OT: Penn State's vacated wins returned
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12179571/joe-paterno-111-wins-were-vacated-restored
I don't know about the forum but I'm absolutely disgusted by this. Pedophile U created a culture of abuse over many years and their "punishment" has hardly been just that. There's been zero accountability at that institution for the top down failures of leadership in the president's office, the athletic department, and the surrounding community.
You just know students will be celebrating this tonite in State College. I'm sick and tired of that fan base's worship of JoePa and their claims that it wasn't his fault.
My heart aches for the victims who got bullshit justice in the first place -- bowl bans and vacated wins? That were lifted early?
Penn State should have got the death penalty!
January 16th, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
just wow.
So if a Michigan legislator files suit on behalf of the Fab Five...
January 16th, 2015 at 5:06 PM ^
Every school should go back and ask for any wins they gave up. Obviously it's been known for a while now, but the NCAA is officially a joke. Why would anyone accept their punishment?
I guess the NCAA feels it's perfectly ok to help coverup for pedophiles.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:15 PM ^
The NCAA being the NCAA...
January 16th, 2015 at 1:49 PM ^
is a stupid punishment. What happened there was unspeakable, but I don't see how deleting PSU's wins was a punishment at all.
Fine the school and make sure all that money goes to the victims and for sexual abuse prevention.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:43 PM ^
Why not enforce both punishments? Arguably the main reason the whole thing was covered up was to protect the football program. The cover up indirectly led to success on the football field (no PR issues, no negative effect on recruiting, etc.), so why not punish the football program as well?
January 16th, 2015 at 3:22 PM ^
Because NCAA = Joke
January 16th, 2015 at 3:31 PM ^
and Sandusky is in jail. If anyone else was found to be involved in the conspiracy or cover-up, charge them criminally too.
I'm not a fan of group punishments. And put the shoe on the other foot.
What if it came to light that Bo or Lloyd had a pederast on their staff? Would you be comfortable with our team being punished for the actions of others that took place years or even decades ago?
January 16th, 2015 at 4:02 PM ^
The point was that football AND joepa were the most improtant things at that school. joepa was the most powerful man at that school and ran the place; the president there would be concerned about being fired by joepa. He kept quiet about sandusky's dark side so as to not besmirch his regime and not bring down the cult of joepa. If any of those young boys were his relatives, especially the one in the shower, joepa sure as HELL would have done more than just notify his superiors or restrict the pedofile from psu facilities. Back in the day, people like joepa took a very liberal view towards domestic violence and pedofiles, and did everything they could not to make the accused feel bad. Stripping him of the victories is a way to set right the cult of joepa.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:23 PM ^
and I'm not trying to argue that a punishment wasn't appropriate. But JoPa is dead. Depending on your beliefs he's either burning in hell or just being eaten by worms. Taking away his wins isn't going to change that.
Maybe the better thing to do is to restore the wins, but mention that JoPa covered up a child rape conspiracy every time his name is mentioned. Put his statue back up, but engrave it with a message about what he did.
Vacating the wins and deleting JoPa from history seems like it would serve to gloss over the crimes. Better to have it out there right in the open.
January 16th, 2015 at 7:26 PM ^
also act as deterrents.
This is the most generous assessment of what Paterno did wrong:
Paterno knew he had a pedophile roaming his football building (Lasch building) for 10 long years after his grad assistant (McQueary). Sure, Paterno told the AD Curley, but after that he washed his hands of that child and the children Sandusky sexually molested after that when he never followed up to find out why nothing had been done.
The other possibility is that Paterno talked his AD out of reporting this to the PA DPW. We'll probably never know the truth as the AD will never come clean about what was discussed with Paterno.
If you can't sanction a university for sitting on a report of child sexual abuse for 10 years, you can't sanction any university for anything.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
This is making me physically ill.
It's not a matter of the actual win count...it's that punishing the football program for harboring a predator is being ignored.
