More useless conjecture about the future of the program/ Les Miles
I wasn't sure what to name this thread or if I even should post it but I wanted to humbly throw some ideas out there that will hopefully create some good dialogue. Of course I'd like to open by saying this year isn't over yet and I haven't completely given up on Coach Rod. We still have a solid opportunity to beat Purdue (they are so depleted on offense) and could pull out an upset this week at home in a shootout..Illinois is riding high but isn't nearly as good as our previous home opponents Iowa/ MSU right now (in any facet). JMHO
Being in Ann Arbor is an advantage so anything is possible. If we hit 7-5 then we actually still reach reasonable pre-season expectations. So there's that...
Now, with regard to the future if we do lose out or change coaches anyway for whatever reason, I personally wouldn't want Jim Harbaugh to be the first guy we go to. Hell I'm not sure he is my second choice. I'm sure he is a trendy pick right now but so was RR in 2007.
Do we need a Michigan man? IDK...would it help to have one? Most definitely. It would be great to have a guy who played here, understands the Big Ten and learned from Bo first hand. It would also be great to not hear bitching about not having a"Michigan Man" for three more years. Nonetheless, Harbaugh is not my guy and I don't think he should be yours.
The one name that should be on the top of the list, and isn't being mentioned as much as it should be is Coach Les Miles. Consider/reconsider his resume for a moment. He has long standing ties to MIchigan. He is 58-15 at LSU with a good chance to finish strong this season. "Damn strong"! He won a national title, & no matter how you slice it he still won. When you think about how consistently good LSU has been in the best conference in the country it's quite impressive. LSU is also in the SEC West which is even tougher.
Miles seems to gain his success with really good defenses and by recruiting the best skill available and adapting to their skill set. One can criticize his gambling tendency on the field..but more often than not he gets it done. You could also criticize their offense, however their OC at LSU is Gary Crowton, which of course you should remember from the 2006 Oregon Ducks. Crowton has experience with Dennis Dixon and the spread/zone-read stuff which would really be a nice transition for us.
All in all, the resume, familiarity with high expectations and tough competition, great support staff and recruiting connections to the south make Miles a fantastic candidate for our program. The transition would be smooth and he has proven more than Harbaugh at this point...both are Michigan guys.
I'm rootin' for Michigan and for Rich Rod, but if we decide to make a change and LSU fans are sick of Miles I say bring him on. I'd be more than happy to have him!
November 1st, 2010 at 11:48 PM ^
1000. Please, 1000.
I mean seriously, do you think that Les Miles is a good coach? Do you watch college football?
November 1st, 2010 at 11:57 PM ^
You can't un-see it.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:01 AM ^
Please stop. Think of the children.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:27 PM ^
This is the problem with the blind faith to the elusive "Michigan Man." Bo wasn't when he started. Yost wasn't when he started. Most of us on this board probably weren't until we got to Ann Arbor either. Les learned from Bo. Great. Doesn't make you a great coach. Les couldn't find a ride out of town fast enough when Lloyd got the job. Where's the loyalty there? Michigan Men are groomed and nutured. They aren't grown on trees.
Les Miles may be the worst game day coach going right now and no one, not even the vest, gets less out of his offensive talent. Have you watched the last 2 minutes of a close LSU game...? It's a whole different kind of exciting. Even Pat Forde has repeatedly said Les has made his own deal with the devil - and there is more evidence in that than any Rosenberg piece o'crap.
Keep Rod. Get rid of GERG at the end of the season. Learn some tackling. My 2 year old wraps up better every night I get home.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:50 PM ^
LSU fans would trade Miles for Rodriguez in a heartbeat. I still think RichRod should be given his 4th year that every coach should get to fully implement their system. If there isn't significant improvement in 2011, then I would be fine with a change.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:57 PM ^
The entire thing was written in the context of Brandon making a change..which is a possibility. I'm not calling for anyone's head
November 2nd, 2010 at 7:43 AM ^
Grillz, you've got balls. Or, maybe, ballz. Not sure which ...
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:09 AM ^
Implementing his system isn't the problem. He has his system up and running, and Michigan has the #2 offense in the country. The problem is the god awful defense. And the general reaction in the wake of PSU is that maybe Rich Rod doesn't know how to delegate the defensive responsibilities properly. (Granted, some may consider running a 3-3-5 as part of his system and may lump that in with the "get his system in place" issue.)
