Yet another rape allegation involving MSU basketball players.
I try to not judge the victims in any of this, because as a male, and somebody who hasn't ever been a victim of sexual assault, I really can't relate to their state of the emotions at the time. But going forward, you can only hope all of these cases at MSU, in Hollywood, etc. will motivate victims to go to the police and let this get settled in the court of law in a fair and just way.
Part of that, as a society, is to let the legal system do its job, and not crucify either party until a judgement is reached. As a people, we are not very good at doing that. But these issues should be dealt with promptly, by the right people, with both sides having their day in court.
I completely agree with you, but have questions. In the PSU case, we were told that campus police had jurisdiction on campus, and the city police did not. Is this also true for Michigan schools? I don't know either way... But if the rape happened on campus, and only the school police have jurisdiction, then calling 911 gets referred to campus police. They would then get the various compliance offices and departments involved. In this case, the victim is screwed when athletes are involved.
(Bad pun was bad and not intended...)
"So we are to assume guilt here? Ever heard of Duke Lacrosse? There are legitimate questions here that need to be answered, and I hope we don't rush to judgment and condemn anyone before the facts are presented and cool, logical heads are able to determine what happened and what is justice here." ~RCMB
"Not sure how you can blame Izzo for this." ~RCMB
"Come on. There’s nothing to show that Izzo knew (if he did, see ya). But Izzo can’t babysit his players. He can instill values in them all he wants but that’s about it." ~RCMB
"Blaming the independent actions of college student athletes who think they are invincible and above repercussions on their coach? Shouldn’t we first wait to see how much Izzo knew before going for his head. I’m right there with you if we get more details." ~RCMB
"So this is why Forbes was always smelling his fingers?" ~RCMB
"My totally unsubstantiated guess is that she had consensual sex with someone, regretted it the next day and spoke to a counselor about it. Counselor talked to her, and that was probably the end of it. Now with all that’s been in the press she sees an opportunity to cash in so her and her lawyers made these allegations in hopes of a settlement. If they really wanted justice why aren’t they filing rape charges? If what she says is 100% true then these guys deserve to be in jail." ~RCMB
"Do you expect Izzo, or any other coach at MSU or any other university, to hire private investigators to follow his players around 24/7? The allegations are disgusting but be realistic about what coaches can do. If players decided to sexually assault someone, that's on them." ~RCMB
April 10th, 2018 at 12:33 AM ^
"“So far, have you seen or heard anything that would suggest to you that anyone at Michigan State University didn’t handle this in the right way?” asked Channel 7’s Ross Jones.
“I have not seen one thing yet,” Ferguson said.
“But if Coach Klages was told as early as 1997 about this and didn’t do anything, isn’t the university at fault?” Jones asked.
“I wouldn’t say that at all,” Ferguson said. “That’s a bad decision that she made, and it has to be stretched to us by all the folks chasing ambulances, because there’s no payday by her.”
THIS is an excellent question, and the question anyone that REALLY loves MSU should be asking. My own fast opinion is this:
Criminal or even civil liability is one thing, and it's a pretty high bar to cross. I seriously doubt Izzo, Dantonio or Hollis were dumb enough to put anything in writing or in an email that would make them liable. Anyone that works in any company subject to FOIA simply knows better than this. Heck, I am no lawyer, but I work with several lawyers on legal issues and I have been told on numerous occasions that if I need to relay anything "sensitive," we do it via conference call.
That being said, as anyone who has studied or worked in a large, "unhealthy" institution knows, at some point you can't cure the disease by amputating the toes and the fingers. You have to cut the head off, even if the head is not "directly to blame." You cannot heal a sick instutition if the leaders who resided over all of the illnesses are still in chareg. It is as simple as that. At some point, IF MSU really wants to change directions, these guys have to go.
They both receive 100% of the blame. This is amounting to a cultural catastrophe. Izzo and Dantonio are responsible for the players they recruit and mentor once they reach campus. The MSU administration is responsible for the health and safety of all members of the community. Failure all around.
here are correct and that MSU's counselors gave the same advice to other sexual assault victims. Then the key question to answer is why would they do that? Maybe that would get to the root of the problem.