I don't care, I'm glad JoePa is dead. I just wish the football team and the cult culture he created would be buried with him.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:48 PM ^
Removing all sharp objects from my office in anticipation of Michael Weinreb's breathless account about how the world makes sense again and this is true justice.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:25 PM ^
My sentiments exactly....
January 16th, 2015 at 4:08 PM ^
I think vacating wins is indirectly punishing everyone involved with the team who had nothing to do with what happened. I don't mind it.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:26 PM ^
You seem to miss the joepa had EVERYTHING to do with that situation and could have mitigated the abuse. It is to set right the cult or sainthood of joepa.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:35 PM ^
JoePa didn't win the football games singlehandedly. Two Big Ten titles vacated because of something that happened long before those players stepped on campus. That doesn't seem fair to me. Quite frankly, I don't give enough fucks to argue about this because I really don't care. I just know the reaction on this site was scandalous and wanted to see if stances softened.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:52 PM ^
So you are more concerned about hurting the feelings of the football team members, who are grown men now, that got stripped of it's title than the boys who were abused. The point is to not only punish the cult of joepa but to also make sure that EVERYONE in sports know that morals and ethics are important. If I were on a joepa team and had him as a coach, I would feel sick and disgusted knowing what he did and didn't do - assuming I was not delusional like most psu fans.
January 16th, 2015 at 9:13 PM ^
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January 16th, 2015 at 4:18 PM ^
January 16th, 2015 at 6:03 PM ^
There's more than one article about it out today, but that's all I've got to say about that.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
I didn't know you could un-abuse kids. Absolute garbage.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
Next they will put Paterno's name back on the conference Trophy. I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, he knew about the abuse and Sandusky and he let it go. If they keep this up, he'll be deified again. Just Sad what this says about the victims and the system of abuse at PSU for years
January 16th, 2015 at 1:22 PM ^
but gave him an OFFICE and let his charity work with boys go on and NEVER told anyone what they knew about the sicko. Absolutely disgusting. And it tells all the other schools that this is not a big deal if this happens at your University.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^
Paterno didn't just turn a blind eye - he facilitated what Sandusky did. Paterno's supporters ignore this.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:32 PM ^
But for Paterno, some of the abuse that took place never would have occurred. I hope he rots in hell.
We are PED State.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
Whatever. fuck penn state. their legendary coach enabled a child rapist. The entire world, including those fans, know and understand this. If they want to create some delusional alternate reality around the situation..then so be it. All i know is any time you drop a Sandusky line to a Penn Stater..there face turns green. That magic will never go away. No matter how many wins or scholarships are restored
January 16th, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^
Yea I really don't think the Penn State fans understand that Paterno let it happen. He ended up being a geriatric diety and everyone still held him on a pedestal.
Yes, there are a few Penn Staters who get it...not fair to lump everyone in with the JoeBots...but overall instead of the university understanding that it should rightfully take it's punishment, it fought like nothing happened and THEY were the real victims.
This is maddening.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:30 PM ^
I talked to a couple of fans, and they kept talking about how Joe got a raw deal from the whole thing. And it doesn't seem to be an aberration to me.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:29 PM ^
but for how long will this get thrown in their face? I don't disagree that the school should be paying a steeper price for what went on, the program should definitely not get those wins back, but at some point the kids and even professors/administrators there will have no connection to the problems of the past. How long do they continue to be punished in the court of public opinion over Sandusky?
January 16th, 2015 at 1:35 PM ^
How long?
Maybe not for centuries, but there are three pending trials of indicted PSU officials. I'd at least like to wait and hear what the prosecutors have to say before I say "all is forgiven".
January 16th, 2015 at 1:42 PM ^
you would agree that those involved and bearing responsibility for what happenned are being held responsible for their actions, but you think that even those not being prosecuted should be held in some way responsible. I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Even if those responsible are held responsible you will not forgive those not responsible?
January 16th, 2015 at 1:56 PM ^
Your point is that the school should not have been punished for the bad acts of others no longer assoicated with the program?
