The perfect angle on “the call”

Submitted by Jamezz23 on

This is the money angle I've been waiting to see... And yes I am still extremely salty... postimage

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Football

TheDirtyD

November 27th, 2016 at 9:51 PM ^

The big ten officiating crew for the game contained Daniel Capron (lead official), Kevin Schwarzel (back judge), and Bobby Sagers (side judge). See http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/112616aaa.html.

Schwartzel is an Athens, Ohio businessman who refs Big Ten games. He's also a life-long Ohio State fan. Without even taking his fandom into account, he was barred from officiating the 2006 Michigan/osu game simply by being from Ohio. Yet he officiated the game yesterday. http://www.athensnews.com/news/local/local-businessman-has-interesting-h...

Sagers is also from Ohio. This year, he was inducted into the OHSAA hall of fame, ceremony in Columbus. http://www.wsaz.com/content/sports/Fifteen-Individuals-Set-to-Enter-OHSA...

And Capron--the lead referee--was fired by the big ten in 2002 for poor officiating. 
http://www.purdueexponent.org/sports/article_f22a455e-1bc6-504f-957d-876...

So this is the situation. You have a self-pronounced life-long Ohio State fan in the position to make the no-call on Grant Perry's pass interference, and the pass-interference call on Delano Hill--crucial, game-changing calls at the end of the game. You also have an official inducted in the Ohio High School hall of fame--someone who is likely connected with other Ohio higher-ups--likely spotting the ball at the end of the game. (I'm not sure if he actually spotted it, but I'm pretty sure he's one of the guys running in from the sidelines along the yard line that he thinks the ball is on.) Whoever actually spotted the ball knew that, because overtime play starts at the 25 yard line, spotting the ball exactly on the 15 will give OSU a first down. Finally, all of this is reviewed by a lead official whom the big ten fired in 2002 for incompetence.

An OSU victory also was good for the big ten. If Michigan wins, it goes to the big ten championship, where the winner of Michigan and Wisconsin will make the playoffs; but if OSU wins, it sits home, while Wisconsin and Penn State play each other. OSU makes the playoffs, as does the winner of Wisconsin and Penn State. That's double the TV revenue on New Year's Eve for round one--money that Maryland and Rutgers and everyone else who sucks and have contributed nothing to anything get to share.

I'm not going to defame anyone and say that the game was indeed fixed. All I can do is point to inherent biases in some of the officials. And I can highlight Jim Delaney's and the big ten's "motivation" for fixing the game (again, not saying they actually did it without further proof). My hope is that we can learn from this experience and create a better process for selecting officials in the future.

Joined: 07/18/2009

MGoPoints: 17916

Heptarch

November 28th, 2016 at 9:06 AM ^

Pretty natural to complain when you get jobbed.

Also natural for the people who benefit from the jobbing to bitch smugly about the people complaining.

Joined: 12/29/2014

MGoPoints: 7023

vertiGoBlue

November 28th, 2016 at 7:21 AM ^

Perhaps it's not so much incompetence as it is the case that the tools used for determining an answer to this question are simply of insufficient precision to determine the "correct" result. Even with video review.

So, what should be done in such a situation? They have to make a decision within a relatively short time window. They cannot go back and review different photos/videos days after the event. So how *did* they make their decision? Did it look "close enough" for the spotter to rule it a first down? (Probably). And, then, of course, unless there is "clear evidence to the contrary", it will not be reversed upon video review.

I don't like it, but that's probably the most likely sequence of events.

Joined: 09/28/2010

MGoPoints: 849

MichiganMAN47

November 28th, 2016 at 7:13 AM ^

I agree with all your other points, but this was a screw job through and through. We need to run a campaign against the conference officiating and Delaney until changes are made. It would be an injustice to those players not to fight for them. We had an official wearing scarlet and gray underneath his zebra stripes. That calls into question the integrity of the game.

Joined: 02/24/2015

MGoPoints: 3216

Kevin13

November 28th, 2016 at 9:28 AM ^

any fix on for this game. However, watching the game it was obvious there was home town officiating going on and I do believe UM needs to complain about it to the B1G and make sure there are more impartial refs when we play them again. I would even lobby for officials from another conference for this game.

Joined: 01/26/2016

MGoPoints: 16040

Mgodiscgolfer

November 28th, 2016 at 12:49 AM ^

Northern asshole! Great another miserable Buttfly who has circumvented the rules for anything that can be won maybe twice in the last ten years and still has the need to come here and try and make UM fans more miserable as if that were even possible.

Go back to your trailer lock yourself in the bathroom cover your peep hole and take the front page of your local newspaper and jack-off till your dick falls off. We don't care, just find something else to do that might possibly cheer your pitiful ass up.. Leave this website to the people who don't need their toes to count past ten..

Joined: 01/13/2011

MGoPoints: 5322

Jinxed

November 27th, 2016 at 9:32 PM ^

There's obviously going to be some parallax, but using JT's hand for scale and distance I think a math person might be able to calculate approximately how far away from the line that ball was given the angle. 

I've read that first down is the middle of the line btw, not the edge of it. 

Joined: 09/15/2009

MGoPoints: 1995

TIMMMAAY

November 27th, 2016 at 9:56 PM ^

It can't be. For the goal lines, yes, but for regular yardage markers it has to work both ways, as offenses are moving in opposing directions. I guess what it boils down to in this instance is where exactly do they place the ball to start overtime? The leading edge, or centerline of the 25?

Joined: 09/08/2008

MGoPoints: 56275

BlowGoo

November 27th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^

Needs timestamp or video at that angle. Otherwise obvious argument is that forward progress not yet maximum at time of this static image [and YES of course I think he didn't make it... I'm just saying though this angle is PERFECT, it needs to demonstrate that it occurred when maximum forward motion had been achieved].

Joined: 10/16/2011

MGoPoints: 7078

M-Dog

November 27th, 2016 at 9:37 PM ^

It would be nice to see a few frames before and after.

You can get an idea if you look at any ofthe various video slo-mos that are in the last couple of threads' various twitter links.  When he hit 88's butt, he rocketed backward.  There was no forward progress from there. 

Joined: 07/06/2008

MGoPoints: 256889

LSAClassOf2000

November 27th, 2016 at 11:52 PM ^

I guess that's my big question here - to me, like a lot of other people, it looks like Barrett is short and every angle I have seen seems to confirm it, but I am biased and I would love to see a frame-by-frame breakdown of the video from the angles available to see if there is something which is being missed. At this point, most likely not because we've probably seen the frames that matter, but I wonder all the same. 

Joined: 01/07/2011

MGoPoints: 130499

Wolverine Incognito

November 27th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^

I don't think the geometry works so that you can just draw a straight line unless it is a perfect side view. However, this is the best shot so far, and while close, he is clearly short. (Which is what me and everyone at the bar knew the moment the play happened.)

Joined: 11/08/2009

MGoPoints: 5310

Real and Spectacular

November 27th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^

This has already been posted. And I think the question is, how do you know that this screen shot was where his forward progress was the furthest? Honestly, he might have been short, but this was about fifth on the list of bad calls in my opinion.

Joined: 09/15/2016

MGoPoints: 5431

I dumped the Dope

November 27th, 2016 at 9:35 PM ^

further reinforces the proof.

Watching Live, I was certain his momentum was going to carry him forward before his knee touched.  But when I saw him stop right there with the way he fell feet forward as snapped above and then fall back after contacting his own player, I knew from 300 miles away he was short.  I jumped up and said immediately in a loud voice HE DID NOT GET THAT FIRST DOWN! [children present so it had to be clean]

Joined: 09/22/2013

MGoPoints: 2342