I agree that Rich Rod should have at least one more year, but it's not a "system" issue.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:22 AM ^
It's going to happen. If, and, (sadly) when Michigan relieves Rich Rod of his duties he will likely move to another high profile program, and he will likely succeed. This is just how the world works, I think.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:41 PM ^
I have a friend who is an LSU alum and there was some chatter down there about Michigan plucking Les Miles from them after this season on talk radio. He said there would be a party in the streets and everyone down there would love to pull a switch-a-roo with Michigan.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:51 PM ^
November 1st, 2010 at 11:52 PM ^
Indeed. As has been writ ad nausem, Herr Schembechler was himself from Ohio, and not a Michigan man.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:55 PM ^
I am annoyed by it as well. I'm only repeating the meme to make a point that he would be a fantastic choice and shut up the critics
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:01 AM ^
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:27 AM ^
"I think you misinterpreted my interpretation"
Impossible!!! Oh wait wait...yeah it's possible.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:05 AM ^
No. We can't retire the term, but we can retire the overuse of it.
I'm watching SportsCenter highlights of MNF.... "Mike Hart..... young dude doing his J.O.B. .... He's a Michigan Man!"
Makes me proud.
But I do agree that people overuse the shit out of it, particular with regard to our coaches past, present, and future..
November 2nd, 2010 at 1:06 AM ^
As far as I know, Michigan Man (or Woman) isn't specifically reserved for athletes.
It is a title bestowed upon any in our Michigan family. A Michigan man is one who exhibits a life long commitment to our beloved University; one who has integrity, decency, and excellence... on or off the field.
As Yost said in 1942, "But do let me reiterate the spirit of Michigan. It is based upon a deathless loyalty to Michigan and all her ways; an enthusiasm that makes it second nature for Michigan men to spread the gospel of their university to the world's distant outposts; a conviction that nowhere is there a better university, in any way, than this Michigan of ours."
I refer to those I know from school as Michigan Men (or Women) regardless of their major, GPA, number of varsity letters, etc.
Anyone who suggests the term is overused is channeling their inner Drew Sharp -- that's some shit he'd say.
I'd say a more accurate description is people use it out of context... Yost was from West Virginia but nobody gave him any grief... Bo was an outsider in 1968 too. You don't have to be from Michigan to be a Michigan Man... just be committed to the University; and I think RR is.
I also saw Sportscenter tonite... loved the commentary about Mike Hart!
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:40 AM ^
amen. one is not born a michigan man, but becomes one through great deed. may we all strive to be michigan men....
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:23 PM ^
Ok, that's fair. I suppose I did mean misuse to some degree, rather than overuse. But by overuse, I meant that nearly every time something negative about RR happens, we usualy hear the term 'Michigan Man' and that RR is not one. I'm not saying I agree with these folks, just that they seem to love throwing 'MM' out there as part of their argument/story/opinion. Hence my choice of the word "overuse".
So a serious question for you.... based on your first paragraph (which I assume is your own thought on what a Michigan Man/Woman is), and the Yost quote:
Is Jim Harbaugh a Michigan Man?
November 3rd, 2010 at 5:04 PM ^
I would say Jim is. Sure, he pissed a lot of people off with his comments about the current state of academics. But he was right. He could have just gone about it better. But someone who guarantees a win against tUoOS, under Bo’s watch, doesn’t necessarily have a filter now does he?
If Jim didn't care about Michigan, I don't think he would have said it (I also think he wouldn't have said it the *way* he did if Bo was still alive too). Believe it or not, for him to say what he did, it took courage. It would have been easier for him to say nothing if he didn’t care. But he took a risk because he demands excellence. That’s a MM right there!
I think Jim was upset with the leadership and vision in the athletic department. I cannot say I blame him one bit. I think it's fair to say Jim's emotions influenced, if just a little bit, what he said -- and what he said wasn't necessarily a shot at the school but just some aspects into how the place was being run.
Fortunately, we have Dave Brandon now (and not because DB is a MM but rather the dude is just plain smart) and I do think RR could be a good fit for Michigan (but that last part is a whole other thread itself). For all the drama, at least RR isn't Dantonio -- from the countdown clock and felons on the team -- tacky.
BTW, I once heard someone say a MM is what Sparty strives to be. I'm sure they were just kidding. But in the case of Dantonio, that sure is true. That assclown is more worried about Michigan than taking care of his own house.
