Debate proposition: Dantonio is the best coach in the B!G.
I'm sure many negs are due this OP, but I just watched the MSU game and when I think of this:
-3-9
-lost best their WR and several contributors due to scandal
-are along with M, the youngest team in the nation
-have objectively, factually, worse talent than any of the league elite, including us
-are playing walk ons at key positions
-had a terrible recruiting year yet are playing freshmen
-beat us at home and just beat PSU, another team with far superior talent to them...
I can't come to any other conclusion than the title of this post. I am all Harbaugh, and I think our future still is brighter than most in the league. I wouldn't want any other coach for Michigan. But damn IMO this is hard to refute. But I'm wide open to counter arguments. Have any?
November 4th, 2017 at 7:37 PM ^
Absolutely no doubt about it.
I also think "quarters" defense is hard to beat. Why the hell aren't we playing that ? We'd be even more ferocious with that
November 4th, 2017 at 7:41 PM ^
It's not, it's just that Big 10 teams aren't particularly well built to exploit the weaknesses of it and bad weather can make it even harder to beat. If he tried running that defense in the Big 12 or Pac 12 he'd be giving up 40 points per game.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:45 PM ^
Who cares. We are in big 10 not someother conference
November 4th, 2017 at 7:49 PM ^
Yeah we are a good quarterback away from shredding that defense. In 2015 we were two overthrows away from a 3 score win. This year an offense that does anything at all probably wins that game. Those are our short comings not the schematic dominance of Michigan State. When the weather is good against teams that can spread to throw they get worked big time.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:53 PM ^
So a win tonight in rain at Minnesota means UM can play in rain, but then what happens to rain argurment?
No one buying it and you should not be selling it.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:01 PM ^
No, but when the biggest weakness of your defense is the deep passing game bad weather plays into your hand. I don't see how that concept is hard to grasp. The quarters defense has been consistently exploited by slot receivers running deep up the seam. The opposing team just needs to be able to execute that which is much more difficult in bad weather.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:19 PM ^
Again
This is big10. Bad weather happens every year. I don't buy this bad weather crap. His Defense does well with low rated recruits and dares QB to throw which in college are rare songs a good gamble and his cbs hold the shit out of WRs. Also he finds a good QB. Stop with lewerke sucks stuff; he makes plays at critical time more so than not. That's the recipe for win
How can he field competent QBs (except last year) and we have been in Fing wilderness all these years. He plays to win. Style points don't count. Even I feel their OL holds ans line does unnecessary roughness they win with that without any repricussions. We need to win and actually upset good teams which we haven't done in forever. Last year we didn't really upset any teams.
Everyone should ask this of themselves: would you not have their record right now ? Losing to ND and beating PSU. I would
I really really hate MSU.
November 4th, 2017 at 10:03 PM ^
Also losing to a bad Northwestern team. I guess that does'nt count. In the end of both careers Jim Harbaugh's record will be much better than Dantonio's.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:21 PM ^
They don't play at Minnesota dumbass.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:58 PM ^
...and yet, it seems like Dantonio has no issue finding a "good quarterback" pretty much every season. Dantonio started with Hoyer who was a holdover from John L. Smith, and since then has pretty much moved seamlessly to Cousins, Cook, and now Lewerke.
3 years in and 8 scholarship QBs later, Harbaugh is still trying to find a stable presence in that position group.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:03 PM ^
Seamlessly? They went 3-9 last year.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:12 PM ^
Well Lewerke did break his leg like 4 games into last season, but yes I think one 3-9 season after a 65-16 five year run would be considered "pretty much seaminglessly."
November 4th, 2017 at 8:17 PM ^
And you would be wrong, dickhead.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:28 PM ^
After 2 10 and 3 years with a 5th yr transfer and a borges recruit rs soph, and we had people calling for harbaugh on this board.
3 and 9 is never "seamless"
November 4th, 2017 at 10:10 PM ^
He actually broke his leg 8 games into last season. And I love how 3-9 was the most disastrous season in Michigan football history, but for MSU it's just excused as a slight bump in the road. Your argument sucks.
