This is your future under Jim Harbaugh
Tired Harbaugh defensive players faking injuries to slow down better teams:
Ranked, one- to three-loss teams losing decisively to mobile QBs under more sophisticated offenses:
We are all frustrated with our won-loss record under Rich Rodriguez. But if we can get the defense fixed, we have a shot to be the next Oregon instead of the next Stanford. Kudos to Harbaugh for doing so much at Stanford, with their admissions standards et al. - not trying to downplay that achievement. But it is far from clear that he would have that record if he was playing our schedule every year. I have spent a lifetime as a Michigan fan rooting for 9-3 and 8-4 and the occasional 10-2 teams that almost always lost when it counted the most.
I, for one, am willing to go through this difficult period in order to take our program to a level where we are consistently contending for MNC titles, rather than winning Big Ten titles and losing bowl games. I am not nostalgic for that era of consistent disappointment, and I dread consigning another generation of Michigan fans to the same fate.
November 27th, 2010 at 10:42 PM ^
Pete Caroll is in Seattle and still trying to dislodge Harbaugh's foot from his ass.
What's your deal?
November 27th, 2010 at 10:51 PM ^
But USC has been in decline over that period. Here is Harbaugh's record against Oregon:
2007: Oregon 55, Stanford 31
2008: Oregon 35, Stanford 28
2009: Stanford 51, Oregon 42
2010: Oregon 52, Stanford 31
Do you expect a different result next year when Andrew Luck graduates?
November 27th, 2010 at 11:03 PM ^
Okay so Harbaugh, a young HC vs Chip Kelly's offensive (Chip Kelly took over as OC in 2007 at Oregon). Now let us consider.
Chip has been coaching in 1990, he does whatever it takes to field talent (Blount let back on the team, Masoli given six million chances, etc). Harbaugh meanwhile has the smallest program of the PAC10. The Vanderbilt or Northwestern of the PAC10 basically vs the emerging and unethical powerhouse of Oregon.
Harbaugh meanwhile loses by three scores in his first year (assuming 2 points), one score in his second year, wins and then loses by 3 scores against a machine like Oregon offense.
Clearly Harbaugh sucks.
As for the Luck comment, I mean isn't that a moot point. Didn't they go to hell after Heisman finalist Toby Gerhadt graduated? I'm sure actually recruiting replacement players will never occur to a shitty coach like Harbaugh.
November 28th, 2010 at 12:47 AM ^
Stanford has a much, much bigger football tradition than Vanderbilt and Northwestern. Come on.
I thought Kelly handled the Blount situation just fine, by the way. The kid punched someone who probably deserved to be punched in the heat of the moment and lost just about his whole senior season. However, he stayed and worked with the team and was rewarded with a bit of redemption and was eventually able to go to the NFL, where he has done well so far.
Kelly did what was best for that kid and I applaud that. It was a good teaching job.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:04 PM ^
Well, if we are making generalizations about a coach based on one seasonal matchup, then I offer you this:
2004: Ohio State 37, Michigan 21
2005: Ohio State 25, Michigan 21
2006: Ohio State 42, Michigan 39
2007: Ohio State 14, Michigan 3
2008: Ohio State 42, Michigan 7
2009: Ohio State 21, Michigan 10
2010: Ohio State 37, Michigan 7
So this means that Lloyd Carr and Rich Rodriguez are terrible coaches?
November 27th, 2010 at 11:18 PM ^
I'm a RR supporter and I liked Carr, so I hate to rip on either of them. Rather than making this RR vs someone I have a better idea. Let's name a coach who doesn't have some loses in his closet?
Considering some big names. Mack Brown got torn apart this year, Meyer isn't doing well. Saban just choked on a 24 point lead. Caroll is in the NFL and avoiding NCAA cheating scandals. Tressel gets his ass kicked by the SEC.
So in an attempt to avoid RR vs X debates, I want to see Communist Football cite some coaches who doesn't have some ugly losses.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:21 PM ^
I agree, that was my point. Great coaches will have some losses and we shouldn't discount Harbaugh if he struggled against the #1 team in the country.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:26 PM ^
I'm looking to see improvement in our defense, and like most RR supporters am fine with cleaning house on the DC side of the staff.
