NBA Decline
So tonight I watched my first NBA game on TV in about 5 years. It's incredible how far this league has fallen. There is very little effort given, the teams rarely move the ball well, and the skill level is down significantly from years ago. Where are the skilled big men? Why all the complaining to the refs? Unreal.
It's telling that there is no thread on the NBA while there's a thread on Atlectico soccer, whatever that is.
What does the NBA need to do to become relevant again? Can it be reveresed or will it continue on the post-Jordan silde?
The median college basketball Offensive Rating is 105.2.
The median NBA Offensive Rating is 103.3
Wanna try again?
"post-jordan slide" what does that even mean. The extent to which jordan is idolized is crazy.
Everyone knows the best NBA years were the late 80s, not the late 90s.
The Jordan myth is so over-blown. The competitive parity is vastly better in the NBA today than it was in the 90's. This notion that the Bulls were this unbeatable juggernaut because they were the best collection of basketball talent ever assembled is complete and utter nonsense.
wins 60% of the championships in a decade. During the 90s, the bulls were champions six of the seven seasons that Jordan was actually playing with them.
Jordan took a two year "break" in 94 and 95 and was "retired" by 99.
The bulls probably would have won in 90 if they had gotten past Detroit. Regardless, of the four years (90, 94, 95, and 99) that the Bulls didn't win it all Jordan wasn't on the team for three of them.
All that being said, no team is unbeatable. The Jordan mythos, however, is pretty deserved. I, personally, would put money on the Bulls against any team from any time period.
The guy was good enough that he could and would clown people during playoff games (yeah, Jordan isn't a great guy character wise).
I'll get back to you when we perfect cloning and can make these retro match ups happen. I'm pretty sure we'll still be bitching about or exulting in Michigan sports in 2077.
(Okay, I spent waaaay too much time writing all that. Back to work).
Edit: oh and I see way more "Jordan carried a team of invalids" claims than I do "the Bulls were a collection of the best players ever" claims. Jordan played on some really good teams.
Also the fans seem way better in college than professional sports. The noise is a lot more in college football stadiums and college basketball arenas. Being a national champion means more when it is out of hundreds of teams than just 30. Teams like the Miami Heat just buy their championships.
Miami, sure. People there have other priorities. But cities like OKC, Portland, and San Antonio have awesome fans. Even cities with other stuff going on like Boston and Indy have damn good fans. Beyond that, it's just like college. Fans will show up to watch a winner. You can't possible argue that Indiana or Purdue football has an awesome atmosphere right now.
and teams can purposefully tank to get the # 1 pick in both the NFL/NBA. You have to stay good in college or your recruiting will take a big hit.
Do tell me again how this generation is useless and there's no hope for the human race.
You're just old. Start a thread on how kids don't show respect any more, and how technology is ruining real interaction or how you used to lug 50 pounds of ice up 5 or 6 flights of stairs every day.
Did you just step out of a time machine from the year 2000? Because that's the only way your post even remotely makes sense.
Can it be reveresed or will it continue on the post-Jordan silde?
Well golly-gee, I'm just sittin' here flim-flam flabbergasted as to how in tarnation the Minneapolis Lakers will do without that young Mikan whippersnapper. Why I remember when he was just a pup, battling it out in the National Basketball League with the Chicago American Gears before movin' on to the Lakers after the great PBLA collapse of '48. Why did the BBA and the National Basketball League have to go on and merge, making that there NBA? It just ain't right, this whole merging skiddly-doo business. I fear change.
how flabbergasted you are. To be sitting at an NFL game but having one's panties in a wad over the new-fangled NBA and George Mikan and such, it must have been extremely traumatic.
Then again, it is only a Jacksonville Jags game...
That's an amazing GIF. I have felt like this watching the Lions a million times.
is that there are some sports and leagues that are easier to like than others. you don't have the equivalent of 'maize rage' or the 'cameron crazies' at a run-of-the-mill pistons v. bucks game. instead you have piped in music trying to get people to make some 'noise' and 1/2 of the stadium is empty. we can all appreciate the skill and competence of the pros, but that is not a game that is going to garner much excitement, especially with anyone outside of their respective geographic area.
When I was a student, Crisler was usually more than half empty unless we were playing a Big Ten rival. Now we're good and it's always pretty full, but the same would be true of the Pistons, even with their terrible stadium location.
When I was the student when Amaker was the coach plus the beginning of Beilein's early years at Michigan, you'd be lucky to see a 3/4 crowd unless it's against MSU, Duke, etc which it's a sellout. No one gives a shit about Michigan basketball until they became a NCAA tourney regular.
