Freshmen Hype
Can we please stop with the Freshmen hype?? I like recruiting, I love projecting forward, but the "he's going to start next year" has got to stop. I just saw on the Drake-Dileo thread Drake was going to contribute next year. Really?? Like J. Stokes was going to and V. Smith and W. Campbell. Charles Woodson blew as a Freshmen. Yes that Charles Woodson. He was picked on like Cissoko and Trent. The greatest db in Mich history blew as a Freshmen. There are 70-80 snaps per side per game. Everyone can't play. We were the most talent depleted Michigan team in 40 years and the Frosh's to make an impact in the last 2 years have been.
Tate/Denard- No one on roster..duh??
Koger-Butler went nuts.
Odoms-No one on roster Duh??
Martin-Freak
Roh-Certainly awesome but upperclassmen horribly disappointing
So now those 40-45guys we brought in have had at leaast a year in the system and a year of training plus the upperclassmen. Chances of Freshmen making any impact from here on out is going to be rare. Maybe you see a Frosh see some time in the secondary next year, but that's about it. The depth is starting to fill out. Redshirts at all-time high next year.*
*Totally a guess, so please Freep don't investigate and splash me on the front page. "Mich Fan's Conspire to Keep Players Eligible"
October 27th, 2009 at 2:12 PM ^
Really?
Woodson was selected as the Big Ten Freshman of the Year in 1995. He was also named to the All-Big Ten First Team by conference coaches, and Second Team All-Big Ten by the media. He led the team with five interceptions and eight takeaways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Woodson
October 27th, 2009 at 2:16 PM ^
I was about to say the same thing. I agree with most of the OP points, but you shouldn't try to make them by making up stories like "Woodson blew" to prove your point. Ruins your cred in my e-pinion. Just sayin'
October 27th, 2009 at 3:52 PM ^
He also held an All-American WR (Terry Glenn) in check in the OSU game.
He was a little more human than he would later be, though. Against MSU, he had what would have been the game-winning interception slip through his hands on MSU's final drive. He made sure not to blow any more opportunities at an INT thereafter.
October 27th, 2009 at 9:08 PM ^
Woodson did blow his freshmen year compared to his amazingly awesome Senior year. (insert rolled eyes)
October 27th, 2009 at 9:09 PM ^
I mean Junior year (still rolls eyes)
October 27th, 2009 at 2:13 PM ^
You blow sir.
Woodson played college football at the University of Michigan. He became the starter after the second game of his freshman season and played in 34 straight games. In addition to playing cornerback, he returned punts and occasionally played as a wide receiver. Woodson was selected as the Big Ten Freshman of the Year in 1995. He was also named to the All-Big Ten First Team by conference coaches, and Second Team All-Big Ten by the media. He led the team with five interceptions and eight takeaways.
BOOM WIKIPEDIA'D.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:17 PM ^
He scores
October 27th, 2009 at 4:28 PM ^
I didnt no woodson played at Michigan. you lie.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:15 PM ^
Seriously, Woodson blew as a freshmen? I am pretty sure he was Big Ten Freshmen of the Year and First Team All Big Ten voted by the coaches. Nice research!
October 27th, 2009 at 2:16 PM ^
Damn you both beat me to it!
October 27th, 2009 at 2:18 PM ^
What an insanely stupid thing to say.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:23 PM ^
No offense, but the last several threads you've started have been pretty useless. Perhaps you should post less.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:53 PM ^
Go thru the list on your left and give me all these great threads I can reply to.
I got some pretty useful info from Sharik on my last thread.
Please post a "useful" thread and stop being a hater, I screwed up and didn't do proper research this isn't my senior thesis.
Maybe I spoke out of my ass on Woodson. I was wrong. I apologize. I'm at work and was taking in antedoctal evidence and my memory. A couple points, he was abused and targeted in certain games. If you start for Michigan as a Freshmen in 1995 you probably are going to be selected for some awards. That doesn't impress me that much.