My point is this: if our goal at Michigan is to win MNCs, it's far from obvious that Harbaugh will get us there. Sure, Harbaugh would do consistently well -- but "consistently well" isn't what we are shooting for.
The tough few years we've had while transitioning to the RR-style offense have been difficult to bear. But the guy deserves a chance to see what he can do with upperclassmen on both sides of the ball.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:52 PM ^
Isn't is it obvious Harbaugh will get us there...but is it more or less obvious he will rather than Rich.
November 28th, 2010 at 12:24 AM ^
I agree with you, and visions of shred and spread 5.0 still dance in my head, but I don't think most (sane) people back Harbaugh just as a magic silver bullet. Even those of us who think the program is headed (slowly) in the right direction can acknowledge the appeal of one of our golden boy quarterbacks coming back to coach after working what I consider nothing short of a miracle with a program like Stanford. After watching a decent number of their games this year, he is a truly talented coach and I would not be surprised to see him as one of those NFL legendary coaches someday. Ah, but if he had been at this level of experience 4 years ago and available when Bill Martin wasn't at yacht shows.
November 28th, 2010 at 2:42 PM ^
Actually there's a difference between Lloyd's loses to Tressel and RR's. Lloyd lost consistently to Tressel despite fielding teams with equal talent. RR is losing to Tressel with teams that are significantly inferior in talent. If you want to blame RR for the recruiting classes of 2006 and 2007, ok, but there you have it.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:05 PM ^
I wonder how Michigan would fare against Oregon...
November 27th, 2010 at 11:15 PM ^
That is one stupid arguement... lol...
Oregon's team has been sitting in a MUCH better position than Stanford's for a while... so the fact Harbough even got one from them in that four year stretch... is a great coaching feat...
Harbough actually occasionally won a game he wasn't supposed to win at Stanford... actually he did it quite frequently... with a lot less talent... something that Rich Rod has done... what? Once against Wisconson in 07'?
And Harbough was the beginning of USC's decline... kicking them in the arse when they were #1... that was such a huge victory... it showed that USC was vulnerable for the first time in a while. Harbough wins big games. He did it at Michigan once, and he can do it again...
About a decade ago OSU hired an Ohio guy that promised big things because he understood OSU football... maybe it's time Michigan did the same...
November 27th, 2010 at 11:31 PM ^
But none of them actually address my argu(e)ment.
Yes, Harbaugh is a good coach. It's great what he's done at Stanford.
But what is his ceiling? Is his ceiling MNCs? I haven't heard a single pro-Harbaugh person make the persuasive case that he is. Instead, I've heard a lot of tirades about the last three years etc. etc.
If you're going to throw the program into disarray with another disruptive coaching change, you'll need better than that.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:43 PM ^
the middle of the Big Ten. You can't play for the MNC if you don't win in your conference.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:49 PM ^
Then he should be fired.
Hopefully we can agree that we are far from establishing that, however.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:56 PM ^
That, or Rich as a National Championship coach at Michigan (since that's the standard you hold Harbaugh to).
November 28th, 2010 at 1:34 AM ^
Given that we already are a middling Big Ten team with a comically depleted defense and an offense led by a true sophomore, I take the over.
November 28th, 2010 at 1:43 AM ^
But that means we are closer to being great than the status quo. Interesting.
November 28th, 2010 at 9:01 AM ^
7-5 is closer to 12-0 than 0-12, right? I'd say 7-5 this year is pretty middling with an upward trajectory.
November 28th, 2010 at 5:49 PM ^
5-7 than 12-0.
November 28th, 2010 at 12:10 PM ^
Think about it.
