OT: Eric Ebron Opinions
I just think with such a porus defense you need to add talent to it. Clinton-Dix or Dennard I think was the pick there....hell, even Aaron Donald. After the Lions, 16 of the 22 remaining picks were defense (Minnesota moved up to take Teddy at the end otherwise I'm guessing Seattle goes with D as well).
Clinton-Dix and Dennard felt like stretches at 10, and I'm not sold Dennard is going to be appreciably better as a corner nor Dix as a safety than what they already have.
I don't think you can read much into what players were taken later on; Ebron wouldn't have dropped much farther, and frankly the offensive talent in this draft is robust but not particularly dominant. I suspect there will be a run of WRs and RBs taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
I never really got the "he's a stretch at that pick" complaint. You need your first round picks to be hits, and generally expect them to play quickly, so you take the guy who will help you the most. So what if a draft wonk had the guy going off the board 10 picks later? Unless that pick belongs to you or you can trade down for it, that's worthless to you. It would be stupid to take a guy that won't offer short term help for your team just because Mel Kiper ranks him higher. I guess there's a possible exception for when a guy is so good it will be valuable to trade him or whatever good veteran you have at the position of non-need.
I think concerns that the Lions could have traded down and either still gotten Ebron or taken one of the defensive backs. And that's valid, but it takes two to make a trade and the whole problem with the Lions spot at 10 was that there was no one available that anyone was desparate to grab at that spot.
Ebron is an instant upgrade at a spot (receiving TE) that will get extra emphasis in the pass-happy Lions offense. The DB draft is a lot deeper, so the Lions have plenty of time to upgrade there too.
Where would Dennard play? Dennard has average height and speed. An elite prospect he is not.
I would have preferred Dix over Ebron myself, but I don't hate the pick.
But that's the problem. We should have attempted to trade down. We didn't. Mayhew said there were no good offers but it's a lie. 20 seconds after they were on the clock they turned their pick in. They didn't even attempt to shop around after the previous pick was made. It was typical Lions drafting. It happens every year without fail. They have a list of top prospects and just go with the top guy on it when it gets to them. They rarely try to maneuver or play with strategy. Hell, even Ebron could have been had several spots lower. At the very least take him a few picks lower and get an extra 3rd rounder while you're at it.
I disagree. They don't have to wait until the clock starts ticking for their pick to listen to trade offers. They had been discussing trades for weeks now, testing the waters. Even during the draft before their pick they could discuss trades. If they'd waited another few minutes would something better had come up? Maybe, but far from guaranteed. Nothing was viable. I'm not sure how you can say they didn't try to trade down. Offers were discussed, they didn't like any of them so by the time it was their turn to pick, they made their selection.
the Lions did try to trade and maybe they didn't but according to Ebron the Lions decided to draft him almost 3 weeks ago.
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2014/04/report_unc_te_eric_ebron_think.html
I think it was a safe, solid pick. The lions were in a tough position because Gilbert and Barr were off the board. Drafting Ha ha or Dennard would be a reach so getting the best player available that will give stafford a great weapon in the redzone, where the Lions struggled.
They're a Marquise Lee 2nd round pick away from having amassed all of the weapons necessary for Matt Stafford to continue to not be Drew Brees.
Dude, the Lions have a LONG history of uber shitty QBs. Everytime someone bitches about Stafford I want to slap them across the face for not remembering just how shitty things were before him. Is he a top ten QB in the league? Probably not. But he's better than a lot of the starters in the league, easily one of the best QBs in franchise history, better than any QB we've had here in decades, I don't see a lot of better QB options for the Lions, and I sure as shit don't to go back to the carosel of turd slingers we had before.
So, one internet slap across the face for you sir.
The Lions went 0-16 one year, so we'd have to be complete idiots to be even mildly upset with going 7-9 last year. I mean, they did better than a lot of NFL teams last year.
They've hitched their wagon to a mediocre QB for an elite level salary, so excuse me for not enjoying the four + Sundays out of the year where he appears to have dislocated the thumb on his throwing hand before the game.
My issue with Stafford was his response to a question about whether or not he needs a QB guru/mentor to work with:
“Probably not,” Stafford said. “It’s not something that I feel would be my style or beneficial to me.” Link
Really? Elite performers in business and sports always look outside of their own four walls to gain an edge- unless they think they've arrived. Dude doesn't think he needs to work; that his natural talent is enough. He's wrong
Donald was the only defensive player who would have been worth it at 10 and we already have suh and fairely so kind of a waste for a rotational guy. ebron is supposedly going to be our poor mans jimmy graham IE used more in the slot and as the pass catching tight end to pettigrews blocking tight end.
Dennard was not a reach at 10. The Lions could have taken him and no well repsected analyst would have questioned it. Just because he slipped to 24 means nothing. Manziel slipped to 22 and no one would have thought less of Jacksonville for taking him at 3.
I have no problem with the Ebron pick, but don't try to make it sound like it was their only option.
Where does Ebron go if the Lions don't take him?
Care to cite any sources, or are we just going off of what you hear.
CBS had Dennard the top corner in the draft.
ESPN had him graded higher than Gilbert.
