The disappointment is almost worth it
February 7th, 2018 at 12:03 PM ^
Quit drinking and go to bed Larry
February 7th, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
Almost as bad as the "Unacceptables" are those who have grown complacent with the abundant mediocrity over the past 15 years.
It is ok to still love Michigan yet question the current happenings around the program. After all we are the "Leaders and Best!"
The motto isn't "Those who stay will be 4th in the B1G East and likely lose to every team with a winning record (sans Purdue! Yay..)"
February 7th, 2018 at 12:54 PM ^
Yeah those "Unnacceptables" are so not fans. I love trash talking to my OSU buddies. My favorite line is "Hey you Buckeyes! You better watch it or we might make it a close game! Oh yeah!!! BURN!!!".
February 7th, 2018 at 2:59 PM ^
So... "Embrace the suck"?
February 7th, 2018 at 3:17 PM ^
"Embrace the suck"? Nah, I've been more "Spooning the Suck" since we have known each other for over 15 years now.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:14 PM ^
Larry is over complacent and quite frankly annoying.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:06 PM ^
I think characterizing people giving criticisms to the program this year as part of the "Unacceptable" crowd is quite patronizing. There are signs of issues with the program that were exposed this season.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:11 PM ^
The issue was having one of the youngest teams in all of college football.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:15 PM ^
There was also the blowing of a 19-3 lead to a bad South Carolina team and losing under the lights to an MSU team that was just as inexperienced as Michigan was. There was also the losing of top targets this recruiting cycle when rivals such as ND and OSU are bringing in elite programs. There was also a horrid O-Line leading to the injury of two Michigan QB's this season, in which the OC had to apologize to his players about his bad coaching. There was also a hand off to a tight end on 3rd and 1 which led to a fumble. There was also the stubborn nature of putting Mike McCray on talented Running Backs when it was clear he could not handle the responsiblity.
Youth can only be used as an excuse for too long. It is reasonable to lose to teams more talented such as Wisconsin, OSU, or PSU last year. Michigan lost to teams they shouldn't of lost to.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:20 PM ^
Exactly.
Pointing out issues or stating one is concerned about the direction of the program doesn't mean one doesn't support the program.
Michigan football, unfortunately, has not been consistently great since the 1980s/1990s. While it looked like Harbaugh was returning the program to that level, this past year was a tough one. Following it up with a meh recruiting class that includes lower-rated prospects in the areas we've had problems in the recent past (quarterback, offensive line) makes worrying about the program logical.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:18 PM ^
Two freshman QBs light up the National Championship.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:31 PM ^
sorry, not sorry
February 7th, 2018 at 12:32 PM ^
1) Still not the norm.
2) Were they surrounded by freshmen?
February 7th, 2018 at 12:53 PM ^
McKeon, Bunting, Wheatley, Kugler, Bredeson, Perry, Crawford, Mcdoom, Poggi, Isaac, Hill, Cole, Harris, Ulizio, JBB, Runyan, and Gentry weren't freshman
February 7th, 2018 at 1:09 PM ^
You're right. We won't count Bunting.
List still stands as players that aren't freshman who "surrounded" the QBs
Forgot to add Evans, Higdon, and Ways as well. Whoops.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:58 PM ^
you can be sure one of them would've been taking a hand-off
February 7th, 2018 at 3:32 PM ^
- The offense had two new coaches that attempted to change the offensive scheme
- Michigan was young in some vital areas such as QB and WR
- You listed many 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stringers
That being said, I don't think we can't just hang all the failures on "youth" and just shrug our shoulders. It's clearly a combination of problems and we'll see if Harbaugh can turn the corner in 2018/2019.
February 7th, 2018 at 9:07 PM ^
Everyone talks about "Youth not being an excuse", citing that because "other teams also played 1st and 2nd year players", don't ever address that there's a clear difference between playing young players by choice and playing young players by necessity.
Also, Harbaugh clearly wants to run a complex offense, even his 3rd year at Stanford was 8-5 (yes, he inherited a different program in Michigan, which is why the 2nd year bests the 1st year and the 3rd year). Many, many, many analysts and people on here considered Michigan's schedule and concluded they would finish with 3-4 losses.
I'm not trying to whitewash Harbaugh's mistakes or say that he's perfect, but there's a fair bit of hyperbolic "sky is falling" (and yes that has to do with Harbaugh's push for publicity--which puts you in more limelight when you inevitably crash) attitude toward the program.
First 4 classes:
Hoke - #30, #6, #4, #20
Harbaugh - #37, #8, #5,,#21
And yet everyone would agree that the programs are CLEARLY trending in opposite directions.