November 3rd, 2010 at 7:14 PM ^
I think I have a different interpretation than you on Jim Harbaugh's actions. Fair enough. Real question. Do you feel he should have to apologize for the "way" he said things? And if so, why hasn't he?
November 3rd, 2010 at 7:53 PM ^
I don't know if I would have said it the way Jim did.
I don't know why he hasn't apologized. I don't know if he thinks he has to. Perhaps he thinks the truth hurts. I have no freaking clue; just speculation and some educated guesses on my part.
If you have a different take, what is it then?
November 3rd, 2010 at 8:19 PM ^
Glenn Dickey, the author of the article, has somewhat of a reputation here in SF for being a hack. His claim to fame is his ability to unearth scoops, which he does by incorporating some "somewhat off the record" statements into his columns.
Back in 2007, Harbaugh was new to the Bay Area. He probably was not familiar with Dickey's MO. In addition, he was somewhat inexperienced in that he only had Michigan, Western Kentucky, San Diego, and Stanford as a comparison. At Michigan, and to a lesser degree Western Kentucky, football players are football players first, student second. At Stanford and San Diego, football players are definitely student first. His quotes were born out of a lack of familiarity to Dickey, a desire to please his bosses at Stanford, and a misguided attempt to compare apples to oranges.
I would also suggest that Harbaugh was bitter about getting passed over for Scot Loeffler, and may have been influenced by some comments by Jason Forcier, who transferred from Michigan to Stanford and was not known to be a fan of the previous regime.
I seriously doubt that Harbaugh will make the same statements now. I also think that some closure over this incident would be nice if he is ever hired. Guys like Morris and Hart will come around if Harbaugh reaches out, and we all know that Lloyd is no longer involved or welcomed.
As a comparison, despite Harbaugh's disturbing tendency to use his foot to tickle his esophagus, he is much more media savvy than Leslie "Fucking Alabama" Miles. I also doubt he will put up "Detractor Not Allowed" signs around the office or in a rally.
November 3rd, 2010 at 8:41 PM ^
I think you hit the nail on the head with "I don't know if I would have said it the way Jim did." I agree with you that what he said may have merit. But, if you really love your school, as I am sure you and I both do, both of us would not have said it or would have done things the way he did. I am not positive, but I am sure he has more influence and voice with the University than many alumni. I really wish he did things differently. To me, he just called out the school he loves. Not only did he bring further scrutiny to the institution but also the people who work for it and they do represent the university. And we all know that the scrutiny will not just come from people who honestly want to better it but also people who will sensationalize it.
Fair enough, he made a mistake and emotions got carried away, but you can apologize or just maybe better explain what he meant in a more politically acceptable way. It takes courage to make a stand on issues, I will give him credit for that.
I appreciate your viewpoint, because it pains me so to say this about Harbaugh. He was my favorite player growing up, and I was a ND fan. But, until he apologizes or clears things up, I hope he never comes back. If he did, I would cheer for him and Michigan. But for now, I hope he loses every game he coaches.
November 3rd, 2010 at 10:19 PM ^
But, until he apologizes or clears things up, I hope he never comes back.
I hope you reconsider.
One thing I learned over the years, and it was reinforced going through an executive recruitment and job search, is exposing one's warts so to speak comes with the territory.
At elite organizations or at higher levels of an organization, folks are often more direct, more willing to look at the weaknesses and the flaws in plans and people. Often it requires people who are honest, thoughtful, self-aware, and tough if you want to play with the big dogs. It's not easy. It's not personal. It's just business.
Sure, airing dirty laundry is rarely desirable and at times it can be downright unprofessional.
Complicating matters is when the average fan has to listen to the inbreds and felons in East Landfill and Columbus run their mouths nonstop. But that's small potatoes stuff. Fuck 'em. They wish they were Michigan Men (and Women).
But trust me, the last thing Michigan needs is a bunch of people running around telling them how great and tradition-laden we are (true). Sometimes, it's okay to play "bad cop" -- because the rest of the organization is too easy... the too easy people are merely cheerleaders who run around blowing sunshine up everyone's ass.
We had that under Bill Martin. Sure, he gave us a bunch of shiny new toys but he sucked as a leader and as a person -- while Martin cleaned up the budget, Brandon is having to clean up a lot more in the department. Someone has gotta identify weaknesses and flaws, and thus ensure a balance in the org as a whole.
