Did conservative offensive play calling or ineffective o-line play cost UM CFP?
Did Harbaugh and offensive staff crawl into a late game shell at Iowa and OSU or did UM not have a strong enough o-line to execute critical plays when needed? I get this line was good to very good and several members will play on Sundays. That said, in both losses (even at MSU) it seemed UM couldn't get those tough 3 to 4 yard rushing plays when needed. Defenses knew UM was running and stuffed them. Were these stops due to lackluster play calling or the o-line not being able to impose its will when needed? Thanks for any light shed on the subject.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:45 PM ^
We've had a shit run game for years. Nothing new there.
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December 4th, 2016 at 6:32 PM ^
Yeah, our offensive line is bad and our qb is mediocre at best, that, bad officiating, and bad luck ( have to be lucky AND good to win a championship) are why we're not in the playoffs.
December 4th, 2016 at 8:42 PM ^
No more making excuses for bad officiating. The refs cost Michigan both games. With competent, non-biased referees, undefeated Michigan would have played Wiscy for the BTC last night. All of the rest is smoke and mirrors.
Michigan is the #2 team in the country this year. I'm not ready to say they are better than Bama cause of how Bama cheats in recruiting, but I would have loved to find out.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:47 PM ^
Conservative calls versus OSU were, in part, due to Wilton not being 100% healthy.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:48 PM ^
This is gonna get me negged to all hell, but for all the talk about 4 hour practices and conditioning our guys ran out of steam in the 4th qtr and at the end of the season as a whole.
The only good 4th quarters were in blowouts with backups with fresh legs.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:52 PM ^
was fine, our offense could not keep the defense off the field. Conservative play calling was a factor, dropped balls were killer, and the zebras did not help anything.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:00 PM ^
No one will understand what I mean, but I felt like the team got psychologically tired at the end of the season. We didn't seem to be getting stronger and stronger in the last month. We know what a month off did for the team last year. I expect a similar result this year.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:07 PM ^
Harbaugh moving at warp speed constantly. Most people just aren't built for that and I think it's possible that a lot of the team just gets exhausted by the end of the season.
I'm sure we'll pound FSU in the bowl game just because the guys will get a little time to rest and recover.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:15 PM ^
I can see him being exhausting. I'm exhausted from this season.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^
If he was your next door neighbor you wouldn't answer the door every time he knocked.
Maybe it's just coachspeak, but the attitude that every game is a championship game would be exhausting. Sure, it's preferable to the laziness that marked the program under Hoke, but maybe dial back the effort a bit against the cupcakes. Save something for the end of the season.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:46 PM ^
Disagree here. Harbaugh is teaching consistency and professionalism. Doing your job, competing hard. It's the philosophy that Saban uses at Bama. Also places like Clemson. It's the philosophy that Carroll built at USC. It's the philosophy that got him within a play of a Super Bowl title.
It's possible the team is wearing down late in the season, but it's not the philosophy that's doing it.
December 4th, 2016 at 5:11 PM ^
Would you prefer Hoke and "the guys had a good week of practice and tried hard" bullshit??
I would not. Meyer and Saban treat every game as a championship game...why should Harbaugh not be on the same level of standards?
December 4th, 2016 at 3:07 PM ^
Yeah I don't understand what you mean. I don't think we mentally gave up in any game. Just couldn't execute enough in closer game situations. Psychologically breaking would lead to losing by multiple scores, no 1-2 points
December 4th, 2016 at 3:14 PM ^
do understand what you mean, and I don't think it was that surprising. This team was expected to break a 3 game losing streak v. State and 5 game losing streak against OSU, both on the road, win the BIG and make the CFP with a new, inexperienced QB. That is a lot on your shoulders. They fought like hell though. I am disappointed with the final outcome but not disappointed with the team. This team did a lot to bring Michigan football back, and I think we should finish out the season with them with enthusiasm as a fan base. Turn the Orange Bowl maize and blue.
December 4th, 2016 at 4:10 PM ^
To me that is the key. Amara, Jake and Jehu all had more than their share of drops. I also think Evans should have gotten more carries. He was the only effective RB against Iowa.
December 4th, 2016 at 4:15 PM ^
issue is on offense. Defense had enough rotation to cope, if - as you (ijohnb) said - the offense could keep the ball long enough.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:58 PM ^
Hard to get tired when you're going 3 & out most of the time in the 4th quarter, regardless of bad play calling or lack of ref calls.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:03 PM ^
I want to neg you for griping about negs (just make your argument and own it) but Harbaugh himself observed conditioning was an issue after Iowa (I think) and I tend to agree that the team seemed to wear down late. I don't hold this against the D, which was great in both losses and only relented late after repeated offensive failures, but the team as a whole seemed to decline. MSU is an example of this, too, IMO.
4 hour practices don't relate to conditioning, though.
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December 4th, 2016 at 3:16 PM ^
negatively.