Recruiting can also have to do with turnover and a recruits' desire to see the field early. USC gets Top-10 classes with ease, so top recruiting is a necessary-but-not-sufficient to competing for NC's
Don't get me wrong teams like Alabama and OSU prove to be an exception to the rule as they recruit so well (and in Alabama's case literally "process" 5-stars to make room for new recruits) that so many players leave early that they can regularly take ~25 players per cycle
Clemson is a great example of a team that never had the top of the top classes with great regularity but built up it's program slowly.
February 8th, 2018 at 2:20 AM ^
That's the problem. With our current offensive situation you can't argue they're trending in opposite directions. They look eerily similar at the moment, honestly. Complete with the same bowl loss to South Carolina.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:46 PM ^
2) his Left Tackle protecting him was a freshman, along with the WR who caught the game winning TD.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^
Quick question OP - are YOU happy/satisfied with the results?
During my four years at U of M (78-81) we did the following:
Won the B1G twice (78 & 80)
Won the Rose Bowl once (80)
And it was considered a dissapointing 4 year stretch because we only finished 8-4 in 79 and 9-3 in 81.
I'm not saying "unacceptable", as a matter of fact just about nobody is, but dammit man pretending like everything is great is just as foolish IMO as the "unacceptable" crowd you like to mock.
We're in year four and getting our ASSES KICKED in recruiting this year. We just are. Not saying this is a trend but to act like it doesnt matter is silly - it DOES mattter which is why everybody gets so excited when we do land a 5 star like Peppers or Gary.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:25 PM ^
is honestly more concerning to me this year than the performance on the field last season.
We are never going to beat OSU and compete for Big 10 and national titles on a regular basis with inferior talent.
We're paying the coaches a damn fortune. Top 5 classes, 5-star players, and top 5-10 finishes should be expected almost every year.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:37 PM ^
but with your take the coaches are overpaid.
Wisconsin's recruiting classes are usually upper 30's every year. The recruits get coached up and buy into the system.
Just waiting for this to happen here.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^
they are overpaid. Not so much Harbaugh (or Brown), but Pep and Drevno are two of the highest paid assistants in the country. And for what? The offense was crap last season, and that falls on those two as much as it does on the team's youth.
Wisconsin is great, and I'd give a toe to have their record over the past 10 years instead of ours, but given our institutional advantages I expect much more. I think when Wisconsin finally makes it to the playoffs, Alabama is going to hand them their asses. Hell, put Wisconsin in the Big 10 East and see how often they finish better than tied for 2nd or 3rd.
February 7th, 2018 at 5:23 PM ^
Harbaugh's still overpaid.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:01 PM ^
What are your recommended pay cuts by coach? Not saying you are wrong by any means.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:11 PM ^
and hire just about anyone else to replace them.
Personally, I'm a big fan of having a reasonable salary with big incentives tied to performance. Beating rivals, Big 10 Championship, playoffs, 10 win season, etc should earn the coaches a bonus.
February 7th, 2018 at 2:48 PM ^
Big Al Borges is off the market, so he can't be included in the "just about anyone else" crowd.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:10 PM ^
Agreed, the recruiting is concerning. Moreso than the record with a young team.
If this is a one-year blip, fine.
If next year is bad, look out. I suspect next year's recruiting will depend a great deal upon on-field performance.
I used to think 2018-2019 was a "range" of years in which Harbaugh had to produce. I'm changing that.
I think 2018 is a must-win-a-lot. Full stop. I expected struggles this past season, perhaps even a recruiting dip. But there are some signs of trouble and Harbaugh needs to win and win a lot to pull things around. Maybe not a national title, and perhaps even not a playoff berth (if they win the B1G with two losses and miss out and win the Rose Bowl or something, not 3 or 4 losses and continued mediocrity). But winning.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:31 PM ^
Stephen:
I am very pessimistic about our record next year largely due to the insanity of our schedule. I believe we'll be a better team but I think the record will be about the same (8-4) as it was this year. Here are the games in question IMO
Sept. 1 -- at Notre Dame - lean to loss
Sept. 8 -- Western Michigan - win
Sept. 15 -- Southern Methodist - win
Sept. 22 -- Nebraska* - win
Sept. 29 -- at Northwestern* - lean to win
Oct. 6 -- Maryland* (Homecoming) - win
Oct. 13 -- Wisconsin* - toss up
Oct. 20 -- at Michigan State* - lean to loss
Oct. 27 -- Bye Week
Nov. 3 -- Penn State* - lean to loss
Nov. 10 -- at Rutgers* - win
Nov. 17 -- Indiana* -win
Nov. 24 -- at Ohio State*- loss
So then what happens in your opinion?
