Fewest B1G wins since the beginning of the 16-17 season

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Mr. Yost

December 24th, 2016 at 6:45 PM ^

Urban Meyer and Jim Harbaugh had far bigger an impact.

Dantonio is a solid coach, but when MSU rose to what it was...a big piece of that was OSU being down for a year and all the tattoo speculation about huge sanctions.

Michigan was down for a much longer period...but you also had Rich Rod who didn't recruit the state like Harbaugh is doing.

PSU was...well, you know. Sanctions, cloud over the school, negative pub, etc.

MSU was able to get kids that flat out wouldn't be in EL during that period. A guy like Ambry Thomas was going to MSU...Michigan was trying to make it up with a 3/4* kid from Florida. And sometimes we did...but that still meant the in-state kid went to MSU.

Now we're getting that kid and MSU isn't able to go somewhere else to find a similar talent. They're basically pouching kids from the MAC to make up for it.

MSU is going to struggle to get in-state talent...they'll steal a kid or two for sure. They'll win a big one every now and again. They're not going 3-8 every year. But NY6 days and being the elite B1G program year after year? That's done as long as things stay the way they are, IMO.

Joined: 07/25/2011

MGoPoints: -9898220

1974

December 24th, 2016 at 9:02 PM ^

You have 80K+ points, so you must do lots of football reading, but I think you get it only in pieces.
 
* Of course Meyer and Harbaugh have had a big impact. Tressel did pretty well too, though.
 
* You're attributing Sparty's rise partly to OSU being down for a single year? I think that's ridiculous.
 
* "... you also had Rich Rod who didn't recruit the state like Harbaugh is doing." JFC. I can't believe people still believe that. Do me a favor and make a list of the highly rated in-state players that RichRod ignored. Remember that McDowell went to MSU when Hoke was coaching.
 
* MSU succeeded mostly with guys the big-name schools didn't want (Cousins, Bell, Cook, Dennard, et al.).

Joined: 04/17/2011

MGoPoints: 7799

mgowill

December 24th, 2016 at 10:53 PM ^

Here's the recruiting trends for the last three coaches.

OH and MI recruits by year

2008 - 42.5%

2009 - 31.8%

2010 - 61.5%

RR AVG - 42.3%

2011 - 65.0%

2012 - 64.0%

2013 - 59.2%

2014 - 31.2%

Hoke AVG - 54.9%

2015 - 42.8%

2016 - 10.3%

2017 - 40.0%

JH AVG - 31.0%

Now let's break it down for the state of MI only -

2008 - 20.8%

2009 - 18.1%

2010 - 14.8%

RR AVG - 17.9%

2011 - 30.0%

2012 - 36.0%

2013 - 29.6%

2014 - 25.0%

Hoke AVG - 30.2%

2015 - 21.4%

2016 - 10.3%

2017 - 32.0%

JH AVG - 21.2%

 

Just adding some information to the discussion.

Joined: 08/31/2011

MGoPoints: 18545

truferblue22

December 25th, 2016 at 9:21 AM ^

It doesn't matter why, but msu was mostly good because we were bad. They should erect statues of RichRod, Hoke and Brandon for the 5 minutes they were good that we'll have to hear about for the rest of our lives, as they were to thank every bit as much as Mork.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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jabberwock

December 25th, 2016 at 5:54 PM ^

Look, they were able to recruit some good players that would have have gone to Michigan (or OSU or PSU or Neb) but they hardly were recruiting like Alabama. Dantollio was (perhaps still is) obviously a much better coach than RR or Hoke.

Did you notice that MSU had little trouble beating ND, PSU, Neb, Stanford, & OSU INCLUDING Michigan during that time?  That is not 100% just explained by saying "Michigan was down".
They developed lower-rateed players & coached them very well.

I wish it weren't true, but they were fantastically good for a while, at a level we haven't even equaled yet.

I'm hoping that the combination of the Alabama beat-down, Narduzi leaving, and Harbaugh owning the state & getting in Mork's head will keep them a bottom feeder for the forseeable futture, but I'm not going to bet my house on it.

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CoverZero

December 24th, 2016 at 6:40 PM ^

Dantonio needs to thank RR and Hoke, and the people who hired them...Martin and Brandon for his good fortune during his 8 year run.  It is now over.

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CalifExile

December 24th, 2016 at 8:21 PM ^

He can thank Lloyd Carr too. RR inherited the team that lost to App State - minus Hart, Henne, Long, Manningham, Arrington and Crable. Most of the returning D stars graduated a year later. RR rebuilt the team only to have the rug pulled out from under him in a way that hurt the team for years. Since DB made it clear that RR was walking wounded, many players stayed away and others, like Jake Fisher, decommitted after the actual firing.