November 5th, 2017 at 1:24 AM ^
When they have won 3 Big Ten Championships and consistently beaten us over the last decade. They will bounce back from 3-9 with a 9-3 season and possibly a bowl win to make it 10-3. We bounced back from 3-9 with 5-7, then 7-6, which culminated in getting blown out by a QB wearing number 36 in a shit bowl game.
November 4th, 2017 at 10:03 PM ^
First of all, Rudock was a stable presence. Speight was a stable presence. Peters will hopefully be a stable presence....
Second, where are you getting 8 scholarship QB's? Even if you include the two commits who aren't on campus (or actually signed) yet AND grad transfer Jake Rudock AND now tight end Zach Gentry, I only get 7.
November 4th, 2017 at 10:14 PM ^
Morris, Speight, O'Korn, Rudock, Gentry, Peters, McCaffery, and I'm assuming you forgot Malzone existed like the majority of the fanbase.
Rudock was fine, and probably the best of the bunch, but also keep in mind that Rudock didn't really "turn it on" until the last 4-5 games of the 2015 season with 845 of those yards coming against Rutgers and Indiana.
November 4th, 2017 at 10:36 PM ^
if Harbaugh replaced Speight with Peters, Michigan would be controlling their own destiny for a BIG East title. As of halftime of Minnesota game, Peters looks pretty legit. Hindsight and all blah blah, but Harbaugh should have known enough. Sitting on Peters cost Michigan a title shot.
November 5th, 2017 at 1:15 AM ^
Did the 300 yards rushing in the first half make Peters look legit?
I don’t really get it. He wasn’t asked to do a whole lot in this game.
November 5th, 2017 at 7:10 AM ^
Meant his performance last week and up to that point. JOK is not playing any more is he. If Peters played against MSU, I think we win, and would be in the division driver's seat. I love Harbaugh, but it's fair game to question why we endured increasingly pathetic QB play with Peters on the bench - acknowledge the small sample size, but again, he's starting now isn't he.
November 5th, 2017 at 1:17 AM ^
Would've bet anything this was an AA Forever thread...
November 4th, 2017 at 7:36 PM ^
have to agree...
November 4th, 2017 at 7:37 PM ^
I hate it but it's not close. He's the best.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:40 PM ^
No he's not. He's built a foundation and has capitalized off others mistakes.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:46 PM ^
You keep that beard alive, you closet Spartan...
November 4th, 2017 at 7:55 PM ^
What is a coach if not a manager? And what is a good manager, one who gets the most out of his resources.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:30 PM ^
And you still think the game is at Minnesota, dumbass.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:55 PM ^
Arguably would be the best answer. Meyer has won National Championships. Yes Dantonio has had his number a bit in the B1G, but he isn't going to be able to coach MSU up to a level where they knock off a Bama or Clemson in the playoffs.
Not to discredit what they've accomplished since he's been there as they say you make your own luck, but it truly is unbelievable how that team always seem to have things go their way in big games. As a Michigan fan I feel like anything that could possibly go wrong, will. I just keep waiting for the team to be good enough to hold on despite that. MSU never seems to be great, yet somehow everything always falls into place and next thing you know they are in the driver seat.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:03 PM ^
Soul, devil.
November 5th, 2017 at 6:34 AM ^
Dantonio has never had the athletes Meyer has always had... Dantonio only gets 1 elite athlete every couple of years... OSU/Bama/Clemson have been getting classes full of them every year... The difference is that everyone outside of Bama is unable to develop players consistently and they are all prone to overconfidence or being underprepared. Saban and Dantonio bring a bit of the NFL into their program in regards to how they develop players and they have certain expectations which are higher than most places. Basically this, Saban gets 5* recruits to come in and fight and claw to get better like they are all 3*s... They are hungry...Dantonio gets the actualy 2* and 3* with chips on their shoulder and then develops them excellently so they outperform the standard 4* and 5* B1G team...
