Recruiting Class Numbers
So, i guess at some point, someone said we could sign 28 as long as we enrolled only 25 come august 1st? does that still hold?
ill set aside my opinions about the ncaa allowing schools to knowingly oversign in a scenario where all 28 kids may actually qualify (what do you do then?).
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then at one point, someone said the class could actually goto 29? this was the witty signing, the extra player being allowed to count against last years class. 25(28)+witty(29)? how does this work???
a couple clarifications on this point. were we supposedly being allowed to count ONE player against last years class because after walkon ships and on-time graduates we came in at 84 players on ship? seems hard to believe since i thought we were closer to 70 actually scholarship recruits on the roster.
which brings me to my next question... since we signed enrolled 21 kids last year, could we have counted up to FOUR kids back to last year? ie, would that have allowed us to sign 25(28) this year PLUS 4 more kids, for a potential 32 player class?
i always thought the big10 'sign 28 rule' INCLUDED the backsigning kids, ie 25 kids and up to 3 you could count back.
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obviously, im a confused person. can someone help me with the real numbers? with witty and drake likely out, it seems like we're at 23 right now? with drake out, the likely number of qualifier ratio goes up.
so if youre going to assume all will qualify (still maybe not the case? kinard/ash?). how many can we really sign? is it 25? is it 26 because we're allowed to count one back? to not confuse the situation, id rather not assume one of the current 23 will greyshirt. i dont even want to go there yet.
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HELP ME UNDERSTAND!!!
Thanks in advance
January 8th, 2010 at 7:49 PM ^
There must be over 500 threads on this. And that's not the problem.
The problem is that if you get 45 replies, you'll get 45 different answers.
Signing day is less than a month away. I'd just wait til then because January is the month when the shit hits the fan and no one really knows what is going to happen.
See: Pete Carroll to Seattle. One big domino about to fall.
January 8th, 2010 at 7:55 PM ^
Yeah the right answer is 28, the big ten allows 28 LOIs to be signed. 28, only 28, no more than 28, 28 or less.
January 8th, 2010 at 8:02 PM ^
That's why Minnesota signed 30 recruits two years ago. AND precisely why UM boards feel UM can go to 29 this year.
It's whacky.
January 8th, 2010 at 8:03 PM ^
Cleric: And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
Brother Maynard: Amen.
All: Amen.
King Arthur: Right. One... two... five.
Galahad: Three, sir.
King Arthur: Three.
January 8th, 2010 at 8:53 PM ^
+1 for dropping some monty python on us
January 8th, 2010 at 8:20 PM ^
so the number is 28? but what, we can only enroll 25 come aug1? what about in the scenario where we only signed 22 last year?
so in the end, is it 25? or is it more?
January 8th, 2010 at 9:11 PM ^
I might be wrong with this since its just from reading so many threads about this, but the implication I get is that we can enroll 29.
The reason being is that we can back date early enrollment scholarships to last year. By this (and this is just how I seem to understand) its referring to the fact that the scholarship is based on the academic calendar year, not the actual year. That's why early enrollments, who are students during the 2009-2010 academic year, can be backdated.
And if I'm mistaken, please correct me.
January 8th, 2010 at 9:28 PM ^
what is the 28 rule then? its def a big10 rule of some sort.
January 8th, 2010 at 9:45 PM ^
review this diary by umhero...
http://mgoblog.com/diaries/ncaa-scholarship-limit-review
If my memory serves me right is should answer most of your questions, I've tended to lean on his examination of this years class numbers over the past couple of months.
January 8th, 2010 at 10:29 PM ^
The NCAA allows schools to sign 25 recruits per recruiting year as long as the schools stay below the allowed 85 scholarship athletes.
The NCAA also allows schools to backdate the scholarships of athletes who enroll mid-year (EEs), as long as the previous class does not exceed 25 players and the team stays below 85 total scholarships. This is how schools can go above 25 recruits without actually going above 25 with the way the NCAA counts.
The final restriction comes from the BigTen who limits schools to 28 LOIs (Letter of intent to go to whatever school). That means a maximum of 28 scholarship freshman can be added to a roster as long as the previous year doesn't exceed 25 recruits and the total scholarships doesn't exceed 28.
Example:
A bigten school has a full roster of 85 players in 2009 and will be graduating 27 players. In 2008 they were only able to hand out 19 new scholarship offers including 1 EE (which was backdated) before hitting the 85 scholarship limit. The team recruits a full 27 new players to replace those that graduated in 2009, 8 EEs and 19 end of term enrollees.