I remember in the late 80's and early 90's you could walk up to the ticket window at Yost and buy seats near center ice for $4 for pretty much any game aside from Michigan State, and the State game usually sold out because all the Sparty fans would travel down from EL and buy out the place.
Having you team be good is the best insurance against you stadium not being full on a given home game.
Watch the Heat when they need to play defense. They are pretty damn good. Spurs and Bulls are better, but the Heat and Pacers can play D that is just as good as our Pistons.
More so the limits on player spending. The Wings 02 and 08 cup teams were better than the 97 or 98 teams. But there weren't significantly more teams in 2013 than 2008.
Also the Chicago Blackhawks say hi.
The issue isn't even about going out and buying players its about keeping the ones you draft and develop. After the 2010 cup Chicago had to cut half the team loose. It wasn't because there was an expansion draft, it was because they all wanted more money and Chicago couldn't afford to pay them. They made the right decisions with who to keep (Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Toews, Seabrook and Keith) and who to let go (Anti Neimi, Dustin Byfuglien Brian Campbell, etc).
Agree on CEO greed though.
So you think 16/23 teams making the playoffs in 1985 and only 2 teams having a chance was a good thing? Sounds pretty boring to me unless you were a Celtics or Lakers fan.
Of all the professional sports, NBA is the most predictable in terms of who will win. Lebron is obviously an amazing athlete and a once a generation talent, but the NBA is unwatchable for me because of the lack of suspense.
I'll give you Duncan and maybe Gasol.
Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard are just physical freaks. Nowitzki plays a "small man" game.
How many skilled big men are there playing old school "big man", back to the basket, basketball?
Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph, David West, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol, Al Horford, Carlos Boozer, Kevin Love, Nene Hilario, Chris Bosh, Marc Gasol, Marcin Gortat, Brook Lopez, DeMarcus Cousins, Blake Griffin, Greg Monroe, Amare Stoudamire, ...There are actually a lot of guys with killer post up games in the NBA.
The reason that the game has gone away from plodding 7 footers who just stood under the basket and got rebounds is because of rules changes that favor a more open game, and defensive rules changes that favor guard play while hurting traditional low post bigs. There are more elite point guards in the NBA than at any other point in history, and that's probably not an accident.
That is simply untrue. All of those guys I've mentioned have good to great post up games. The fact that you didn't know that tells me you probably don't watch many NBA games.
You are lionizing the past far too much.
Hakeem had maybe the greatest post up game in history. Holding him up as being indicative of the level of post play in the late 80s to early 90s is totally ridiculous.
There were guys like Hakeem, David Robinson, and Patrick Ewing, who could score down low. There were a lot of running bigs/pick and roll who were more Blake Griffin or LaMarcus Aldridge types, like Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and Shawn Kemp.
Then there were guys who just played defense and got rebounds like Alonzo Mourning or Charles Oakley.
The quality of post play was better, yes, but it wasn't orders of magnitude better. Players today are generally far more skilled than they were in the past, and efficiency metrics back that up.
That's all aside from the fact that people don't even really take the time to analyze why teams have moved away from having a ball stopping low post big. Maybe that's just not the best way to play basketball. If you have an Olajuwon or a David Robinson, then sure, but how many of those guys have their been in the entire history of the NBA? A handful?
You also have to construct your entire team around the way that they play in a way you don't around a dominant guard or forward, and big guys tend to have the shortest careers life-spans and be the most injury prone.
Just look at the 90s. Olajuwon, Shaq, David Robinson, and Ewing were the most dominant big guys.
Olajuwon won two championships, but a whole lot of people will argue that's only because MJ retired for a year and half.
David Robinson didn't win anything, and started to fade as a player. It wasn't until Tim Duncan came along in the late 90s that the Spurs actually won a championship.
Ewing didn't win anyting.
Shaq didn't start winning championships until the 2000s, so I'd count his dominance as more apart of the 00s decade. The same with Duncan.
Then when you get into the 2000s, you can add Kevin Garnett and Pau Gasol as hall of fame 7 footers who played down low.
People just lionize the past far too much when it comes to the NBA.
I'll take the bigs of the last decade, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Gasol over the bigs from the 90s, Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, young Shaq. I mean Duncan is the best player on the list. Shaq had a better career than anyone not named Duncan, then it's Olajuwon. Robinson and Garnett is pretty close but I'd say KG has the edge, and then Pau over Ewing to round it out.
Just my personal opinion, but when you actually take the time to break it down your golden age thinking becomes obvious.