November 28th, 2010 at 1:47 PM ^
While I get what you guys are saying, its not as simple as wins and losses. Everyone who plays michigan, regardless of our record, gets "up" for Michigan. can you make the same argument for stanford. I hardly think that, no matter how good they are, there are many teams who look at them on the schedule and circle the day as a big game. There are programs around the country who do have that kind of status but Stanford is hardly one of them. also, you cannot CANNOT discount the effect of having a team that has major contributions coming not from their talented but inexperienced youngsters but from their juniors and seniors. i said it in another thread and i'll say it again here. OSU had 24 Seniors they were sending off in their last home game. 24. they may not all be starting but the effect experience has on any team is profound. You cannot have that kind of an effect on a team without having those guys around. Changing coaches just means starting over (again)from scratch in a situation where you don't know yet whether you need to or not.
November 28th, 2010 at 1:53 PM ^
...especially considering we haven't really had progress this season (if my friends and I had got together a team we'd have probably beaten three of the teams Michigan did this season, those 3 being UMass, BG, and Indiana). The days of 4 year plans and the like for Division I football ended with the days of tailfins on cars.
November 28th, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^
Harbough won a national championship at San Diego. RR hasn't won one on any level. Your argument that RR's potential winning future championships is greater doesn't make sense.
<br>
<br>Harbough is not equivalent to Lloyd Carr. He is a much more aggressive coach. Maybe a little more like Moeller when the offensive game plan was play to win and score at every chance instead of conservative playcalling / playing not to lose and allowing lesser teams to stay close.
November 28th, 2010 at 7:04 AM ^
It does make sense. Rich Rod has had more success at this level of coaching. San Diego is a nice story for Harbaugh but he hasn't even won a conference championship at the FBS level. Rich Rod has and he has also won bowl games, something that Harbaugh failed to accomplish despite having a very talented team. Harbaugh is nowhere near the accomplished coach that Rich Rod is.
November 28th, 2010 at 8:32 AM ^
Agreed, but I think we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss those lower level championships. Tressel won at least two at YSU...
November 29th, 2010 at 5:27 PM ^
won 4 NC's at YSU.
vs. Marshall twice, Boise State and McNeese State.
December 4th, 2010 at 2:13 PM ^
Are you delusional? So its fair to say Stanford is a solid school, but when it comes to football its not nearly as big time as michigan (despite 3 yrs of shit). So sayin a coach who has a 11-1 record at stanford, can't make the ceiling natty's is like saying stanford is better then michigan. We have better facilities, a beautiful stadium, and have a big time history. It would be so much easier to recruit, so you can only imagine given a year or two plus the talent on the roster that his team would have a very solid possiblity of being even more talented then his 11-1 team at stanford. Don't get me wrong i'll admit im on the fence, and just want to see michigan get back to prominence, but you can make arguements for both and thats an arguement for harbaugh. He has some serious swagger, and would definetly shake up the big ten. Lets be real alot of ppl on here dont want to even think of the possiblity of Harbaugh coaching here, but it is in all reality a serious possiblity so its not dumb when people give reasons why he could succeed here too. O and the what's your deal thing with carrol was awesome too. Go Blue!
November 28th, 2010 at 4:40 AM ^
He wouldn't have to play Oregon if he coached at Michigan.
November 28th, 2010 at 12:38 PM ^
Not sure I understand your logic.
November 30th, 2010 at 12:58 PM ^
*****THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POST TO READ BECAUSE IT'S 'THE' TRUTH*****
#1) Michigan is NOT Jim Harbaugh's 'dream job.' He wants an NFL job, because him and his brother are so competitive. SD, SF, Oak and Car (and maybe even Dal and Min) are all going to be fighting over him this off-season.
#2) Dave Brandon is going to be doing absolutely everything he can to convince him to come to Michigan over the next month.
#3) In all likelihood, Rich Rod will be brought back (signing a two year extension after the bowl game), and Greg Robinson will be replaced (along with the 3-3-5). Ron English is supposedly an early DC candidate.
November 30th, 2010 at 4:14 PM ^
*****THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POST TO READ BECAUSE IT'S 'THE' TRUTH*****
#1) Michigan is NOT Jim Harbaugh's 'dream job.' He wants an NFL job, because him and his brother are so competitive. SD, SF, Oak and Car (and maybe even Dal and Min) are all going to be fighting over him this off-season.
