Collinsworth on Manningham
Did I miss the news report where Mario Manningham took Cris Collinsworth's mom out for a nice seafood dinner and never called her again? Collinsworth has been killing Manningham for "technical errors" that seem pretty petty to me. Manningham has run a few good routes that I feel Eli has thrown just a bit too far outside. Maybe Fitzgerald or Wayne catches those and gets his feet down but even your standard above-average NFL receiver is going to have trouble getting both his feet down in those situations.
One of my biggest pet peeves is when a receiver doesn't catch the ball because he's so concerned about getting his feet down in bounds. Manningham is doing a fine job looking the ball into his hands after getting open. He's just gotten a bit unlucky imo. Why is Collinsworth being such a dick?
December 13th, 2009 at 11:45 PM ^
Yeah I completely agree. And actually, right after the missed TD that you mentioned, Manningham caught a 10 yard pass, but couldn't get out of bounds because the defender bear-hug-tackled him. Collinsworth and Michaels immediately went into a rant about how he didn't try to get out of bounds.
December 13th, 2009 at 11:44 PM ^
manningham HAS cost the giants 14 pts today and his route running is the reason hakeem nicks starts over him now.
December 13th, 2009 at 11:49 PM ^
I respect your opinion but would argue that Eli's throws are 50% to blame for those 14 points.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:43 AM ^
Do you think Coughlin just didn't want to hurt Eli's feelings and benched Manningham for no reason? Players don't get benched for reasons other than performance or attitude, so unless Mario has an attitude problem, which I haven't heard, then performance was the reason.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:11 AM ^
If Eli threw those balls towards the back of the endzone instead of the side of the endzone, or even the back corner, Manningham probably has no trouble keeping both feet in bounds.
Collinsworth really did kill him last night, which was kind of lame.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:18 AM ^
How many passes did Hicks drop including one for sure TD. If it wasn't for the Eagles feeble tackling attempts on his TD catch Nicks was horrible in the first half. I didn't watch the second half so I don't know if his play got any better.
December 14th, 2009 at 10:21 AM ^
-Nick dropped a sure TD, then dropped a 40 yard pass the next the play. The NEXT play, he spun out of a tackle and ran 60 yards for a TD.
-Dominick Hixon fumbled a kick-off, then later scooted 50+ yards for a TD.
-Mario Manningham cost the Giants 4 points by failing to get his feet in, then proceeded to cost them a vital 1:40 of gametime by, again, not getting his feet in bounds in the endzone, then cost them another 20 seconds by actually failing to get OUT of bounds.
Do you see the difference?
December 13th, 2009 at 11:54 PM ^
but it is true that a WR's route often dictates whether the QB is able to keep a pass in bounds.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:01 AM ^
Collinsworth used to play WR, so I can understand if he's harder on that position in his commentary. If you saw the play where Manningham beat Sheldon Brown, it was clear that he kept drifting to the sideline whereas he could have taken it back in (Brown was beat by 8+ yards) and caught the ball in the endzone with room to spare.
I also recall another Giants game on Sunday night where Manningham ran a fade on the right sideline and caught the ball out of bounds because he kept taking it to the sideline. Collinsworth was on that game too . . . pretty sure it's been a trend and not just Collinsworth blasting him tonight
December 14th, 2009 at 12:02 AM ^
If we're talking about the play where Colinsworth criticized Manningham for not pressing the corner to the inside enough, then I have to agree with CC on this one. Manningham made no effort give himself space on the sideline, and as a result he had no room to make the catch.
As another poster said above, it's equally annoying when receivers can't hold onto the ball because they're too busy with other stuff.
That's why it's tough to be a good receiver...
December 14th, 2009 at 12:04 AM ^
...including your QB and/or WR playing/coaching experience. Until then I will take the word of an NFL veteran and starting WR in a Super Bowl. Just b/c he was good at double move vertical routes at Michigan doesn't mean he can run good underneath routes at the NFL level.
I don't know of any reason (neither do you, according to your post) why Collinsworth would be biased against him.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:12 AM ^
I'm sure I'll never have the football knowledge that you've shown in previous posts, but I've played enough to know there are intricacies of some positions that aren't obvious. The first time I was yelled at for not catching a ball in-bounds, I thought the coach was nuts to blame me instead of the QB who threw it out of bounds...
