Draft Day 2 open thread
Love the pick, wanted Joyner as well who just came off the board.
The CB's are set. They do need Houston to bounce back and for Slay to progress.
They do need a safety, but the guy they picked up from Baltimore is decent. I think they can get by with what they have unti next year.
This Van Noy kid should be an upgrade from Ashlee Palmer, who while not terrible should not be starting.
That's why he was announced as a DB and not a CB.
They immediately talked about how he played every DB position at FSU and he can do the same in the NFL.
OLB Kyle Van Noy, BYU
Kid is a BEAST!
I'm seeing a lot of value from this second round already. Hageman looks to be a solid contributor, and I'm like Von Noy at LB. Lions have lots of holes, but I think they're identifying solid players at various positions. Also, Rob Parker hated the Ebron pick, which makes me like it even more in retrospect.
The Lions had three 4's so losing one does not hurt. They also got a 5th back.
I will say that I was initially a bit bemused by the Ebron pick at #10, even though I see the value in making a defense worry about basically any permutation of your passing game in the NFL. At least in my mind, it made the quality of the 2nd and 3rd round picks for the Lions matter that much more, meaning they had to be quality picks that could potentially start. So far, so good - I think Van Noy fits that bill.
I wouldn't have traded anything...they truly needed their 2nd, 3rd and all three 4th rounders.
I have no idea how you can say that "truly needed" all those picks. Do you watch the games? The Lions have talent.
I did watch...did you see them in the playoffs?
No.
Quit acting like we're talking about the 49ers or something. They were 7-9!!! lol, that's not a player away from the Super Bowl.
You love being Martin Mayhew, but come on.
It's not like they were a wild card team or they're like the Patriots and they're consistently contending.
Having talent is 1 thing, having depth, playmakers, and a competitive franchise is another.
Players get hurt or do dumb things, you can hamstring your entire franchise because you expect everyone to play every game. THAT is why you need all of these picks so you can build depth, build your culture, etc.
Why am I even listening to you...the Patroits, Seahawks and 49ers are 3 of the top franchises right now and ALL 3 have this philosophy. They ALL stockpile picks and create competition and build depth.
The Seahawks had CBs go out to suspension, they had injuries all over the board and they won the SUPER BOWL. They had depth. Detroit needs to continue to build the team and create that depth through the draft...you need picks to do it.
Yes. They did.
I was going to respond with a simple "Prove it." Thanks for taking the time to go further.
Sorry for all the misspellings. I got too fired up.
But the fact that anyone thinks we can give away picks so easily or we don't need all of our picks is crazy. This is the LIONS we're talking about.
Again, Seattle, NE, and San Fran routinely stock pile picks and take guys in the draft. It's also a good way to save money so you're not relying on FA so much.
All of those teams had significant injuries/suspensions last year (like any other team)...all of those teams made the conference championship game.
And even half the guys he's referring to aren't proven, they're just new faces who haven't had enough time for anyone to decide if they're good or not. Which is fine. But it's not like you're talking about a young multiyear Pro Bowl player who's a lock to be at that position for years to come.
Go ahead and take guys and build depth and competition and don't rely so much on hitting on every single pick.
Detroit doesn't have ONE position on its roster where I say "whoa whoa whoa whoa....we don't need anyone at that position." They certainly need some positions more than others. But other than TE (now that they have Ebron), nothing is completely off limits.
Go ahead and use all of these picks and let guys compete. It's the NFL, get the best players and then get them on the field.
draft. History says that this is not always the case. LaAdrian Waddle is better than most of the OT's drafted in his class. Fauria is at least the equal of most of the TE's drafted in his class.
Depth only matters if your starters are any good. The Browns can stockpile too, but seeing that their starters suck what does it matter if your reserves are as good as your starters?
Obviously you want and need depth. But that comes with finding quality starters first. The Lions problem is that they have missed on too many early round guys for that depth to be built. The teams you mentioned are able to build depth because they drafted or otherwise filled their starting position so ably.
Please point that out. Don't worry, I'll wait.
All I'm saying is you can add depth and even hit on players with the more picks and quality selections you have.
If all things are equal, I'll take a drafted player over a FA every day of the week because they drafted player is younger, likely has more upside, and I pay him less. Look at all of the young talent on the 49ers, Seahawks and Patroits. Especially depth wise.
This is why I love people who want to pick up Woodson and Avant and those kind of players, but it doesn't make sense when you can draft a Jordan Matthews.
Also, the more picks you have, the more LUXURY picks you have.
Point and case the 49ers...they don't need Carlos Hyde, but Gore is getting older and they have questions marks so they can take a player like that. Why? Because they have enough picks to do it and they've build a team around young talent and depth and bring in guys like that. The Seahawks do the same thing.
But it's guys like you that would say...Carlos HYDE? We have Frank Gore and LaMarcus James and Marcus Lattimore...why do we need ANOTHER guy?
rounds. The Lions are still trying to make up for their misses(Titus Young, Broyles). The Lions have improved their drafting in the past few years, but that isn't enought to make up for the decade on terrible drafting by Millen and spotting drafting by Mayhew.