However the similarity to Saban is why Bama is Kryptonite barring an offensive change at MSU... Saban does what Dantonio does, with a much higher floor and ceiling for basically every player on his roster... Every other "Elite" school can catch lightning in a bottle and ride that to a National Championship, But BAMA and MSU are consistently good (at the levels they are at) because their development of recruits and their mindset/attitudes.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:55 PM ^
Arguably would be the best answer. Meyer has won National Championships. Yes Dantonio has had his number a bit in the B1G, but he isn't going to be able to coach MSU up to a level where they knock off a Bama or Clemson in the playoffs.
Not to discredit what they've accomplished since he's been there as they say you make your own luck, but it truly is unbelievable how that team always seem to have things go their way in big games. As a Michigan fan I feel like anything that could possibly go wrong, will. I just keep waiting for the team to be good enough to hold on despite that. MSU never seems to be great, yet somehow everything always falls into place and next thing you know they are in the driver seat.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:37 PM ^
The correct answer: maybe. Definitely top 3.
They lost to Northwestern and got mollywhopped by Notre Dame. They’ve got 3 games to go. This sport is weird.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:42 PM ^
Mollywhopped??
November 4th, 2017 at 7:55 PM ^
Were you born in the 2000??
November 4th, 2017 at 8:10 PM ^
Meyer was just "mollywhopped" by Iowa and lost to Oklahoma. So under your logic Meyer is what kind of coach?
Notre Dame is currently ranked #3 in CFP.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:22 PM ^
“Maybe” the best coach. Just like Dantonio and Harbaugh are “maybe” the best coach. Maybe is pretty clearly the operative word there. I think this thread is an overreaction, and I also think that Dantonio is a very fine coach. We are a week removed from them losing to a third tier BigTen team. I don’t think MSU’s win today proves anything about Dantonio’s standing that we didn’t already know.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:15 PM ^
Yeah, and I'm planning on two of those games being losses, thank you very much. Oh, and Ped State will be losing at least one of their remaining games. And Brandon Fucking Peters is going to beat Ohio State with or without man mountain Mike Onwenu in at RG.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:17 PM ^
Encapsulates everything about college football, especially after today's fireworks.
November 4th, 2017 at 9:04 PM ^
Went 3-9. Lol.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:37 PM ^
Can't forget he just lost to northwestern. His team is out of control off the field. Doesn't turn on field success into recruiting success.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:43 PM ^
in conference. Has much better talent than many think. L.J. is a good example. Probably best h.s. runner in nation as a sr., wanted by everyone in the country. But as a whole, agree, he plays with lesser talent. Does not treat his players like I would want as a HC. I would want my son to be punished if he pulled some shit, i.e., Bullough whose dad had to intervene to have him punished. But yes, yes, yes when it comes to game time. Had his kids prepared and if its close in last couple of minutes he is going to beat you.
November 5th, 2017 at 6:58 AM ^
MSU kicked off Montez Sweat and Craig Evans despite them being on a fast-track to the NFL in the system... Several other players were basically shown the door due to their actions as well. Thiyo Lukusa preferred Ganga than complying with the rules. Corely, Vance, and King were kicked off without having their day in court because of violating the team's standards. (despite them being 3 of them being contributers and basically future stars on the team) Dantonio has gone seemingly light on a couple players but Bullough was not one of them. That was an incident outside the realm of the team, school, etc. and Bullough's family wanted him punished in football context. (It's still not public what exactly happened afaik)
You could make a case Dantonio was light on Rucker or Glenn WInston or players like that. (Rucker had off the field punishment and such but was allowed to play right away) Winston was given a second chance where some would not have given it. Normally Dantonio tries to give everyone a second chance but if you don't take advantage and shape up you get shipped off.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:38 PM ^
This thread makes me salty.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:38 PM ^
Built Stanford from nothing.
Coached in Super Bowl.
3 NFC championship games
November 4th, 2017 at 7:46 PM ^
I'm not going to miss the days where we have to use NFL achievements to defend a college football coach.
November 4th, 2017 at 8:32 PM ^
The only achievement you can claim is being a fucking troll. I feel bad for your parents.
November 4th, 2017 at 9:17 PM ^
Twice in 3 years to MSU AT HOME.
LOL!!! Maybe he can learn something from him.
November 4th, 2017 at 7:38 PM ^
I am starting to suspect he manages to poison the opponent's pre-game meal every week. They get consistently bad efforts.