Yet another rape allegation involving MSU basketball players.

Submitted by TTT on April 9th, 2018 at 5:39 PM
 
Summary of: 
 
Alleged incident happened The evening of April 11, 2015, and morning of April 12, 2015
 
She was raped by 3 members of the MSU basketball team in 2015
 
She reported the rape to a counselor, who acted differently when it was apparent those accused were athletes
 
She was not told to get tested for STDs, get a physical exam or seek medical treatment
 
She was told by staff that if she reported the rape to police, she would receive negative media attention with will "be swimming with some really big fish" if she pursued it
 
She ended up checking into a psychiatric hospital and ultimately withdrew from classes.

Comments

markusr2007

April 9th, 2018 at 6:36 PM ^

Rape is a crime.

Education institutions and their title ix office make-work idiots are incompetent and unqualified to investigate such heinous crimes, gather evidence, interview witnesses, make arrests, file charges and prosecute crimes to the full extent of the law.

Call 911 immediately. Leave the school out of it. They are just covering their own asses.

umich1

April 9th, 2018 at 7:10 PM ^

I try to not judge the victims in any of this, because as a male, and somebody who hasn't ever been a victim of sexual assault, I really can't relate to their state of the emotions at the time. But going forward, you can only hope all of these cases at MSU, in Hollywood, etc. will motivate victims to go to the police and let this get settled in the court of law in a fair and just way.

Part of that, as a society, is to let the legal system do its job, and not crucify either party until a judgement is reached. As a people, we are not very good at doing that. But these issues should be dealt with promptly, by the right people, with both sides having their day in court.  

1VaBlue1

April 9th, 2018 at 8:09 PM ^

I completely agree with you, but have questions.  In the PSU case, we were told that campus police had jurisdiction on campus, and the city police did not.  Is this also true for Michigan schools?  I don't know either way...  But if the rape happened on campus, and only the school police have jurisdiction, then calling 911 gets referred to campus police.  They would then get the various compliance offices and departments involved.  In this case, the victim is screwed when athletes are involved.

(Bad pun was bad and not intended...)

 

FauxMo

April 9th, 2018 at 6:36 PM ^

"So we are to assume guilt here? Ever heard of Duke Lacrosse? There are legitimate questions here that need to be answered, and I hope we don't rush to judgment and condemn anyone before the facts are presented and cool, logical heads are able to determine what happened and what is justice here." ~RCMB

"Not sure how you can blame Izzo for this." ~RCMB

"Come on. There’s nothing to show that Izzo knew (if he did, see ya). But Izzo can’t babysit his players. He can instill values in them all he wants but that’s about it." ~RCMB

"Blaming the independent actions of college student athletes who think they are invincible and above repercussions on their coach? Shouldn’t we first wait to see how much Izzo knew before going for his head. I’m right there with you if we get more details." ~RCMB

"So this is why Forbes was always smelling his fingers?" ~RCMB

"My totally unsubstantiated guess is that she had consensual sex with someone, regretted it the next day and spoke to a counselor about it. Counselor talked to her, and that was probably the end of it. Now with all that’s been in the press she sees an opportunity to cash in so her and her lawyers made these allegations in hopes of a settlement. If they really wanted justice why aren’t they filing rape charges? If what she says is 100% true then these guys deserve to be in jail."  ~RCMB

"Do you expect Izzo, or any other coach at MSU or any other university, to hire private investigators to follow his players around 24/7? The allegations are disgusting but be realistic about what coaches can do. If players decided to sexually assault someone, that's on them." ~RCMB

 

jbrandimore

April 9th, 2018 at 6:43 PM ^

"“So far, have you seen or heard anything that would suggest to you that anyone at Michigan State University didn’t handle this in the right way?” asked Channel 7’s Ross Jones.

“I have not seen one thing yet,” Ferguson said.

“But if Coach Klages was told as early as 1997 about this and didn’t do anything, isn’t the university at fault?” Jones asked.

“I wouldn’t say that at all,” Ferguson said. “That’s a bad decision that she made, and it has to be stretched to us by all the folks chasing ambulances, because there’s no payday by her.” 

rob f

April 9th, 2018 at 6:56 PM ^

excuse for an "institution of higher learning" MSU has become.

When things get that bad within the very departments that are supposed to help sexual assault victims, one has to believe that the problem is one that is deeply ingrained within the entire culture of the University at many many levels. It abolutely makes me ill to read about the response this young lady got when she went to report her sexual assault. "Go get better yourself" ?!?! WTF kind of answer is that???!!!!!