There could be a variety of answers. Were they under orders by a supervisor to protect athletes? Was it frustration with the way cases like that were covered up by investigators and prosecutors? The first option seems most likely to me as they were alleged to adopt a different procedure as soon as they found out basketball players were involved. It obviously leads to questions about why their supervisor would put a policy like that in place.
Again, if true this may lead to more victims coming forward. Also, with multiple counselors involved, some will talk. If there is going to be a scapegoat, it will be their supervisor. The next person up the line wouldn't be able to give an innocent explanation for their involvement and would probably be someone who interacts with coaches directly.
of correct procedures being followed, you could say it was frustration with the system. It seems clear from many different stories that there were instructions to cut off any reports and document as little as possible. It shows in Nassar's allegations, football allegations, basketball allegations, volleyball allegations, Stampel allegations...
Who knows who started it, but the same issue would not be coming out if there wasn't some written or unwritten order to cover up.
"When you guys come back 15, 20 years from now. And we know what kind of men you are. What kind of husbands you become. What kind of fathers you are. Then we'll know how good this football team is."
Burn the fucking place down. There's way more important things than sports.
"On information and belief, MSU has fostered a culture in which female victims are discouraged from reporting sexual assaults when those assaults are perpetrated by male athletes, thus protecting the university, the male athletics programs, and the male athletes at the expense of the female victims"
That says it all...
that this is a civil complaint drafted by the plaintiff's attorney. If this were a complaint against Michigan, I'm sure many of us would be using that fact to at least withhold judgment until more facts come out. As an attorney, I've read quite a number of complaints that allege facts that I knew were just flat out untrue.
That being said, if even 50% of this is true, MSU may be the most corrupt, reckless institution of "higher learning" ever. Anyone who was involved in this should be fired at best and prosecuted if the evidence warrants.
The legal process will have to take it's course.
But given the existing context, both with MSU and the basketball program itself, there seems to be waaaaaaaaay too much smoke for anyone objective to be able to flatly deny the allegations.
has done nothing to deserve the benefit of the doubt, that is certainly true.
I still suggest "glowing nuclear fallout" surrounging the athletic programs.
I am without speech. I have nothing more to say about all this. This is crazy!!
it's not just the fact that sexual assaults are being reported, but multiple gang rapes. what vermine goes out in packs and gang rapes women? and all agree to it. i guess we know.
that the crack investigative team Staee has put together will get to the bottom of this. And make sure that the teal ribbon factory approves overtime.
NAME THE NAMES.
May I present: "Baylor North"
April 10th, 2018 at 10:40 AM ^
April 10th, 2018 at 12:06 AM ^
I feel bad for their (non-reality denying) fans. After the UNC scandal I had to look at my alma mater differently. I wasn't there during that time and it was still a bit nauseating to see what the administration did. I can’t imagine having to look at my school and see “rape enablers” instead of “helped athletes get artificially better grades.”
Now it should go without saying that the actual victims are the, well, victims, but still. I know a lot of sane sparties who are a bit crushed that the school they loved did this.
As soon as they manage to do something about the dispicable behavior of their representative leaders. They won't. They will say "Engler doesn't represent us!" while buying season tickets to watch their rape squads. Pillow talk...
This response is entirely out of context. The comment two posts above brought innocent until proven guilty into the discussion not the person you replied to. Also, the post you replied to does not imply that the standard should apply in this case, just that the concept is clearly not understood.
April 10th, 2018 at 10:10 AM ^
The original comment suggested that the mere weight of witnesses/accusations against MSU personnel likely meant some culpability.
The guy I replied to bascially said "presumption of innocence."
News flash - preponderance of evidence carries the weight of the day in this type of lawsuit.
The original commenter's inclination is 100% correct, and the "lawyer" presuming to correct him was utterly wrong.
April 10th, 2018 at 10:56 AM ^
I like it. This looks horrific, especially given everything else that has gone on. And I do think the discovery process will be helpful; and may well trigger an investigation. However, at this point, things are just at the accusation level. I want justice for the victims, but we need the facts first.
Now, given all that, it is my assumption that this happened, I believe the victim, and this seems to highlight a pattern of behavior by the MSU athletic department that is downright scary.
April 10th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^