Again, depth can and is found in multiple areas. If you can do that through the draft so be it. But it isn't necessary as the Steelers, Packers, and Broncos have shown.
Is he ever going to be healthy enough to play? I liked that pick a lot more than when the Lions drafted Titus Young, but it seems to be one injury after another. And I honestly don't follow the Lions closely enough to know if he's even still on their roster and/or in their future plans.
Whoop-dee-do.
The Lions still have a 3rd, two 4ths',a 5th, and a 6th. Then there is the UDFA which landed them two significant players last year.
I have to ask how many of those stockpiled picks actually make those teams? I'm betting not all that many. 6-8 maybe? Those teams you mention are not rolling 10 draftees onto their team each year.
Considering the Lions history I am much more concerned with the Lions landing quality players than stockpiling draft picks. You can have 20 picks in a draft and still flop as a team if you make the wrong choices.When it comes to the draft good teams focus on quality, not quantity.
Depth is found not just in the draft, but from UDFA and free agency. The elite teams utilize every avenue to procure talent, not just the draft.
...I asked what pick(s) they lost...so clearly I wasn't aware, but YOU said:
I have no idea how you can say that "truly needed" all those picks. Do you watch the games? The Lions have talent.
That is b/s.
Because they did need those picks and they don't need to worry about finding the one missing piece like your posts have implied. I do watch the games. And yes, they have talent, all NFL teams have talent. The Lions were 7-9 last year and missed the playoffs.
The teams that I mentioned all made the conference championship game and they ALL stockpile picks and routinely take a number of players rather than trading up to get that one guy.
I'm not knocking this one trade today, I'm responding to your continuous posting about the Lions needs and how they're so talented all over the field. You've done it in multiple threads and you did it again in this one.
We can disagree, that's fine...but you're never going to convince me that they talented Detroit Lions don't need all the picks they can get until the get to/win a Super Bowl.
I'm not suggesting you take players just to take players, but there are plenty of needs on the team despite what you believe. There are even more issues with depth despite what you believe. It's you that keeps saying Detroit doesn't need an OL, the Lions may have had their best OL in our lifetime last year. That's 1 year. They can still improve, they can add depth to ensure they don't go backwards if they lose a FA or have someone get hurt.
They can improve at every single position on the field except TE now that they have Ebron. You keep saying they don't need a CB, they don't need OL. They were 7-9. They need just about EVERYTHING.
just to draft them.
The Lions need to take the best players possible. How they do that I don't care. Van Noy makes them a better team.I like the pick. if that costs them a pick so be it. I'd rather spend a pick on a good player who fills a need than reaching for a player just so I don't have to draft away "depth". Depth only matters when you have quality starters.
The Lions don't have that yet at Van Noy's position.Coincidentally, they also now have depth there with Palmer and Van Noy. Palmer is where he should be--in a backup role.
The Lions have added talent and depth in this draft with their first selections which makes your comments a bit ironic.
I've said quality picks and quality selections, go back and read...you don't just want to take players to take them.
But the LIONS...we're talking the Lions now. They aren't just a player away. They DO need picks and they may have talented players but they were 7-9 and they missed the playoffs. So when I say Joyner and you say they don't need CBs, or when I say I would take Lewan (over Manziel) and you say they don't need OL without realizing what I was referring to. THAT is what I'm talking to.
The Lions DO need CBs. They DO need OL. Again, they were 7-9. They need everything at this point...no unit is untouchable.
THAT is what I'm saying.
You don't just draft guys because of your record. You draft on how you got to 7-9. The OL had nothing to with that. They performed much better than expected.
Good coaches and GMs look at why their team failed and then draft and sign players accordingly. They just don't acquire players because the team sucked. They look to improve the areas where they were weak. The Lions OL was not such an area. They do need a C but that is due to Raiola's age rather than his play.
I said "I LOVE THE PICK" in the 2nd post in this entire thread.
little depth for quality. As it is they got both.
they moved up on their 2 and moved down from one of their 4ths to a 5th. i call that a wash. then they only gave up a 7th. big deal. they must see something in that LB, so giving up a 7th rounder is nothing.
I loved the pick (and said that when it was made).
thought you were ranting about losing a pick.
a be all end all, but one of the guys at Rotoworld did pre-draft roster rankings and had the Lions at #11. Said we did "less with more" than any team in the last 5 years
...just became famous.
...just not sure it's been 2nd round.
LOL @ Sankey before Hyde. Washington connection with Locker.
At least with Von Noy you don't have to worry about off the field issues, except maybe him coming to your door during dinner in a black suit.
/ducks.
3.5 Michigan players drafted in this draft...
Wouldn't the pushing point here be whether or not Gordon gets drafted? I assume Schofield and Gallon are locks
In that case I say over. I think Gordon is taken in the 7th
Their player development is a huge part of the reason their 'low star' teams have whooped our highly rated teams for the better part of the last decade.