December 14th, 2009 at 5:49 AM ^
but for that play in question, Collinsworth had 2 points.
1) Manningham should have had his feet down (BTW it was a post, not an underneath route); and
2) Manningham should have turned inside towards the post, instead of staying outside.
For point 1, who knows. Maybe his inability to do so is why he is the Giant's #3 guy and was a 3rd rounder (not a first round pick). He's not their star 1st round, top paid draft pick who is a bust. He's the #3 3rd round pick. Therefore blasting him for that is a bit uncalled for.
For point 2, if Eli isn't on the same page, improvising a route is dangerous. Coaches would be pissed that he didn't follow the play as it was designed. That criticism falls on the coaches for not running the play that way (or maybe to Eli for not calling an audible).
Now, I'm positive that you have forgotten more football that I ever knew (this is true, as I never played/ coached on any level), but Manningham can't be blamed for the route choice and is a #3 guy for a reason (he's not as good as Nix or Smith), and if Plax were around, he'd be the #4 guy.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:06 AM ^
This whole argument you've made boils down to "Well, he's not very good, so Colinsworth shouldn't criticize him for not being good."
The simple fact is that both those plays that he failed to make last night were plays that you'd expect an NFL receiver to make - he did not. If your argument is that "well, he was a 3rd rounder (which is still a decently high pick), so he shouldn't have those high expectations," well - he shouldn't be expected to play well? I don't get it. If he wants to be a good player, he'll have to play well.
This is a problem he's shown all year (again, I've seen ever play of every Giants game), and it cost them a chance to win the game last night. If he catches the 2nd TD ball he failed on, the Giants are kicking off with 1:40 MORE left on the clock, which means they're likely kicking it deep - which would have given them close to 2 minutes on the clock, with better field position. Nevermind that had he caught the first ball, they would have only needed a FG.
He messed up. Everytime a Michigan player fucks up, and a member of the media bashes him for it, it's not unjustified scrutiny.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:48 AM ^
... I didn't have anything against CC's point. I thought it was actually interesting to hear about the more subtle skills of route running. I just didn't like when they starting joking about him not getting out of bounds on the subsequent pass. It just seemed like they were picking on him.
December 14th, 2009 at 1:01 AM ^
I've watched every Giants game this season. Manningham, on approximately 10 occasions, has lost catches because of his failure to get his feet inbounds. What you saw tonight was the most recent manifestation of what's gotten him bust down to the Giants' 4th receiver - he's a shitty route runner.
December 14th, 2009 at 1:09 AM ^
Because Collinsworth is a dick.
End of story.
December 14th, 2009 at 2:03 AM ^
Eli's not the most accurate passer, but I still think Manningham is young and needs to work on his game. Maybe the Giants could bring back Amani Toomer to work with him, who incidentally was one of the best receivers I have seen at getting his feet in. My fellow Giants friends, called him Toe-tappin Toomer.
December 14th, 2009 at 2:56 AM ^
It's not just Manningham. Collinsworth is pretty tough on wide receivers in general. While he does have some pretty good points, I think he goes overboard sometimes. He blasted Manningham for not running a post when the middle of the field was open on the TD that got overturned, but Eli threw the ball before Mario made his cut. If Mario ran a post, he wouldn't have been anywhere near the ball. I agree with him about not drifting to the sidelines too much but I don't see how he can assume that Manningham has the liberty to alter every route on the fly.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:32 AM ^
that Cris Collinsworth's mom is a saint.
/Anchorman quote
December 14th, 2009 at 8:34 AM ^
As a Giants fan I've watched all his games and IMO he needs to work on his route running. This is his first year really seeing the field so I'm not shocked he's still raw.
But I do know one thing. I think Jeff Feagles has finally gotten old. Hasn't punted well this year. I would like Jerry Reese to please use a late round pick to bring Space Emperor Zoltan to Jersey.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:47 AM ^
Wait till next year on Manningham. It's been widely proved and reported that a ton of MFL wideouts make their leap in year 3......hopefully Mario isnt so buried on the depth chart that its doesnt keep him from his Year 3 Leap.
