointed following the 2005 and 2006 years but they didn't care bc we had beat a mediocre to bad MSU team 5 years in row. Now that MSU is actually a good team everyone is going ape.
All in all it's very hard to field a good football team these days and to me it looks like the 2011 team is in position to take a step in that direction. Heck we will have the returing Big Ten Offensive POY. That's a heck of an award. Let's give this current team a chance what do you say?
December 1st, 2010 at 5:45 PM ^
Let's hear it for the POY!
Where is my head at when your post made me think of this?
EDIT: This got stuck in my head. Sorry if that happened to anyone else. I had to change the lyrics.
My QB he dont talk sweet
He ain't got much to say
But he loves it, loves it, loves it
I know that he loves to play
And maybe he don't shoe tie
But I dont really mind
Because every time he tucks it near
I just want to cheer
Lets hear it for the POY
Lets give the POY a hand
Lets hear it for my QB
You know you got to understand
Whoa, maybe he's no Jackson, Bo
But he's my football one-man show
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
Let's hear it for the POY
December 1st, 2010 at 6:38 PM ^
Whoa, maybe he's no Jackson, Bo
But he's my football one-man show
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
Let's hear it for the POY
That is awesome.
December 1st, 2010 at 7:16 PM ^
The 2005 season included victories over Penn State ("New Math" classic), Michigan State and Iowa. Moreover, while it's never enjoyable to lose to OSU, at the least the game was competitive. None of that can be said about the 2010 season.
December 1st, 2010 at 4:36 PM ^
is actually a very intersting analysis. And one that inspires hope.
I think that two of the things that really translate into a winning season are: stability and upperclassmen.
Prior to LC's retirement, we regularly had both ,and regularly had 8+ wins. The 2005 season was probably the first time that we did not have both, and even with a stable system and much continuity in the team, we went 7-5.
This will be the first season since 2007 that we will have upperclassmen starting (and backing up) at the overwhelming majority of positions. This cannot be underrated (see MSU 2008 vs. MSU 2010, and Wisco 2008/9 vs. Wisco 2010).
December 1st, 2010 at 4:41 PM ^
2005 was, at the time, an extremely frustrating season. And I had a stroke every week because it seemed all our wins came in the final minute and all our losses came in the final minute. Injuries piled up to an insane level that year as well.
The major difference between that season and 2010 was that we actually had a chance to win in all our losses during 05. Mike Hart was knocked out of the Notre Dame game on the second or third play and we played flat the rest of the way in a 7 point loss. The Alamo Bowl was handed to Nebraska with the worst officiating I have ever seen in a college football game. Henne and Hart had a ton of more playing time under their belts as freshmen than Denard and Roundtree had.
I remember 2005 was the year I had finally had it with Jim Herrman. After the opener against Northern Illinois, I walked out of the stadium calling him every word in the book and I wanted him fired. This was despite the fact we had only given up 17 points. It's sad that watching our defense now makes me miss Herrman.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:02 PM ^
Who I miss from 2005's defense:
Alan Branch, Woodley, Gabe Watson, Pierre Woods, David Harris, Prescott Burgess, Leon Hall.
December 1st, 2010 at 4:41 PM ^
There was a diary on this from a couple of days ago. This isn't meant to be one of those jerkish "read the board before you post" type comments, but instead I think you may be interested in this.
December 1st, 2010 at 4:44 PM ^
December 1st, 2010 at 4:51 PM ^
didn't he miss most of the 2005 season with an injury??
December 1st, 2010 at 5:03 PM ^
Their success was built on defense and what may have been the best defensive line in the country. They also had future NFL Pro Bowl caliber seniors at every level of the defense in Woodley, Harris, and Hall. They returned almost the entire offense the next season and crapped out at 7 wins again. The returning offense in 06 was stocked with talent, but they had a great year because of the defense.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:46 PM ^
You mean the defense that gave up 42 points to OSU and 32 to USC and 26 points to Ball State????
December 1st, 2010 at 6:32 PM ^
The D gave up:
3 to both NW and Indy
6 to Iowa
7 to Vandy
10 to PSU (7 of which on a BS late screen call)
13 to Wisky and Sparty
14 to Minny (7 of which was after they built a big lead)
December 1st, 2010 at 7:45 PM ^
but the simple fact is, whether you side with the '03 or '06 D, the best defenses produced the best seasons of the last ten years. The scores you mentioned were more a product of the coaching getting exposed than the players on the field, any one of which I would love to have out there right now.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:01 PM ^
Thanks a lot, internet.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:10 PM ^
My head hurts so much. Is it so wrong to feel exasperated at the end of my rope and to just today want Michigan football "back". Unending Harbaugh posts, bad defenses, GERG...it's midweek but maybe some beers are indicated.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:11 PM ^
the rope brother.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:13 PM ^
very close...
This thread is like carrying real looking water pistols in the Demilitarized zone.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:16 PM ^
against penn state and proved we could play with anybody.
December 1st, 2010 at 6:12 PM ^
That 2005 PSU team returned 18 starters from 2004, when they went 4-7(2-6) and it's best win was over a 5-5 MSU team at the end of the year (proving nothing).
December 1st, 2010 at 5:21 PM ^
Burgess missing the angle as the Gophers try to run out the clock. The difference between 05 and 10 is simple, in 05 we had a coaching staff that had a history of slowing down Big Ten offenses and executing on offense so we could put up enough points to win.
Right now we have a head coach who's looking at his 3rd DC in 4 years and has people talking about replacing his entire defensive staff, not just his DC. Oh, and we also had future all pro defensive players.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:27 PM ^
Right now we have a head coach who's looking at his 3rd DC in 4 years and has people talking about replacing his entire defensive staff, not just his DC. Oh, and we also had future all pro defensive players.
December 1st, 2010 at 5:48 PM ^
December 1st, 2010 at 7:15 PM ^
We were supposed to be good in '05. We started the season ranked 4th or 5th. I had a bad feeling after attending the opener that year. We beat Northern Illinois 33-17, which is not a lot, and I remember the offense starting to look somewhat incompetent.