The upside of training like Lacedaemonians all season is that it makes you tough. The downside of training like Lacedaemonians all season is that you run out of gas at the end of the season.
This is why one trains less when one wants performance to peak. Stamina has a limit no matter how motivated the participant. And it is also why teams that don't train like Lacedaemonians all season seem to get stronger at the end: Compared to those who do, they are stronger at the end.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:17 PM ^
They were practicing less late in the year. Considerably less intense if I read correctly.
December 4th, 2016 at 4:51 PM ^
Still practicing more intensely than much of their competition.
December 4th, 2016 at 5:11 PM ^
The people that win almost always are the people that train harder than everyne else. That's been validated over and over again.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:42 PM ^
Negged you for policing the neg griping.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:43 PM ^
Fair.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:47 PM ^
Upvoted for magnanimous, altruisic approach to the com box thread.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:14 PM ^
Three n out. Three n out. Three n out.
All against the best athletes in college football running a high tempo offense.
I don't care how much you practice, if your defense is on the field the whole quarter THEY ARE GOING TO BE TIRED.
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December 4th, 2016 at 2:51 PM ^
Neither.
Bad luck.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:52 PM ^
I think it's fair to say that both Lloydball play calling late in the Ohio State game and our offense's inability to run the ball when it mattered cost us a shot at a national championship this year. We are nowhere near the level of the Stanford lines Harbaugh and Drevno built, although hopefully that changes as the line transistions from a Hoke line to a Harbaugh line.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:59 PM ^
Yep, its defintely Lloyd Ball to throw on first down 75% of the time in a 17-14 game.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:03 PM ^
Hence the phrasing "late in the Ohio State game".
December 4th, 2016 at 3:16 PM ^
I should have specified. After it was 17-14, we threw on first down 75% of the time.
You think we went Lloydball because we lost. That's it.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:19 PM ^
I think we went Lloydball because the only possession that included a first down after the fourth quarter started was in overtime. That's it.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:25 PM ^
that's not Lloydball
December 4th, 2016 at 3:34 PM ^
Right. So you think we went Lloydball because of the result.
If you want just 4th quarter possessions (not counting the one starting in the 3rd that went into the 4th), Michigan went pass, run, pass and then run, run, pass.
On the second possession, the runs set up a completely manageable 3rd and 4. Speight then missed an easy slant.
We didn't get the ball back because OSU was bailed out by the officials on their 3 and out possession, a luxury Michigan never received.
December 4th, 2016 at 5:12 PM ^
We're conditioned to assume that poor offensive production in the 4th quarter is due to overly conservative playcalling, so when someone sees that we had no first downs in that quarter, the default assumption is that it was Lloydball.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:22 PM ^
charge is an oversimplification and not accurate.
JH has shown that his game plans are not run, run, pass on 3rd and 6, not matter what. Carr's game plans were totally predictable, and he just would not adjust offensive game plans during games. No. Matter. What.
JH, in contrast, will attack the weakness of an opposing D. Game plans vary depending on the opposing D. He has also made in-game adjustments many times.
OTOH, it is fair to say that in all three 'last play' play losses (MSU 2015, Iowa and OSU 2016), the play calling was less impressive late in the game.
If you only gain 5 yards in the 4th quarter, then the coaches have to go back and look how play selection was a factor in that outcome.
December 4th, 2016 at 4:52 PM ^
Does Coach D call the plays or Coach H?
December 4th, 2016 at 2:53 PM ^
Jesus Christ people, get over it. Not gonna change anything now.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:53 PM ^
Unable to hit home runs on offense. Lots of factors in that, but goes to recruiting for the most part. Hoke failed to stock the offense with stud OL, stud QB, or stud skill players. Hard to execute perfectly on offense all the time. Much easier to have a Curtis Samuel type player who can turn busted plays into TD's like Denard used to do. Offense should see improvement going forward. Hope the defense can continue at a high level.
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December 4th, 2016 at 2:53 PM ^
Move on and look forward.. these threads are redundant and useless
December 4th, 2016 at 2:53 PM ^
Both.
December 4th, 2016 at 3:02 PM ^
Theyre tied together.
The line should have been able to execute basic plays by the end of the season without the missed assignments.
The offensive staff should have known better than anyone that the o line wasnt stanford level and that the play calling needed to be a bit more aggressive than they would have liked to close out close games.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:55 PM ^
We lost games that is why we did not make it
December 4th, 2016 at 2:57 PM ^
Not being able to run out the clock at Iowa and 3 turnovers vs Osu cost Michigan a shot at the playoffs .
December 4th, 2016 at 2:56 PM ^
they did pass - some dropped, called back on the Cole facemask, etc.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:57 PM ^
Yes. The answer to your question is yes.
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December 4th, 2016 at 2:57 PM ^
Yeah, Harbaugh definitely should've gone West-coast offense with an injured QB who had already thrown two game-changing interceptions.
December 4th, 2016 at 2:59 PM ^
Definitely O line
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