Average Debt and Starting Salary for Business School Graduates
Chart: Average Debt and Starting Salary for Business School Graduates
Saw this come across my Linkdin feed today. Hadn't seen it posted, intersting stuff.
The chart below shows the average debt and debt-to-salary ratio for the 10 MBA programs where 2014 graduates earned the highest starting salaries. Schools that didn’t submit the average debt of 2014 graduates to U.S. News in an annual survey were excluded from the chart. The salary and debt data in this chart are correct as of June 4, 2015.
Stanford University is the No. 1 business school and graduates who are employed within three months after graduation tend to earn the highest annual salary, according to what the school reported to U.S. News.
In North Carolina, students who borrowed to attend Duke University's Fuqua School of Business, ranked No. 16, left school with more debt than they are likely to earn in salary. The average starting salary for Duke graduates is $114,109 and the average debt $115, 201.
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/2015/06/…
I always find info like that really interesting. And because money is such a conversational taboo in the USA, it's nice to see behind the curtain a bit.
Since there are a lot of lawyers on here, thought they might find this infographic of interest too:
TY for this
These salary numbers looks low compared to most other states where UM Law grads head after law school. Detroit, sadly, is just not a national market. Also, three of the top 5 paying specialties are the lawyers people love to hate.
While not a lawyer, I will say that the top-paying specialties did not shock me at all, although I wouldn't have guess product liability was the top one per se. Then again, when you look at some of the massive recalls on various things lately, I can sort of see where being in that particular field can mean some nice change at the end of a suit.
I am a lawyer in MI who has worked on both coasts.
(1) these numbers are very low..not accurate
(2) not that HUGE a difference from Detroit to most places except Manhattan/NY.
I think this is somehow flawed.
They are. The Detroit market sucks for pay, even for a secondary market. For instance, starting pay for large firms in Charlotte is between $130k and $145k. Would you rather be making that or $105k-$110k in Detroit, where cost of living is higher (particularly home prices)? Almost all other major secondary markets pay more than Detroit. That may be due to the fact that there is a very small presence of national firms. Looks like that's changing now, so we'll see if the pay changes along with it.
in Detroit. I know two people who worked for a Detroit Law firm right out of Michigan Law where the base pay was around $150,000 and salaries rose quickly from there. This was before the bottom fell out, but I'm guessing top law firms still pay top dollar. Could be wrong though.
And because money is such a conversational taboo in the USA,It's a taboo in pretty much every country. In some, even asking about a person's occupation is considered in poor taste.
I realize that people often judge the relative worth of a person based on their wealth (or lack thereof) despite the obvious faults with such a judgment. That may be part of the reason why such taboo's exist.
That being said, I think transparency is a great thing for the average worker. I'm fortunate to be in a field (lawyering) where there's less of a black box vis-a-vis salaries given that (1) the salary and bonus info for most large law firms is publicly available and (2) headhunting firms have good resources for in-house salaries as well. And you often see associates switching firms when they realize their current employer is stiffing associates compared to competitors.
However, many fields don't have that transparency and that usually works to the advantage of employers. Just my $.02
Has been an excellent resource for me to see where I am and help negotiate with my past employers. It can be very hard to judge where you are without knowing where everyone else is.
Interesting chart. I haven't worked in the MI market in years, but when I was there I remember seeing some of these stats and cocking an eyebrow because they are a bit misleading. Not that they are incorrect on their face, but they infer that lots of these positions exist anywhere, which isn't really true. The number of attorney positions in any state tend to be less than the available pool of attorneys, so you get a fair number of individuals with law degrees who either make less or are completely out of the market. So while a starting associate makes good money, there might only be 600 of those positions across all firms in the state at any given time (I'm spitballing that number so it may be off, but I'm guessing not by much). Yet, the number of bar passers in a year seems to be around 1,000 if you combine the two periods.
I guess my point is that if you are looking to make money as your main goal, business school seems like a better ROI, and I'd argue if you don't get into a top-15-ish law school or have some specialty to fall back on, it probably isn't worth it.
Public defenders - disgustingly underpaid for their workload. Wow.
That is what I was going to say. I have an MBA from a "Top 50" B-School but more important to me than "ranking" was the marketplace I was going to be working in afterwards. My experience was that the MBA program allowed me to interact with peers that ultimately landed me a job in the industry I wanted. And because the program wasn't some "nationally elite" MBA, I graduated with relatively little debt (actually used the Stafford Loans to pay for some other bills while in school) and very significant income.
For me, going back to get an MBA is the single best career decision I have ever made.
MBA's are an investment. The question is do you see the payoff over the course of a career that outweighs the cost (debt/opportunity cost).
For most of the top programs (Mich, Duke, NW, Harvard) the answer is unquestionably yes. Add in the networking benefits, and it is generally a no-brainer.
No standard dev? Who knows if there is a high number of individuals towards the high end and low end of the spectrum or if everyone is clumped around the median.
People never account for *where" you work and live with these statistics. Making $200k a year in NYC or San Francisco is pretty much middle class. If you're making $200k a year in the midwest you can pretty much buy whatever you want.