#2) Dave Brandon is going to be doing absolutely everything he can to convince him to come to Michigan over the next month.
#3) In all likelihood, Rich Rod will be brought back (signing a two year extension after the bowl game), and Greg Robinson will be replaced (along with the 3-3-5). Ron English is supposedly an early DC candidate.
November 27th, 2010 at 10:45 PM ^
I'm going to go on a limb right now and say I hate everyone right now, supporter or hater of any FBS coach right now.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:03 PM ^
Great Post. First time I laughed today.
November 27th, 2010 at 10:45 PM ^
Whether you want Harbaugh as the coach or not, I don't care. But would everybody stop hating on him. He is an alum, a michigan man, a starting quarterback over Bo. This is just getting annoying. Does anybody want me to start an I hate rick leach thread, maybe a mike hart one. Damn, show a fellow wolverine some respect.
November 27th, 2010 at 10:55 PM ^
“Michigan is a good school and I got a good education there,” he said, “but the athletic department has ways to get borderline guys in and, when they’re in, they steer them to courses in sports communications. They’re adulated when they’re playing, but when they get out, the people who adulated them won’t hire them.”
Booooo. Plus he is a drunk. Moeller got fired for something less than what this hothead did.
from the AP: ENCINITAS, Calif. - University of San Diego football coach Jim Harbaugh was arrested early Sunday on a charge of drunken driving after being stopped for running a stop sign.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/9902673/
Winning at Stanford means what exactly?
November 27th, 2010 at 11:14 PM ^
Part of me hope he becomes to coach just to piss people like you off.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^
You like self-flagellation. I'm not an angry old man. You don't have to get off my lawn. I'm 25 lol. But really what if Dantonio was a candidate for the job or someone else who slighted Michigan? I just question if this dude is actually stable enough to coach at Michigan.
My proposal if there is a switch is Luke Fickell. Ohio State Co-D coordinatior. Not Harbaugh.
November 30th, 2010 at 7:38 PM ^
Ok then "dude" why do you get so freaked out when somebody says something negative against michigan? maybe if you actually listen to what he's saying, you might actually agree with some of it. He wants michigan to hold it self to a higher standerd. so should you. The defensive stance that nobody can say anything bad about us because we're michigan, that hasn't been working for us too well lately.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:30 PM ^
Of course, if it actually happens, the hardcore anti-Harbaugh clique will all go back on everything they've posted, saying something like. "You know, I wasn't sure about Harbaugh, but he won me over in the initial press conference!"
November 27th, 2010 at 11:40 PM ^
But why is it Harbaugh or bust? Seems like the debate before the Patriot Act was passed in Congress.
There are a lot of emotional decisions to be judge, jury and excutioner on Rich Rod and Harbaugh.
I want to see the numbers and whether he is an alcoholic still?
November 28th, 2010 at 8:47 AM ^
November 29th, 2010 at 5:54 PM ^
can guarantee you that
November 30th, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^
Harbaugh needs to undouche himself before I could stand to see him coach here.
How can you forgive his comments about Michigan unless he asks for forgiveness in the first place? Besides, he's just dug that hole deeper with his "I would've gone to Stanford if they'd offered me" BS.
Damn this season.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:36 PM ^
and a part of me hopes Rich meets up against Jimmy and slaughters him in the rose bowl just to piss fans like you off.
November 28th, 2010 at 7:31 PM ^
The problem with that scenario is it requires winning the Big Ten championship.
December 5th, 2010 at 9:28 AM ^
which Rich will do starting next season.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:23 PM ^
The guy sure isn't afraid to shake things up and get after his opponents, even if it's his alma mater. If you ask me, UM could use a bit of that attitude.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:35 PM ^
I agree. I like the attitiude. But if we rewind back 3 years, I think the same argument was made about Rich.
"Cavalier" "Offensive Outlaw" "Spread n Shred Innovator"
But if someone takes a shit on my school, I'm going to call them on that.