Point is still valid. People need to stop thinking Freshmen are going to come in and save this team.
To the person that posted Henne and Hart nice work, touche.
October 27th, 2009 at 3:19 PM ^
"Go thru the list on your left and give me all these great threads I can reply to."
No one is forcing you to reply on threads. You can just not post and get something done at work...
October 27th, 2009 at 3:25 PM ^
Point is still valid? I don't think that freshman are going to save the team. I don't think the team will need saving. But to paint all incoming freshman as basically useless is just as much missing the point. Hart, Henne, Woodson, Leon Hall, Anthony Thomas, Marlin Jackson, Manningham (he broke out his sophomore year, but he did have some big plays as a frosh) were all pretty big their first fall on campus.
We're lacking depth just about everywhere on defense, our receivers aren't exactly lighting it up, and we're replacing two senior RBs next year. I think there's ample opportunity for one of these recruits to come in and make a splash. And one player can make a huge difference in the overall play of the team (See Molk, David). If all those guys could come in behind years of Carr developing depth ahead of them, I see no reason to write a single recruit off under these early years of Rodriguez. So, my whole issue is with this:
"Chances of Freshmen making any impact from here on out is going to be rare."
In fact, I think it might be more likely to see impact freshman under Rodriguez right now. I think we still only have 70-some scholarship players and he's shown a willingness to play whoever he thinks will get the job done, even if it's a walk-on. I'd think those are actually ideal conditions to see impact freshman step up. But maybe I'm speaking out my ass, I didn't really do any research either.
October 27th, 2009 at 4:22 PM ^
I think you need to take Barwis' role into account here. It could be argued that players on the roster having spent several years under his strength and conditioning program may give them more of an advantage over incoming freshman than existed during Llyod's tenure.
October 27th, 2009 at 6:25 PM ^
I don't post many threads, because there are plenty of a) good posters or b) bad posters who post just about everything under the sun.
You're railing against freshman hype when there's probably at least one freshman who makes a big impact every year. I don't see people predicting that any freshmen are going to win the Heisman; most people just predict that certain kids will have an impact.
Somebody made a pretty solid list somewhere in this thread that included Marlin Jackson, Leon Hall, Charles Woodson, and Donovan Warren. That's four guys at ONE POSITION in the last decade and a half. Then there are various others like Hart, Henne, Manningham, Martin, Roh, etc.
So let's assume that only one freshman makes a big impact each year. Part of the fun is trying to guess/predict which one it will be. We're fans. That's what we do.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:25 PM ^
It's a shame, really. I agree with OP's sentiment, but the whole "Charles Woodson blew" think obliterates all of his credibility.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:25 PM ^
More to the point, I can think of lots of freshman off the top of my head that have been major impact players due to lack of depth. And our depth is not getting fixed that fast. We're springing leaks on defense as fast as we can plug them. While I think the discussion of EVERY recruit as an immediate game changer may be slightly overboard, I don't think it's THAT far from the realm of possibility that a Cullen Christian immediately comes in and provides a huge impact like Woodson or Leon Hall.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:25 PM ^
You lost me at "Charles Woodson blew". Really, I dont ever remember him being close to what you just said, I am pretty sure in 4th grade he was a stud too. Big Ten Freshman of the year blew eh?
You should mix in some research before shooting out a statement like that.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:34 PM ^
"He became the starter after the second game of his freshman season and played in 34 straight games. In addition to playing cornerback, he returned punts and occasionally played as a wide receiver. Woodson was selected as the Big Ten Freshman of the Year in 1995. He was also named to the All-Big Ten First Team by conference coaches, and Second Team All-Big Ten by the media. He led the team with five interceptions and eight takeaways."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Woodson
Unless Wikipedia is incorrect abou this (unlikely, but possible), Sir Charles didn't blow, but was the complete opposite.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:32 PM ^
Chad Henne.