Need an example? Look at his teammate Steve Smith. Big explosion in production in his this, his third year. Over 80 catches, coule get to 100, will break Amani Toomer's single season NYG franchise record.
Patience on Mario, Giants Fans.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:21 AM ^
Where have you people been? It is common knowledge that any commentator who criticizes a current or former Michigan player is either a dick, dumb, or simply mistaken. The same goes for any referee who makes a call that goes against any current or former Michigan player. It has nothing to do with fans' perception biases, it is simply reality that these people are out to get Michigan.
December 14th, 2009 at 10:09 AM ^
Collinsworth wishes he had Manningham's swagger. lol
December 14th, 2009 at 10:25 AM ^
I thought CC crticisms of Manningham were legit. On the first play, CC made a persuasive case that MM needs to sell the inside move. MM made a perfunctory motion inside, that the DB ignored, and then went outside. Eli threw the ball the only place he could that allowed MM to catch it and stay in bounds. And let's be clear, staying in bounds is just as important as catching the ball. MM had the space to stay in bounds but he didn't know where the line was. A good reciever has to know where the line is and get his foot in bounds.
Nix made his share of mistakes also and CC was very strident in his resulting criticism.
December 14th, 2009 at 10:37 AM ^
Watch this interview with collinsworth. Anything he says is true, no complaining.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8HdOEStmrs
December 14th, 2009 at 10:48 AM ^
This is so strange. I thought the exact same thing as the OP, and I'd never have guessed that Chris Collinsworth would have gotten the kind of support that I see in the Comments above.
I don't pay a lot of atention to the NFL, and I won't ever claim to have seen all of the Giants games, although I've seen more Giants games than Lions games this year. And, I'd never claim to have the expertise of Chris Collinsworth.
To me, it appeared that Mario Manningham came within mere inches of two amazing circus catches on balls that were thrown where almost no one could catch them and still manage to come down in bounds. I didn't get the criticism at all. But, it's the NFL. I will readily confess; the only reason I watch NFL football is as a curiosity, when there is no live golf on, and when some Michigan guys are playing.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:08 AM ^
Are they circus catches when they hit him directly in the hands?
Most NFL receivers get 2 TD's off those plays.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:03 AM ^
Funny, when he was at Michigan they had to make a special playbook for him. Every route in his book was 2 yards longer than what everyone elses said. So say he ran a slant at 12 yards, his playbook would say 14, or if he ran a curl at 8 yards, his would say 10. He could never run the right route and would cut stuff off 2 yards early all the time. So they simply made his routes 2 yards longer and never told him.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:08 AM ^
This is a great story, but what is your source?
December 14th, 2009 at 12:10 PM ^
A QB on the team.
December 14th, 2009 at 2:51 PM ^
is not the rat.
He said so in his rap video.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:12 AM ^
Collinsworth wasn't being too hard on him. Collinsworth was just making an observation based on continued patterns Manningham has shown throughout the season. I love Manningham for obvious reasons but he has to get his feet down in those situations and I would be a tad ticked if I was a Giants fan.
Seriously, I don't get the Collinsworth hate by a lot of people when he's a genius in comparison to many other color guys. Whoever thought it was a good idea to give Phil Simms a job in TV should be shot.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:16 AM ^
Phil Simms is a SAINT you shutyourgoddamwhoremouth.
December 14th, 2009 at 2:29 PM ^
so-so QB; below average commentator. No sugarcoat.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:17 AM ^
All I know is that Mario ran the perfect route on that slant against Penn State and I refuse any sympathy for a Manning in any way, shape or form his fault or not.
December 14th, 2009 at 1:17 PM ^
is one of the most over hyped QB's in NFL. So Mario might be running his routes bad bud ultimately the Giants have a very average QB. He needs to give some of that money Peyton, then to Asante Samuel, David Tyree, Justin Timberlakes gum, the 2007 Giants Defense & every other defensive player who didn't intercept his miracle throws into triple coverage on the way to winning that SB. Bet deep down Giants fans really wish they had Rivers now. Especially with all that talent they have. Welcome to mediocrity NY. You are stuck with it for a long long time.