Fan Anger
I've been perplexed by something I've noticed the last few weeks and I wonder if anyone else has noticed this and has a solid explanation.
Why do the fans that seem the angriest also seem the most ill informed?
My initial instinct would tell me that the angriest people would be the coaches and the players. Then the former players who have a stake in the program, then it would be the fans that follow the team 24/7 looking for any piece of information. This has nothing to do with this board as there are plenty of good arguments on both sides of the fence and bad ones as well, it's just interacting with people on a daily basis.
I have banned myself from any media other than Mgoblog, WTKA and national ESPN or Dr. Saturday stories the last few weeks. This caller to Sam which then made me immediately turn off the podcast summed up my dealings with my neighbors, people at the gym and work the last 2 weeks.
"Hey Sam I just don't see where we are going. The offense doesn't work against good teams and the defense is just terrible and outside of Mike Martin there is no one on the defense who looks to have any potential. Are we recruiting anybody on the defensive side of the ball that can help out this defense. I think these guys need to go."
This was tame compared to some other people, but it illustrates my point. I had a guy rail on Michigan for a couple minutes at the gym and then let it slip he never even watched the game because he can't watch that shit. Didn't watch the game? It seems the angriest guys don't follow recruiting daily or transfers or know about the depth chart or the schedule or injuries or schemes. Usualy there only source of any info is from Valenti or the newspapers.
Now I'm not saying it is wrong to not follow the silly whims of 17yr old kids or waste time like I do pouring over depth charts in May like I do, I'm just surprised with such little time invested they get so angry and are so vocal about it. You would think the angriest people would be guys that follow this thing 24/7 like many of the people on the blog. I get that anger, you devote all that time and effort into something and you get nothing back it is frustrating.
I'd like to know your thoughts.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^
Many, many people that open their mouths are stupid. Many others just like to hear themselves speak, regardless of what is coming out of their mouths. Finally, the vast majority of people are uninformed - either too lazy to do their research or too unintelligent to understand the information.
As Metallic says . . . sad but true.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:26 AM ^
My wife is a member of Mensa-explains a few things.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:35 AM ^
I got it. Anyone else?
October 19th, 2010 at 12:12 PM ^
I also got it. But I've heard that's more of a post-marriage thing than a smart thing. Still, pretty funny.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:30 AM ^
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln
October 19th, 2010 at 10:36 AM ^
Takes one to know one!!! (sa-wish!)
- Homer Simpson
October 19th, 2010 at 3:56 PM ^
(better say something or they'll think you're stupid)
October 19th, 2010 at 4:51 PM ^
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
-Albert Einstein
October 19th, 2010 at 10:31 AM ^
A lot of people take what they hear on sports radio or read in the sports page and repeat that as if they now have a deep understanding of the team.
I personally get frustrated when people try to talk anything Michigan football with me. I live on the west coast so not many people follow the team. They see a loss and say the RR should be fired and on and on but have no idea about all the things you mentioned above. Uniformed fans make it hard to be an informed fan. You cannot talk sports with them because they only repeat what they heard on ESPN.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:18 AM ^
Uniformed fans make it hard to be an informed fan.
There are uniforms for fans, too? Please tell me they're not like the Oregon electric yellow unis with silver feathers on the shoulders?
October 19th, 2010 at 1:04 PM ^
but Oregon's cheerleaders are HOT HOT HOT!!!
October 19th, 2010 at 11:03 AM ^
OK, let me get this straight. I am going to assume that you are under the opinion that the team is improving based on the fact that there will be an improvement in record for the third straight year (if there is not a complete collapse by this years squad), the secondary is young and has been hurt by injuries and defections, and the offense has blossomed in its third year and under the leadership of Robinson. These are all valid points. Therefore, anyone frustrated or angry with issues such as coaching errors and a defense that ranks among the bottom of all NCAA programs are idiots that are not as informed as you are, correct? That is not at all arrogant or narrow minded (sarcasm). While I agree that there are obviously posters here who have gone over the deep end screaming about firings and Michigan Men, to trivialize all people angry with the team as uninformed is ridiculous. Yes the team is young, yes the secondary is beaten up and unexperienced, and yes there have been major things that have happened that an intelligent, informed fan can be pissed about.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:45 AM ^
I would say your reading comprehension is terrible. I said people have valid points. I said I understand if people who follow the team closely are mad even though I may disagree with them. The point was "Why are "uninformed" fans always the angriest? Come on guy read the post.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^
I might have been projecting my frustrations with this blog onto your post, so if i missed the point I apologize.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:35 PM ^
Uh, I think there are a fair number of angry "informed" fans as well, at least as evidenced by this blog.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:10 PM ^
read his post. He admits this point.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:10 PM ^
Just so we are clear, this would be the second straight year of improvement, not the third.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:25 PM ^
Are you an idiot. People are angry because there has been virtually no improvement in three years. It doesn;t take a rocket scientist to see that. Now many people continue to use the recruiting or the cupboard was bare or shit like that has an excuse, but every program faces the same challenges.