2008
66 on scholarship
+18 end of term scholarships (the non-EEs)
+1 backdated EE {B}
=18 scholarships 2008 as NCAA sees it {A}
=19 LOIs as bigten sees it
=68 on scholarship (+1 spring)*
=85 on scholarship (+18 Fall)*
2009
58 on scholarship ( -27 from graduation)
+19 end of term scholarships
+8 backdated EEs
+1 EE
=20 scholarships 2009 as NCAA sees it
=27 LOIs as bigten sees it
=66 on scholarship (+8 spring)*
=85 on scholarship (+19 fall)*
Although the team had 9 EEs in 2009 they could only backdate 8 of them or they would have exceeded the NCAA limit of 25 scholarships per term {25possible-18{A}=7possible +1backdated in 2008{B}=8 possible backdated EEs for 2009]. That means 1 EE will still be admitted in January with the other EEs but will be counted towards the 25 scholarship limit of 2009 not 2008 where the other EEs are backdated*. That leaves the potential for 5 backdated EEs for the team's 2010 recruiting class as long as they don't exceed 85.
*I made the assumption that everyone graduated at the end of the calendar year to simplify the example as much as possible. Teams also have to make sure that they do not exceed the 85 roster limit when EEs are added to active rosters.
Hopefully this gives you some understanding and not just confuse you more.
January 10th, 2010 at 2:16 PM ^
are your 2008/2009 a hypothetical set? those dont look like familiar actual numbers. how do you see it for us now with drake/witty out?
January 8th, 2010 at 7:52 PM ^
When did Drake leave and where is he going?
January 8th, 2010 at 7:56 PM ^
From what everyone's said here he was having problems qualifying.
January 8th, 2010 at 7:56 PM ^
I love that kid
January 8th, 2010 at 8:08 PM ^
now you can love dillon baxter i feel it!!
January 8th, 2010 at 8:11 PM ^
Talked to a current Michigan commit, sounds like RB Tony Drake won't be a part of this recruiting class.
12:22 PM Jan 6th from web
January 8th, 2010 at 8:05 PM ^
who swears that we sometimes get an entire thread by a single poster with different handles?
(especially the "remaining recruits/depth chart/2010 roster" threads?)
January 8th, 2010 at 9:21 PM ^
To quote Malibu Stacy "Math is hard". Let's face it, nobody knows the answer to this problem.
January 9th, 2010 at 3:04 AM ^
i think that we can take 29. 4 can be backdated to last years 21 man class (total 25). then another 25 can be taken in this class as well...as long as we don't go over the maximum team scholarship amount (which shouldnt be a problem).
January 9th, 2010 at 5:32 AM ^
Assuming we do not go over 85 total (and that depends on what RR does with 5th years and walk-ons), the answer is 28 (plus Witty, if he enrolled).
SCHOLARSHIP LIMITS: (25 per Class / 85 Total)
NCAA rules limit the total number of scholarships at any time to 85. NCAA rules also limit the number of scholarships in any one class to 25 (based on school year not calendar year), though they do give schools some flexibility by allowing them to count EEs either in the current class (i.e. 2009/2010 class) or the upcoming class (i.e. 2010/2011 class).
SIGNING LIMITS: (NCAA Class limit + 3)
Big Ten rules limit the number of players schools can SIGN in any year (this is calendar year not school year or class). The limit is three more than the number of scholarships you can have in the upcoming class under NCAA rules. So, if RR can "configure" it so that 25 scholarship players in the upcoming class does not push us over the total scholarship limit of 85, then the Big Ten rule will allow us to sign 28 players in 2010 (25 + 3). Witty was signed in 2009, so he does not count against the 28.
TOTAL NEW PLAYERS UNDER SCHOLARHSIP THIS FALL: (25 + 3EEs + Witty)
If we had no EEs but signed 28 players, we would need to get rid of at least 3 signees before the fall semester because we only can give scholarships to 25 as part of the 2010/2011 class. However, since we have at least 3 EEs, 3 of the 28 players signed in 2010 can be counted in the 2009/2010 class instead of the 2010/2011 class. The same is true for Witty. If he enrolls this semester, he also can be counted in the 2009/2010 class. Note that we have plenty of room in the 2009/2010 class, because we only signed 22 players in 2009 and one (Witty) did not qualify. This means we have at most 21 scholarships in the 2009/2010 class currently and can add at least 4 more (21 + 4 = 25), again provided we do not go over the total of 85. The 4 will be Witty plus the 3 extra 2010 signees.
QED
January 9th, 2010 at 5:50 AM ^
witty is not going to be a member of the michigan football family. so, like i said, 29.
January 10th, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^
the numbers almost seem plausible- they just conflict some with whats been said lately.