If Detroit felt that taking a corner at 10 was too high, they should have traded back. Taking a position you don't need because the player is highly rated over a position that is a gaping hole on your team is what gets you fired more times than not. Why don't you ask Matt Millen.
You go and make the statement, now you want me to do the research. Fine.
First off there wasn't 6-7 teams after Det that needed a CB. A couple needed a S.
Secondly, CB was deep. The difference between Dennard, Gilbert, Fuller, Verrett wasn't all the great.
In another post you cited the ravens as having passed. But they took the ONLY first round ILB in the draft. Wasn't alot of depth there. So do you take a great ILB and get a CB later that is still decent, or do you take one of many CBs and then settle for a mediocre at best ILB.
So lets go in order after DET
TEN Didnt need CB
NYG Didnt need CB
STL Didnt Need CB
CHI Took a CB. Guess they had Fuller graded higher.
PIT Could have gone CB, but that would be more of a future need, not immediate. They have CBs, just getting old. Needed LB help
DAL Didn't need a CB
BAL Took the only First Round ILB
Jets Needed a S
MIA Needed OL Badly
NO Needed a WR
GB Needed a S
CLE Already took Gilbert
KC Didnt need a CB, made an awful pick.
Cinci, Took Dennard
So I count 3 teams that needed a CB. PIT, BAL, CHI. CHI took one. PIT and BAL took other positions of need.
Dennard and Ebron with the same rating, 92.
Indeed, they had Ryan Shazier (who went 15) at 92, as well as Kyle Fuller (CB who went 14). So I disagree with you completely that there were no defensive players worth taking. I believe any of those 3 guys is FAR more of an upgrade over the current Lion in their position than Ebron is over Pettigrew/Fauria.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/rankings?year=2014
IMO, this was not a good pick at all.
Rob
I think Shazier will be very impactful in the NFL. Impossible right now to say who is or will be a better pick, these things take 2-3 years to figure out. There is probably some corner who gets drafted in the 3rd round who comes out better than Fuller, Dennard, or Gilbert. "Value" is just that - if a guy comes in and starts for you for 10 years and makes 4 Pro Bowls does it matter if you pick him 8th or 23rd? You'd be happy to take him anywhere.
I would restate by saying that it's tough to make a conclusion about 'value' based on ratings that are 5 or 6 picks apart.
Rob
Both also needed LB's. They went with them. SF need a WR. They took a DB instead. That is how the draft works. Most teams need more than one thing.
Those teams took a player at a position of need.
If you know anything about the NFL draft, you'd understand why that statement is stupid.
How many of those dozen teams needed a CB? How many of those teams that needed a CB also needed something else and went that direction instead.
Once again, if Jacksonville had taken Manziel, it wouldn't have been a reach. He fell all the way to 22. You are wrong.
Why don't you name those teams? Also why don't you list their other needs and who they drafted.
Are you suggesting that the after a CB the next biggest need for the Lions was a pass catching TE?
CB wasn't the Lions biggest need.
I would disagree, unless you are going to suggest safety was 1st and CB was 2nd. Either way, it definitely wasn't passing catching TE.
here'e the thing guys most analysts who follow the lions have stated the lions are loving the young corners on there roster already they have drafted like 12 in the last 4 drafts so they have plenty and we all know cb takes the longest to develop so from what i gather by that comment is that the lions want to develop what they have, they still may draft a cb but it wont be to be a starter, and there is no need at S unless you are talking about depth quin and ihedigbo will be fine back there, i still think they take a safety though but only for depth purposes so can we all stop getting in a tustle about our secondary and trust our organization, lets see how the new coaching staff develops sopme of these young guys before we get all upset about certain picks
Safety, Receiver, and Defensive End are bigger needs than CB.
So by your logic, all the teams who passed on Tom Brady were smarter than the Patriots.
Ok then the 20 teams that passed on Randy Moss were smarter than the Vikings.
If that's the case, why is Dennard such an almighty reach?
I don't think anyone at these organizations give a crap what a bunch of gurus have to say about who they drafted; they know what they want and they draft for those needs. But Dennard would have felt like a reach to the Lions I'm guessing, and that's all that matters.
As for Manziel dropping to 22nd, his ascension felt as much a product of media hype than anything he showed on the field and workouts. He has lots of skills, but I never watched him in college and thought "that guy is going to be a top-5 pick in the NFL draft." That said, I don't think any QB in this class was particularly good, and Bortles at #3 kinda shocked me.
They don't care what gurus have to say. But we are talking amongst us. When it comes to me and you discussing who is and isn't a reach, I am inclined to believe that ESPN analysts know more than you and I.
The Lions didn't say he was a reach. Voldemort did. Mel Kiper doesn't agree with him. Sorry if I am taking Kiper's word over Voldemorts. I supposeyou could stop taking your car into a mechanic and just get automotive advice from MGOBLOG too.
Mind you, I didn't say Ebron was a bad pick. I simply said Dennard would not have been a reach at 10.
"The Browns reached wildly for Justin Gilbert"
Maybe in they eyes of the talking heads but not here in Berea. He's the guy they had targeted (moved up one pick to get him) and bracketing him with Joe Haden gives the Browns a pretty damn good defensive backfield.