January 16th, 2015 at 1:36 PM ^
They only needed to follow through with it. No one is asking to add anything on to it.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:40 PM ^
I don't disagree. I'm just curious at what point do we ease up and let them recover? I actually wouldn't have argued had they gotten the death penalty, but since they didn't I wanted to see consistency and reasonable punishment. I'm as furious about these events as the next person, but when to we say, "Okay, you're out of the dog house now."
January 16th, 2015 at 1:54 PM ^
vacated wins, 4 year bowl ban, fines and scholarships taken away.
We "ease up" when the punishment is complete. I'm confused with what you are saying. Why are you asking to "ease up" when they are taking away the original NCAA punishment?
January 16th, 2015 at 1:59 PM ^
but that's the NCAA's (original) punishment. When that would have been played out, you're okay with the court of public opinion easing up as well, yes? That was the original point to my first post above...when should the public allow them the benefit of the doubt again.
Again, not arguing the point of the NCAA lifting sactions and returning their wins...bad move all around on those. I disagree 110% with those decisions.
Edit: Not asking to 'ease up' yet...just asking, when does it make sense to do so?
January 16th, 2015 at 2:36 PM ^
I think you already have your answer. In the sports world, looks like the powers that be are already easing up on PSU. In the true world of popular opinion, I think it will be much longer.
I personally see that as a sad indicment of the priorities of the sports world than a pettiness of the broader population.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:29 PM ^
If they ease up anymore, Penn State will be given Urban Meyer as their coach.
And I thought that Ohio State got off easy.
NCAA lesson learned: Don't cooperate, maintain outrage throughout the "investigation". Treat them like the joke they are. They won't do anything.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:58 PM ^
How FBS schools and conferences view their best friend the NCAA:
SEC: "The NCA....who? Don't you mean ESPN?"
ACC: "Don't look over here NCAA, we have it covered".
Big Twelve: "The NCAA will never touch Texas or Oklahoma, y'all others can do whatcha want".
PAC12: "Dude, no one knows we even exist and we just sent a team to the championship game."
B1G: "We believe in ethics, gamesmanship, and fairness at all of our schools, unless it ends with State University".
All other FBS schools: "You do know we make up half of the total NCAA FBS schools, right? Why do you hate us?"
January 16th, 2015 at 4:31 PM ^
Until that delusional pedophile-enabling community shows some remorse for what happened -- I will NEVER ease up.
And people can neg bang me, called me old, shout get off my grass at me, I don't fucking care. My disgust for State Penn will fester until the day I die. Why? Because those kids live with this every day! Their lives are fucked. All for wins and $$$.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:27 PM ^
Part of being a human fucking being is you stand up for those who cannot protect themselves!
I'm asking this hypothetically, not at you GW2008, why is that so hard for people to understand?
January 16th, 2015 at 4:45 PM ^
the school agreed to it. It was a consent order, IIRC.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:39 PM ^
Since they'll probably put Paterno's statue back up next, I'd imagine it will go on for a while, and deservedly so.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:42 PM ^
Look at the current coach who was hired despite allegations he covered up a rape and didn't they hire someone in the Athletic Department from Florida State who was overseeing the botched Winston case? They have learned nothing and now there is no reason they should.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:12 PM ^
I don't think I'm alone in believing that the lack of contrition shown by many (not all) members of the fanbase and people involved makes this whole punishment reversal tough to swallow. The prevailing opinion that having some wins in a game vacated is equal to or worse than enabling child rape is grating to people outside of the Happy Valley echo machine.
I'm not suggesting that the vacated wins had really anything to do with the actual crimes, but un-penalizing PSU has made many troglodyte fans crawl out of their swamps to declare that JoePa is this misunderstood saint and why can't people just give all this Sandusky stuff a rest already?
January 16th, 2015 at 8:33 PM ^
Taking away wins from them has no bearing on the biology department, the english department, or the other academic aspects of the university, this is meant to punish the athletic department and the cult of joepa who propagated these horrific atrocities. Removing the wins in no way hurts the current players either.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
January 16th, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
This just makes it that much more obvious. Don't talk to me about any kind of morals or ethics. Disgusting.