February 7th, 2018 at 2:03 PM ^
I kept hearing about how bad the schedule is but never looked at it. You see 8 wins there? WMU, SMU, NW, Maryland, Rutgers and Indiana are probably wins. Nebraska? I don't know. We get them early so there's that but their new coach is much better than their old coach. PSU without Barkley will be interesting. MSU is a maybe. Jeeze that's brutal
February 7th, 2018 at 2:53 PM ^
I'm in the same boat. I believe the team will be significantly better, but you will not necessarily see that in W/L records.
This board will collectively lose its shit next year..
February 7th, 2018 at 3:07 PM ^
What happens?
Fans are upset, probably a lot of irrationality. The program gets a "toxic" national image, accurate or otherwise. Recruiting is bad for a second straight year. Harbaugh stays on, makes some major changes. Anyone who has a chance at the draft leaves. A couple of high-profile guys transfer. Harbaugh stays and there's no public issues with the AD, but there are more and serious staff changes; perhaps even a philsophical change. Season tickets sell out (great home slate) but the waitlist goes way down and donations plunge. Serious NFL rumors swirl around Harbaugh whether founded or not.
Whomever is left comes back in 2019 with a fair amount of recruiting stars but some key holes. The fanbase is desperate. The team is "embattled." Harbaugh is at the top of most preseason "hot seat" lists in summer of 2019 (he'll appear on a few this year). The first loss, if there is one, causes total fanbase meltdown.
I think the team has the potential to be really good this year. But at this point a lot depends upon the OL, and even more depends upon Harbaugh developing a great QB.
The QB is going to be the thing. A prolonged talent deficit against OSU is impossible to overcome EXCEPT with a superior QB. If Patterson or McCaffrey can be the man, if they can be a top-five national type of guy, Michigan can be a dominant team for a couple of years. But the rest of the team is simply not good enough to be elite right now.
It's Shea or Dylan for greatness, or panic.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:39 PM ^
that our record in 2018 is similar to 2017 given the murderers row of rivals on the road. What I want to see is improvement. Win a game that we're supposed to lose. Punch ND in the mouth in the opener. Take MSU to the woodshed. Play all 60 mins of every game. Beat OSU.
Hell, just beating OSU is worth 2 or 3 non-OSU wins in my book.
Maybe I'm crazy, but 8-4 with a win over OSU (and preferably MSU) is a better season than 10-2 with losses to both.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:02 PM ^
They were an established program. This was year 3 of a new regime after our worst 7 year stretch of most of our lifetimes.
Context my friend.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:07 PM ^
The worst four year stretch in Bo's tenure up to that point. People were NOT happy with only winning two B1G titles and going 8-4 & 9-3 and were claiming the game had passed him by.
So I'll ask you the same question the OP hasnt answered yet....are YOU happy with the current results both on the field and in recruiting? Cause back in 78-81 we sure as hell werent.
Additional context mi amigo.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:34 PM ^
78 was 40 years ago and we had won the BIG 6 of the previous 7 years, losing only 7 games in the process. Considering we haven't won the BIG since 2004 and have lost more than 7 games in the last 2 years, that seems like pretty important context to keep in mind. These are obviously different eras of Michigan football
February 7th, 2018 at 6:38 PM ^
Me: The season and recruiting cycle were disappointments.
You: Are you happy with the results????????
Me: …
February 7th, 2018 at 12:04 PM ^
Wallow in your Wolverine fandom.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:05 PM ^
WE LANDED ON THE MOON
February 7th, 2018 at 12:24 PM ^
Do you mean M00N? I can't wait to watch another game like the M00N! It's even possible to happen again this year twice (Northwestern and Nebraska, three times if you count Notre Dame).
February 7th, 2018 at 12:06 PM ^
And compete for any kind of championship.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^
So you're a fair weather fan?
February 7th, 2018 at 12:42 PM ^
When's the last time there's been any fair weather? I think it's safe to say were all tired of seeing rain clouds shitty grey skies. If I could hit the fast forward button to a good Michigan season, I'd do it too.
February 7th, 2018 at 1:11 PM ^
( and don't get to use it very long either )
February 7th, 2018 at 6:41 PM ^
I will not wake you up when that happens. I’ll be too busy celebrating with the fans who supported this program even during the lean years.
February 7th, 2018 at 12:06 PM ^
Thanks