But I digress...
One cannot be leaders and best without being aware of the stuff which isn't always favorable. If one weren't, then they'd be like Dantonio with his head in the sand. So yeah, I didn't like what Jim did at the time but Michigan will be stronger for it. Especially with DB now running the show. Harbaugh may or may never coach a down at Michigan (and that's a topic for another thread). Jim Harbaugh pissed me off at the time but when I remove the emotion from the equation, he's alright in this Michigan Man's book.
Just something to make you hmmm...
November 3rd, 2010 at 10:53 PM ^
I definitely appreciate your response and the effort you put into it. I was hoping someone would help me re-consider my position on Harbaugh, which is why I have been posting alot on Harbaugh in many threads on him.
I understand all about the executive workplace like you. I work at a large financial company. Throughout the years, I know it's cutthroat and people pretend to be your friend and then will turn their backs on you. Just because the environment is like that doesn't mean you have to be.
Originally, I am not from Michigan and Michigan was my safety school. I learned to love it there and didn't even bother transferring to Columbia after my first term. I was wait-listed and got accepted after I decided on going to Michigan. And listening to stories about Bo and the experience changed me as a person forever. I think the lessons I learned make me a Michigan Man. And the most important lesson I learned was loyalty. You might not always get it in return, but when you do, it's one of the best feelings in the world. Thus, this is my problem with Harbaugh. If loyalty is the most important factor for me, betrayal is the one that hurts the most.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:06 AM ^
All that Bo meant by that statement was that he didn't want a coach (Friedler) who had already accepted a job at another school to coach during the NCAA tournament.
The statement was really just relegated to that one scenario and his been built up for years after. Let's retire it, and only bring it back in the nonplausible scenario that we have a football coach who decides to leave Michigan for another school but wants to stay and coach the bowl game. Then we can bring back that statement; which will not happen because no one will voluntarily leave Michigan for another program.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:36 AM ^
The expression goes all the way back to Fielding Yost. I have no idea why people think Bo invented it.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:53 PM ^
would have no idea what to do with Denard or Devin. Their handling of the QB situation the last couple of years has been beyond atrocious
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^
But Miles' inability to count or tell time (despite access to a helpful scoreboard clock) seem like better reasons to turn away from Miles.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:13 AM ^
is low hanging fruit with Les Miles. Was trying to expand the criticism. But yes his mental capacity to handle counting backwards leaves a lot to be desired.
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:25 AM ^
I think the general reaction to the possibility of Les Miles being our head coach in this thread circles right back to Harbaugh. 3 years ago 30% of this board would have given their left one to land Miles, and it's now the same for Harbaugh.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:54 PM ^
Do you any idea what would happen to this place if we lost a game because of Miles apparent hatred of clock management?
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:02 AM ^
LSU is a much more combustible fanbase. Nothing's burnt down there yet.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:56 PM ^
DO NOT WANT.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:57 PM ^
I'm ok with Les Miles as long as the deal he made with the devil is transferrable.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:58 PM ^
any coach that leaves their alma mater who has a great thing going to be a part of something bigger is a michigan man in my book.
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:44 AM ^
ehhhh...this is actually my biggest sticking point about rodriguez. if he wasn't loyal to WVU who would he be loyal to? if you think for a second michigan you're out of your mind. im not saying he's not all in or anything, i support him 100%, but if he was ever going to be loyal to anyone it would have been WVU.
November 2nd, 2010 at 5:06 AM ^
Loyalty cuts both ways. He left WVU because they were screwing over his assistants.
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:54 AM ^
I think the loyalty meme gets overworked. He was loyal, as the poster below says, to his assistants and to his team (state of the weight room, number of assistants he can hire, that sort of thing). Loyalty does not necessarily win football games. For example, see Crowton, Gary.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:59 PM ^
No, no, no a thousands times No
November 1st, 2010 at 11:59 PM ^
1. You fail to mention his lack of game management.
2. He won the NC with mostly Saban recruits
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:00 AM ^
make it 1000 to make threads! Support your damn coach! Most predictions were 6-6, 7-5 record. Its Maize and Blue, I love watching and supporting them. The coach, the winged helmet, the kids. Im pretty sure only a few kids on the defense can actually legally drink, but i'll buy you a drink!
November 2nd, 2010 at 12:01 AM ^
Perhaps you've bought yourself a few too many tonight...