If the accusations found in the lawsuit are proven to be true---and I strongly suspect they are---those responsible all the way to the top, including LouAnn Simon, the BOT, Izzo, the AD---EVERY DAMN ONE OF THEM!!!---need to be sanctioned/punished to the fullest extent that the courts allow.

Piston Blue

April 9th, 2018 at 6:52 PM ^

Who’s shoulders does the majority of the blame fall on between the administration and Izzo/dantonio? The coordination between the athletic department and Title IX + student services offices is alarming, and certainly goes above the heads of Izzo and dantonio. In my mind, this coordination has to involve Izzo and dantonio somehow, but wouldn’t people like Hollis and others in the AD be responsible for the implementation of all this?

FauxMo

April 9th, 2018 at 7:04 PM ^

THIS is an excellent question, and the question anyone that REALLY loves MSU should be asking. My own fast opinion is this:

Criminal or even civil liability is one thing, and it's a pretty high bar to cross. I seriously doubt Izzo, Dantonio or Hollis were dumb enough to put anything in writing or in an email that would make them liable. Anyone that works in any company subject to FOIA simply knows better than this. Heck, I am no lawyer, but I work with several lawyers on legal issues and I have been told on numerous occasions that if I need to relay anything "sensitive," we do it via conference call.

That being said, as anyone who has studied or worked in a large, "unhealthy" institution knows, at some point you can't cure the disease by amputating the toes and the fingers. You have to cut the head off, even if the head is not "directly to blame." You cannot heal a sick instutition if the leaders who resided over all of the illnesses are still in chareg. It is as simple as that. At some point, IF MSU really wants to change directions, these guys have to go.  

Bodogblog

April 9th, 2018 at 7:25 PM ^

I wouldn't be surprised. Who knows if either were that deeply involved, butbid they were, at some point after getting away with it for so long you just think you're bigger than all of it. Ego consumes the fear and and why meet in person if I can just send an email

umich1

April 9th, 2018 at 7:07 PM ^

They both receive 100% of the blame. This is amounting to a cultural catastrophe.  Izzo and Dantonio are responsible for the players they recruit and mentor once they reach campus.  The MSU administration is responsible for the health and safety of all members of the community. Failure all around.

Mr Miggle

April 9th, 2018 at 7:43 PM ^

here are correct and that MSU's counselors gave the same advice to other sexual assault victims. Then the key question to answer is why would they do that? Maybe that would get to the root of the problem.

There could be a variety of answers. Were they under orders by a supervisor to protect athletes? Was it frustration with the way cases like that were covered up by investigators and prosecutors? The first option seems most likely to me as they were alleged to adopt a different procedure as soon as they found out basketball players were involved. It obviously leads to questions about why their supervisor would put a policy like that in place. 

Again, if true this may lead to more victims coming forward. Also, with multiple counselors involved, some will talk. If there is going to be a scapegoat, it will be their supervisor. The next person up the line wouldn't be able to give an innocent explanation for their involvement and would probably be someone who interacts with coaches directly.  

BlueCube

April 10th, 2018 at 6:40 AM ^

of correct procedures being followed, you could say it was frustration with the system. It seems clear from many different stories that there were instructions to cut off any reports and document as little as possible. It shows in Nassar's allegations, football allegations, basketball allegations, volleyball allegations, Stampel allegations...

Who knows who started it, but the same issue would not be coming out if there wasn't some written or unwritten order to cover up.

BTB grad

April 9th, 2018 at 6:57 PM ^

"When you guys come back 15, 20 years from now. And we know what kind of men you are. What kind of husbands you become. What kind of fathers you are. Then we'll know how good this football team is."

 

Burn the fucking place down. There's way more important things than sports. 

greatlakestate

April 9th, 2018 at 7:13 PM ^

"On information and belief, MSU has fostered a culture in which female victims are discouraged from reporting sexual assaults when those assaults are perpetrated by male athletes, thus protecting the university, the male athletics programs, and the male athletes at the expense of the female victims"

 

That says it all...

Go Blue in MN

April 9th, 2018 at 7:47 PM ^

that this is a civil complaint drafted by the plaintiff's attorney.  If this were a complaint against Michigan, I'm sure many of us would be using that fact to at least withhold judgment until more facts come out.  As an attorney, I've read quite a number of complaints that allege facts that I knew were just flat out untrue.