Now, I firmly support RR, but progress is very slow at best. Am I okay with this...probably not. But it is the reality. Noone really has the answer outside of getting some damn good recruits, and hope and pray this team can grow and develop.
You have to remember, this is the WORSE U of M defense in history. That is a pretty big thing to swallow. Give people some time.
I have been calling us the new Purdue of the big ten. It doesn;t feel good, but maybe the days of being an upper echelon team are over?
October 19th, 2010 at 10:24 AM ^
I blame it all on alcohol induced frustration. At least thats what I tell myself.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:26 AM ^
It's pretty simple. When you're in the dark on what is really going on in the program and you see the team perform poorly on the field you just assume that it's the coaches fault. Those people don't know that our secondary has 3 first year starters. They don't know that 2/3 of the defensive line should be 2nd string at best. They see that a player is a senior and expect them to be good.
The individual that called in and said the offense doesn't work is in La La land. 522 yards against a top 5 defense is pretty good. Our problem is executing in the redzone which is rather strange seeing as how good we were earlier in the year when we got inside the twenty.
Most of these people complaining can be shown as frauds with one simple question. Ask them who the starters are on the offensive line. If these people have enough gall to call in and complain on the radio and seem that interested in the team then this should be an easy question. Trust me though, it's not.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:11 AM ^
I heard people calling in the Michigan Insider this morning saying that the turnovers and penalties are killing us and those are coaching issues == fire RichRod. So, Coach Rodriguez became a bad coach 2 weeks ago? We were doing well in both categories during the first 5 games. Youth and inexperience against 2 top 15 teams. I expect it to get better. The angry-uninformed-fan needs to educate themselves and get some perspective.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^
Are you serious? First 5 games? You mean in games vs UConn, ND, Bowling Green, Umass and Indiana? Yeah, our offense looked awesome because their defense sucked. I wouldn't bring this up as an example of our dominant offense. I think its been our D that has kept us in the game the last couple of games, but our offense couldn't do much after the 3 and outs. Tate was good even though he threw two picks because it brought a different element to the game that Iowa was not prepared for.
October 19th, 2010 at 4:43 PM ^
Every team plays a chunk of their games against pretty bad teams, and not all of them look awesome on offense when doing so. We don't just discount Oregon's offensive stats against all the garbage teams they've played. And I don't know how you can just discount stats Tate put up because "Iowa was not prepared for" him. It's not like the Iowa D forgot how to play non-Denard defense in the run up to this game. You maybe can expect them to have a slightly tougher time when Tate comes in, but it's still a top 5 defense and Tate's stats in a little over a quarter's worth of work were pretty fantastic. It seems like you're looking for an excuse to not give the offense it's credit, when they've shown (againts every team they've played, including MSU) that they can move the ball at a clip that's well above average.
Now, by the same token, I don't think you can just discount our recent failures in the redzone, or turnovers, and say "well we put up 500 yards of offense, and if we just converted some of those chances we would be right in the games against Iowa and MSU". It may be true, but in fact those redzone failures occurred, and we need to include them in the equation.
In other words, they're all pieces of evidence used to paint a picture, and while you may place more or less value on certain aspects, I think even the most negative viewpoints of the coaching staff would have to acknowledge that as a whole, the offense is pretty good albeit with a few flaws. Maybe not in the top 5 in the country or one that is expected to score every possession as some had hoped for after the start of the season, but still pretty darn good.
Now, the defense, ST, penalties, that's all another story...
October 19th, 2010 at 4:53 PM ^
We've played weak schedules before. It hasn't resulted in us averaging 500 yards per game. One year ago, we averaged 427 yards in our first seven games (against a very comparable to what we've faced this year). This year we're averaging 532 yards per game. If you're going to conclude that that progress is irrelevant, you've lost the ability to see things objectively.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:14 PM ^
It's almost as if the coach is somehow responsible for what players are on his team. So silly.
October 19th, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^
be careful, this is rrgoblog.com , you will get negged if you expect good results from our coach.
October 19th, 2010 at 3:27 PM ^
I can't wait until we roll through next year and you look like the complete moron that you are.
October 19th, 2010 at 7:59 PM ^
Yes, its all about next year every year with some of you guys. Apparently, we are wrong to be upset that our team is 4-19 in big ten play under RR so far. Unfortunately the never-ending list of excuses keeps growing.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:09 PM ^
all I'm saying is, please don't jump back on the bandwagon next year.