Well, take $200k in New York for example. On $200k of income you'll be paying federal taxes of ~$45k, SS and Medicare of about $10k, New York state taxes of about $12k and New York City taxes of about $7k. So you'd net about $125k.
Add in an apartment at $5k a month (which is modest by NYC standards), that's $60k a year right there. Then throw in transportation, food, entertainmentt etc, and you might be about to put away $20-30k a year. All this assuming you don't have any student debt to pay off either.
Are you scraping by on $200k a year? No. Are you living the high life? Probably not. Thus, middle class...maybe upper middle.
My average debt is too high
my average salary is too low.
Fire Brandumb
IMO, those Ross numbers on the income side are probably skewed downward a bit; a good chunk of us Ross Alums do willingly stay in Michigan. Starting salaries in Michigan are a tad lower than elsewhere; but, the low cost of living and relatively high salaries Post-MBA make it tough to leave Michigan. An MBA should be considered an investment . . . but recognize that 500-1000 a month payments for 30 years isn't fun. Still, I'd do it all over again . . . Ross has been great!
does it bug anyone else that for debt they called it "average" but for salary they called it "mean"?
I know they are synonyms but why not list them as the same since they are on the same chart?
So its just me thats bugged by this? I thought so
I'd like to see one for different departments in the college of engineering.
A little surprising to me about Fuqua. Stern makes sense because student debt is massive for there and Columbia (cost of living in NYC).
The average starting salary for Duke graduates is $114,109 and the average debt $115, 201.That's still a considerably more enviable position than that of a lot of liberal-arts grads, who carry similar debt but have far lower starting salaries.
I think the article misstates the value of an MBA. Nobody graduates from medical school with a salary that covers his/her student debt, yet we always encourage people to become doctors because the longer-term value added justifies the cost. So if you can graduate from a top-ranked business school, sure you'll be sitting on some hefty debt, but you'll also have a degree in your pocket (and connections) that will provide a nice multiplier to your earning potential down the line.
Ultimately, I guess, it doesn't much matter to most people; at some point you'll make enough money to afford what you want and live comfortably, and the stresses associated with a "better" job (increased pressure on performance, traveling, time commitments, etc.) outweigh the financial gains.
Although brain/spine surgeons can earn more in a single year as an attending $1,000,000+, than they have in student loan debt, usually between $250k and $600k on the high side.
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An MBA only makes sense for me if: 1) I go to a top 10-type program AND 2) I decide I want to be in banking or consulting because the debt + foregone wages are too big of a loss to cover the increase in salary w/ an MBA (even including faster rate of comp growth w/ an MBA).
My advice: if you want an MBA, try for a top 5/10 program (HBS, Stanford GSB, Wharton, Kellogg, etc.), and if you don't get in/don't want to get an MBA, see if your employer will pay for your EMBA. Every EMBA I've met is company-sponsored and works full-time, so you won't have any debt and you'll be making $$.
a lot depends on career trajectory. If you are rising quick and getting promoted with lots of raises and making 100K then I would say hold off on the MBA because the two years working will be way more beneficial.
If you have career stalled it may be worth going back even if the money at the end is same as current as it raises the ceiling on your earnings potential.
As someone noted above its not a point in time current figure. Your debt repayment will be fixed / month (unless you have a floating rate loan obviously), while your earnings should (hopefully) be going up every year. If going back (or to school) doesn't provide that then its frankly not a good investment; I would say look to community or smaller colleges part time that give you the line on your resume but don't carry the flash.
obviously thats like my opinion man
MBA at Ross makes sense at nearly every level. The breadth of courses and the networking abiltiy is beneficial immediately . . . but, what it can do in terms of helping your 10-25 years down the road is amazing. A decade later and I have flexibility in terms of what I want to do and when I want to do it . . . There are more benefits than the money . . . All that said, if you are going MBA, go Top 10 otherwise, the justification get's fuzzier.
The business school should be renamed Faq U!
still pretty hard to beat an engineering degree in terms of an ROI.
Bust your ass for 4 years, and nearly any career path is open, and you can be making what an MBA grad makes without dropping $100k and missing out on two years of lost income.
upper 20s here, and i'm making ballpark what these MBA grads are, working easy 35-40 hr weeks. No consulting, Sunday night-Friday traveling, 60 hour weeks staying in a La Quinta in BFE for 3 months.
Would love to add an MBA to be more well rounded, but it just doesn't make sense financially.
I don't have an engineering degree, but got a BS with a math major; close to a similar result.
I honestly don't understand why every degree isn't viewed as an ROI. I get that not everyone is cut out to be an engineer or MBA or whatever, but studying something that has limited job prospects just doesn't seem to make sense for me. There are plenty of local schools or instate schools or more affordable ways to get a degree than full time out of state or private schools with heavy debt loads.
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November 19th, 2019 at 5:28 AM ^
As far as I can see, the debt is still higher than their future salary. That's very unfair from a social point. Nevertheless, we have such a reality and we should be able to cope with it. So, I would advise you to do your best to repay all the debts on time because the meeting with this agency can be an unpleasant surprise for you.