That being said, if even 50% of this is true, MSU may be the most corrupt, reckless institution of "higher learning" ever.  Anyone who was involved in this should be fired at best and prosecuted if the evidence warrants. 

pasadenablue

April 9th, 2018 at 7:52 PM ^

The legal process will have to take it's course.

 

But given the existing context, both with MSU and the basketball program itself, there seems to be waaaaaaaaay too much smoke for anyone objective to be able to flatly deny the allegations.

umchicago

April 9th, 2018 at 7:56 PM ^

it's not just the fact that sexual assaults are being reported, but multiple gang rapes.  what vermine goes out in packs and gang rapes women?  and all agree to it.  i guess we know.

darkstar

April 9th, 2018 at 8:00 PM ^

that the crack investigative team Staee has put together will get to the bottom of this.  And make sure that the teal ribbon factory approves overtime.

 

Image result for three monkeys

bronxblue

April 9th, 2018 at 9:37 PM ^

Good Lord, if true they should nuke that entire team. And it's really not hard to imagine exactly how this went down.

I will presume innocence until proven guilty, but at this point I'm prone to believe the worst in MSU.

Boulderine

April 9th, 2018 at 9:57 PM ^

...is when their fans say, “Well this stuff is happening everywhere.” First of all, that’s quite the reach without any evidence. But more importantly, defending rape just because it supposedly happens everywhere is still defending rape.

Michifornia

April 9th, 2018 at 10:06 PM ^

And really sad how anyone can even contemplate violating another person. And the fact that it’s pervasive there signals a serious issue with the culture there. Scary.

Wolverheel

April 10th, 2018 at 12:06 AM ^

I feel bad for their (non-reality denying) fans. After the UNC scandal I had to look at my alma mater differently. I wasn't there during that time and it was still a bit nauseating to see what the administration did. I can’t imagine having to look at my school and see “rape enablers” instead of “helped athletes get artificially better grades.”

 

Now it should go without saying that the actual victims are the, well, victims, but still. I know a lot of sane sparties who are a bit crushed that the school they loved did this.

Ramblin

April 10th, 2018 at 1:19 PM ^

As soon as they manage to do something about the dispicable behavior of their representative leaders.  They won't.  They will say "Engler doesn't represent us!" while buying season tickets to watch their rape squads.  Pillow talk...

Mich fan in AZ

April 9th, 2018 at 10:38 PM ^

I believe in innocent until proven guilty as much as anyone out there. But I highly doubt this many victims and witnesses can be wrong. Investigations against MSU at this point need the highest priority, and not by local governments with any MSU alumni or backers. It needs to be 100 percent independent at this point.

jbrandimore

April 10th, 2018 at 10:10 AM ^

The original comment suggested that the mere weight of witnesses/accusations against MSU personnel likely meant some culpability.

The guy I replied to bascially said "presumption of innocence."

News flash - preponderance of evidence carries the weight of the day in this type of lawsuit.

The original commenter's inclination is 100% correct, and the "lawyer" presuming to correct him was utterly wrong.

Mich fan in AZ

April 9th, 2018 at 11:52 PM ^

I'm no lawyer, and I admit I'm playing a bit armchair. What I'm trying to say is, at best, this many complaints looks really, really bad. However, I agree that this doesn't create guilt. A formal investigation does need to take place before sanctions, if any, are handed down. But I also can say that I firmly believe that when this many complaints and lawsuits pile on top of another towards one individual or in this case institution, such an investigation would seem to warrant taking a very high priority, if possible.

For now, MSU isn't guilty, so nothing should be handed down at this time. But the investigation taking place is definitely warranted. Once complete, then I think it becomes fair to evaluate what punishments, if any, are appropriate. Therefore, you won't hear me clamoring for the death penalty or anything like that right now. Maybe MSU isn't quite as bad as they look, we'll just have to let the investigation play itself out.

Of course as our rival I dislike MSU, but this goes beyond the rivalry and as a human being I just can't wish for something so horrific. At the same time, every victim at that school, as well as elsewhere, should have the utmost support from those around them.

JFW

April 10th, 2018 at 10:56 AM ^

I like it. This looks horrific, especially given everything else that has gone on. And I do think the discovery process will be helpful; and may well trigger an investigation. However, at this point, things are just at the accusation level. I want justice for the victims, but we need the facts first. 

 

Now, given all that, it is my assumption that this happened, I believe the victim, and this seems to highlight a pattern of behavior by the MSU athletic department that is downright scary.