October 19th, 2010 at 4:56 PM ^
It's almost as if the coach is somehow responsible for what players are on his team. So silly.
He is responsible for the players we've brought in (and lost) since December 2007. He was not here when we recruited our fourth- and fifth-year players, and only had two months to wrap up the class that is our current juniors.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:28 AM ^
With knowledge comes understanding, which often leads to less unfounded judgement. The fans that compare now to the past without knowing what is actually happening now are bound to be all bunched up and angry.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:29 AM ^
still delusional in thinking we have the same level of talent and experience that most Michigan teams have had for the past 40 years.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:31 AM ^
People are just ignorant, plain and simple. You just can't let it get to you. Soon enough, those people are going to be praising RR and this team and act like they were there for UM all along. I say w.e and move on knowing that I have supported RR and this team the whole time.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:08 AM ^
ignant*
October 19th, 2010 at 12:41 PM ^
Agreed. While anger is justified, anger born of ignorance is more frustrating than the difficulties we have had defensively (that have only cost us two games, to date no less).
In this case, ignorance is not bliss. It's just something that makes me even more angry (when people start talking about how Rich needs to go at half time of a game that we haven't even lost yet (Iowa) that if we lose it will make us 5-2) than my frustrations with the product on the field. Of course, part of that is because I actually follow the team, know what it is struggling against, and realize that I shouldn't be that frustrated with it...or at least not that surprised given those struggles and given that knowledge.
Stupid people who follow Michigan only because they were the team in the state that wins all the time, are really mad when that team isn't winning anymore...or at least not as much. And they don't bother to look at why the team isn't winning as much, just who's been in charge while it's been happening.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:33 AM ^
Some men, you just can't reach.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
From what we've *actually seen*, the caller is correct. The starting offense (w/ Denard) moved the ball at will, but turned it over and scored 7 points against a good Iowa team as well as only 17 against a good MSU team (so he is actually correct there). That's not what most would consider "good".
On defense, I think he is a bit more off base, but stay with me: Right now, the defense looks pretty inept. This is what people see and what they have seen for 3 years. Why should they believe they'll see otherwise?
Again, these are not my opinions and I still have hope, but this is what the normal fan sees and to be honest, I can't blame them in some respects. We can argue that we're young, no depth, etc, etc and we will get better, but it's all speculation at this point. We don't know how these guys will pan out.
/Devil's advocate
October 19th, 2010 at 10:40 AM ^
Call me crazy (please don't actually call me crazy), but I actually liked that movie.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:05 AM ^
That movie is a fucking classic. Who doesn't like that movie?
October 19th, 2010 at 11:20 AM ^
Surprised you haven't gotten a "Is this really necessary?" comment lol
October 19th, 2010 at 11:56 AM ^
he was referring to Devil's Advocate starring Keanu Reeves and Al Pacino.
The Devil's Advocate received generally favorable reviews but holds a 65% rating in Rotten Tomatoes[3]. Critic James Berardinelli wrote that the film "is a highly-enjoyable motion picture that's part character study, part supernatural thriller, and part morality play"[4] while Roger Ebert wrote "The movie never fully engaged me; my mind raced ahead of the plot, and the John Grisham stuff clashed with the Exorcist stuff." - wikpedia
October 19th, 2010 at 10:43 AM ^
Judging by performance only, the caller is actually correct about the offense. Also, the OP says this:
I have banned myself from any media other than Mgoblog, WTKA and national ESPN or Dr. Saturday stories the last few weeks.I think that could explain your lack of understanding of why people are angry, and really there are very angry people that are well informed. You're really only listening/reading the far extreme of pro-RR Michigan news and opinions. On Mgoblog, saying something negative about RR will get you negged. So if this is your only media outlet, you think that it is the norm and the truth. In fact it is really only one extreme, and a lot of stats/facts get skewed through a very pro RR lens here. It is actually a very political issue (which is ironic on this site) where there are informed people on both sides, but there isn't a clear right or wrong answer.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:11 AM ^
I'm not debating the merits of RR. People have their opinions (some informed/some not). I'm saying the most ill informed are usually the most angry. That perplexes me. If you follow it closely, know the recruiting, know the depth charts, know the injuries and you still think we should scrap the coaching staff and you're pissed off I can understand that and I can try and discuss points with you. When people yell and scream and don't know who is on the offensive line and their potential, injuries etc...I find that silly.
Personally for whatever reason growing up I grew fond of certain teams in different conferences. In the SEC my team was always LSU(cool stadium and uniforms and they were usually underdogs to Alabama or whoever). So today if I see LSU is playing I'll watch and cheer for them to win. If they lose I'm not pissed off all day and having my wife look at me like like I'm nuts for the rest of Saturday I don't yell and scream, because I'm not invested and know the ins and outs of their 2 deep and say everyone should be fired.