Also, Mario Manningham.
Also, Mike Hart.
October 27th, 2009 at 2:35 PM ^
"The greatest db in Mich history blew as a Freshmen."
Personally, I would have emphasized his greatness a bit further by saying he was the best defenseman in college football history.
But other than that, great post.
No, not really, you dumbass...
October 27th, 2009 at 3:12 PM ^
"Chances of Freshmen making any impact from here on out is going to be rare. Maybe you see a Frosh see some time in the secondary next year, but that's about it. The depth is starting to fill out. Redshirts at all-time high next year."
While the contention most true freshman don't make big splashes is correct in the grand scheme of things, Michigan is living a different reality right now, and RR has said as much. Depth isn't going to be here next year either. Coach Rod's tone has been something along the lines of "Unfortunately we're in position where some young guys have to play early ... you'd like most of your starters to be upper classmen but it's going to take a few recruiting classes to get there ..." Paraphrasing obviously.
I for one can definitely see someone like Dileo becoming a punt returner from Day One. Will his skills translate to this level? Who knows. He may never see the field. But there are certain positions on both sides of the ball that will be up for grabs next year with a bunch of young guys competing for them, true freshmen included.
October 27th, 2009 at 3:23 PM ^
Woodson blew as a freshmen?? Right. No need to list the reasons you are SO wrong as other posters have already done so for me. What an asinine thing to say. Bite your tongue sir, BITE YOUR TONGUE!!
BTW your point is not valid. True Freshmen come in every year at every college and make an impact immediately.
October 27th, 2009 at 4:03 PM ^
edit: I is blind and dumb... is me..
October 27th, 2009 at 5:20 PM ^
You love to toy with my emotions. I read your title and thought "oh man, more garbage unduly hyping various freshmen based on little qualitative or quantitative data."
I soon realized that you opposed precisely that. Superb! Then, with the foundation laid for me to agree with your subsequent sentiments, you made two fatal mistakes in as many words ["Woodson blew."]: (1) ineloquently tarnished the good name of a collective idol of many on this board; (2) did so while making a grievous error in factual analysis.
Some posters commit (1) quite frequently (See: TKOB), others commit (2) from time to time. Rarely does someone wander into the strip of minefield subject to both. Kudos.
October 27th, 2009 at 10:03 PM ^
Maybe he meant he blew because he didn't win the heisman his first year. In that case your standards are way too high.
October 28th, 2009 at 12:27 AM ^
I see your point about freshmen hype... there are a select few... Woodson being the only one that I specifically remember being great... Look Henne is a great QB but he was extremely lucky to have Braylon on that team because he would be going thru what Tate is now... No go to receiver... hart was awesome but no competition when he was frosh... Jackson wasn't going to beat him or pierre rembert... come on lol
October 28th, 2009 at 7:32 AM ^
I'm not trying to say that UM has any receivers like Braylon, but there is plenty of talent to throw the ball to. Either Tate is missing the open receivers, the o-line isn't giving him enough time, or both. Or those plays aren't being called. I can't remember the last time UM tried to go downfield with a pass besides to Hemingway against WMU. I really thought with the way Tate throws the ball, the deep ball would be a more significant part of this offense. I sure hope it does. Hemingway and Stonum are being wasted in this offense right now.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:53 AM ^
First of all, Hemingway isn't that fast.
Secondly, Tate has a shoulder injury that could very well be affecting his ability to throw deep.
Third, he's not that great at throwing from the pocket, whether it's because he's short and can't see or because our offensive line isn't good enough.
Fourth, when Rodriguez rolls out a quarterback, that makes it a little more difficult to throw downfield, because it practically eliminates half the field. If you have a guy running a "go" pattern on the left sideline, but you roll Forcier to the right, there's practically no way he can hit the guy on the left sideline because it would be like an 80-yard throw by that point. Forcier can still throw to the right sideline or down the middle, but being unable to throw from the pocket is a hindrance.