Joined: 03/02/2010

MGoPoints: 12625

1974

December 24th, 2016 at 9:07 PM ^

People forget that MSU's streak started in '08. Part of that was lousy coaching by Rodriguez, but people seem to think he recruited the whole @#$%ing team, too. (Really -- look at some of the posts in this thread.)

MSU beat Michigan that year, '09, and '10 largely with players recruited before the coaching change. Can't blame RichRod for that part ...

I think you're being too kind about his "rebuilding," though. If he gets to stay they maybe win 8-9 games in '11 and that winds up being his peak. Look at what he's done at Arizona. Hard place to win, yes, but he has the same lousy defense, same shaky recruiting, etc.

Joined: 04/17/2011

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snarling wolverine

December 25th, 2016 at 12:51 AM ^

As a Power 5 coach, RichRod is 51-51 overall and 24-44 in B1G/Pac-12 play.  Yeah, he won a (fluky) division title two years ago, but that's the only winning conference record he's posted in the last eight years.  At some point you can't keep coming up with excuses for his mediocrity.  Eight years as a Power 5 coach is a big sample size.  It's simpler to conclude that he's just not that good of a coach.

 

 

 

Joined: 12/14/2011

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CalifExile

December 25th, 2016 at 11:38 AM ^

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure. Of course RRs record looks worse if you exclude his years at WV, a power 5 school. Maybe you think you're being clever by specifying coaching at a power 5 school while it's part of the power 5. In that case you need to subtract his time at UM, which was pre-power 5 days. Again, that would undermine your inaccurate point.

Joined: 03/02/2010

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snarling wolverine

December 25th, 2016 at 8:14 PM ^

The Big East/AAC is not a Power 5 conference.  There was a time when it was a good conference, but then Miami and Va Tech left (c. 2003) and then it went downhill.  RichRod's best seasons at WVU were after the conference declined.  He's just one of numerous coaches to look good in the post-Miami Big East and then struggle at a bigger job - Charlie Strong, Randy Edsall, Brian Kelly and Greg Schiano also come to mind.

As a Power 5 coach he's 51-51 overall and 24-44 in conference in eight years.  His record is what it is.  You can rationalize one or two bad seasons, but when you post seven losing conference records out of eight, you're probably not that good of a coach.  

 

Joined: 12/14/2011

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JonnyHintz

December 24th, 2016 at 9:42 PM ^

You can blame him for forcing a system down the throats of players and coaches who weren't fit for that system though... He didn't inherit a Rose Bowl team, but there's no reason Michigan goes 3-9 and loses to a 3-9 Toledo team with a coach who adapts his style to his current roster.

Joined: 01/11/2015

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MichiganTeacher

December 25th, 2016 at 12:01 AM ^

Jonny speaks the truth.

The next year Rodriguez confessed to Wojo that "I thought this was Michigan, you just roll them out, you'll win your share."* Idiotic confession and he should have been fired immediately for a) thinking that and b) being dumb enough to admit that he thought that.

*Every time I mention this someone says that quote was taken out of context. It was not. But I do welcome further information that could prove the lack of context; it'd be nice to forget about this because RR does seem to be a decent guy.

Joined: 10/06/2011

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ElectricWolverine

December 24th, 2016 at 10:54 PM ^

If i'm not mistaken , didn't RR think he had Terrelle Pryor all locked up and ready to committ and then obviously didn't get him. And I still don't really know what happened with Ryan Mallett. Did Carr tell him to move on , or did RR try to keep him and tell him we'll change the offense for you. Anybody know what really happened there?

Joined: 01/08/2015

MGoPoints: 38

Mike420GoBlue

December 24th, 2016 at 6:41 PM ^

Shhh we were low on that list all too recently... we can't claim historical advantage if recent history shows they dominated us. Thanks and Merry Christmas to D.B. for that wonderful era...

Joined: 09/02/2012

MGoPoints: 4707

Hotroute06

December 24th, 2016 at 6:51 PM ^

Next year will be very telling for the future of Dantonio. They've had some good recruiting classes the last 3 years so we'll see how that pans out. I think if one of there young quarterbacks turns into something special we haven't seen the last of them. Messiah deweaver had a big upside. But I agree with you Yost, With Harbaugh it doesn't matter. The state is ours again.

Joined: 09/24/2011

MGoPoints: 1204

Eye of the Tiger

December 24th, 2016 at 7:06 PM ^

They've had okay recruiting classes. #17 in 2016 and #22 in 2015. They will find some quality players in there, but this is a pretty low return on the level of success they had. And it's likely to bite them in the ass. They had a chance to level up in a sustainable and lost it. Now that Michigan and PSU both appear out to have returned to "natural" levels of success, it's going to get harder and harder for MSU to compete--not only on the field, but on the recruiting trail. As long as Dantonio is there, they'll be a pain in the ass to play. But I think they're now going to become "the Iowa of the East," i.e. a team that wins 7-9 most years, is occasionally much better than that but also occasionally much worse.



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