As for Michigan I'm not sure where were headed I just think if you look at 2 things it is impossible to think of getting rid of RR.
1. I see no debate on the offense. We have a true Soph at QB that the whole world fears and we have 9 starters returning with future NFL lineman in Lewan and Omameh just starting to blossom. We are currently #3 in the country in offense. It is impossible to be rational and not think we will be better next year. To pull the plug on this offense with what comes back is insane in my book,
2. The defense returns every meaningful player next year save Mouton and we get Woolfolk back from injury. They have no excuses next year as every position will have competition finally from a non true freshmen. They need to be competent. If not then things need to be reevaluated.
I'd like to hear your rebuttal to those points if you feel I'm ill informed and getting too much pro RR news.
I'd like to think that I am smart enough to see thru the deliverer and understand the news for myself, but maybe you can sway me. Where do you get informed news on Michigan that is fair or Anti RR I'd like to go there?
October 19th, 2010 at 11:29 AM ^
All your points make sense. The wrinkle you haven't covered is the "we just don't have the talent" crew. If this is the case, that's a big problem and we won't see a competent defense anytime soon. Then how long will we be waiting...and waiting.....I'm not saying any of this is true, but you can see where some people are frustrated.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:53 AM ^
We may not have the talent on D to be great or good. I think that evaluation is for next year though. The Dline with Roh, Martin Van Bergen and the glimses Black has shown I think are an elite dline next year.
The LB's and secondary are all young and unproven to what level they can play at. We get Woolfolk back which is awesome, but he was never supposed to be elite. Players that have been here like M. Jones, M. Robinson, J. Furman, Avery, Talbott, Christian, etc... could be very good players and must be competent behind this line next year.. People judge then as freshmen which is entirely unfair. We have no idea right now.
October 19th, 2010 at 2:30 PM ^
But why are people using the "no talent" excuse when it appears we do have talent? Just young/inexperienced talent....
October 19th, 2010 at 11:33 AM ^
And don't really want to get into any sort of a debate here, especially about something I'm on the fence about. There is a post below that pretty much summarizes what I meant. Essentially posters on this site often use stats and facts to give evidence of a predetermined opinion. And often times it is "missing the forest for the trees" (as stated below). My point was that both points you give could be intelligently argued either way. One example for you, "genuinely sarcastic" had an essay after the MSU loss that was incredibly negative. I'm sure a lot of his points could be argued also, but it was a somewhat convincing post.
To address your original post, I think that talking about any issue those that lose their cool are less informed and less refined. I would also question anyone that would get overly angry (outwardly angry callers for instance) over college football. I understand passion about sports, but in the end it is only a sport. Maybe I'm just tamed after all my years of lion fandom.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:04 PM ^
Geniunely Sarcastic is generally very pro RR.. I don't quite understand you seem to be holding back.
If you are conflicted I hope my 2 points sway you. If you want RR gone I would like to hear your rebuttal to my points. In my mind our offensive potential is hard to debate, so I'm geniunely curious your thoughts.
You still owe me a well informed news source for Mich football.
May I act so boldly to say that I think the last 3 years have skewed many peoples views so badly that they can't accept the present and future, because to accept them is to admit you may have been wrong.
Ironically I was not a fan of the hire at the time.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^
At least through 2011. I feel like after the 2011 season, there will no longer be a great divide of opinions either way. I think 4 years is a fair amount of time for success, while still somewhat young, that excuse won't valid next year, and we have a favorable schedule. So I think winning next year will sway the haters back on board, and losing next year will take even the most supportive followers off the bus. I also think that we need to wait and see how this season ends up. Our schedule was actually very very unfortunate for the whole RR issue. 5 games of relatively weak opponents, followed by 2 games of arguable the hardest opponents at home is a bad order. I think after we hopefully win the next 3 (or 2 of the next 3), people will be a lot more settled.
As far as the well informed news source, I think this is a well informed news source, my point is just that it is very pro-RR. No one source is the end all be all. I generally read everything I can get my hands on, some of which is negative RR. And in no way do I claim to be the most informed person on anything, but my whole point was that there seems to be a very narrow view of right and wrong on here.
October 19th, 2010 at 12:40 PM ^
I agree with you. I'm pro RR, but 2011 is a big year. I will have some understanding of bad luck or injuries, but most will not. If you look up my posts I've been targeting 2011 since the beginning of last season. The debacle of injuries, defections and bad recruits the last 2 years in the scecondary has me wavering off my National Championship in 2011 prediction, but based on our schedule I still think it is possible given some luck that we deserve after the last couple of years. 10-12 wins is entirely possible if the good mojo around this program continues. The recruiting is gathering big time momentum with Denard making Michigan cool again. Wins the next couple of weeks will be huge.