AZ Cardinals to trade Rosen and draft Murray?

Submitted by WoodleyIsBeast on January 10th, 2019 at 11:38 AM

Adam Schaffer is saying that it is not out of the question that Kingsbury and the Cardinals trade Rosen and draft Murray first overall. 

Kingsbury has previously stated that he would draft Murray first overall, but he may have just been positively reinforcing him. 

Drafting Murray would make watching the Cardinals a whole lot more enticing(thinking Baker in Cleveland), so who knows?

Comments

umchicago

January 10th, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^

it's much tougher to make the big leagues in baseball than football once drafted.  that said, his mlb draft slot for baseball projects a $4.8 million signing bonus.  mayfield got $33 million last year at #1.  the #10 pick got $17 million.

i don't know.  i think i take the cash...but i think the cardinals are stupid to risk this.  but they obviously have been prone to stupid decisions.

Perkis-Size Me

January 10th, 2019 at 12:46 PM ^

Fair points, but as far as the earnings go, that's only assuming you get called up to the big leagues.

Otherwise, you're spending your career being bussed around the country to no-name towns, playing in glorified high school stadiums where no one cares who is playing, if fans even bother to show up or even know a game is happening. You're spending most nights during the season sleeping in motels and memorizing the $2 for $20 menu at Applebee's because that's the only non fast-food option open in these one-horse towns (such was the case with one of my buddies who played minor league ball but never made it above AA). Assuming Murray doesn't get called up, once his first contract runs out, he's working for pennies. Relatively speaking, but minor league baseball contracts have a cap of maybe a couple hundred thousand a year. Possibly even less. Most of those guys are getting paid $1200-$1500/month. 

I'd probably choose baseball too, because you have to assume he has a reasonable chance of being called up with being a first round pick. And far less injury risk. But if he doesn't get called up, that's a career of playing nowhere even remotely important or relevant. Football will always be king in this country, so I'm sure that plays a significant factor as well. 

DrMantisToboggan

January 10th, 2019 at 11:45 AM ^

Trade Rosen to the whoever in the top ten draft picks wants him for that top ten pick, then take Murray and the best available DL. That's a stellar 1st round, if Murray works out.

It's still insane to me that Murray would choose to play football over baseball. I say that as someone who believes no other sport can hold a candle to football...but the baseball money and injury/long term health rates gives you a different quality of life that football probably won't.

In other draft speculation, CBS' latest mock has Gary 2nd and Bush 5th. Two franchises that I could hardly care less about, but two top five picks is damn good recruiting material.

QuentonCassidy

January 10th, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^

While the long term-injury concern is a real one, the financial one isn't as stark as people make it out to be. Of course if you only compare those that play in the majors for a few years, baseball money wins hands down. But making it to the majors is by no means a guarantee, even for a first round draft pick.

The Ringer does a pretty good job of breaking down this argument if you're interested: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/12/19/18147692/kyler-murray-heisman-nfl-draft-oakland-athletics

Plus, being young with money in an NFL city sounds like a lot more fun than being young with money in Beloit, Wisconsin ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

bronxblue

January 10th, 2019 at 11:48 AM ^

That would be a crazy decision.  Rosen is a pretty good QB and Murray isn't some given to be a stud.  There are other parts of Arizona that need fixing.

Perkis-Size Me

January 10th, 2019 at 11:58 AM ^

He still has a lot of potential, he can get the “first year pass,” and much of his struggles can be blamed on Arizona’s OL, which was downright atrocious this season. Yeah he can be a bit douchey, but if he can play, GMs won’t care. 

No one will trade a first round pick for him, but someone will be willing to part with maybe a second or third round pick. 

Best situation for Rosen would be a place like New England. They don’t have a viable backup at all in case Brady goes down. Take a few years sitting behind the GOAT, learn from him, put yourself in a very stable, successful organization, and take the reins in a few years when Father Time inevitably wins out. 

Perkis-Size Me

January 10th, 2019 at 12:54 PM ^

He wouldn't need to share reps with Rosen. Rosen could come in with the understanding that he is Brady's backup and will remain that way until Brady decides to retire. But it's not like Brady is in his early-mid 30's. He's 42. He has maybe another 2-3 years in him. NE would be foolish, absolutely foolish, to keep balking on grooming a successor just because Brady doesn't like sharing reps. And Rosen has a ton of potential. If its fully unlocked, the transition from Brady to Rosen could be near-seamless. Or as close to seamless as it could possibly get.

I'd like to think Brady could understand that the Pats putting off finding his successor will, long-term, hurt their organization after he retires. Which make no mistake, that day is coming. Brady will put it off as long as he possibly can, but Father Time will beat him eventually. 

If I'm Kraft, I'd rather start grooming my successor now. Especially a guy like Rosen, who has all the tools someone needs to succeed at the highest level in the NFL. 

Perkis-Size Me

January 10th, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^

Meh, if I was already stupid enough to hire Kingsbury, why not take a step further and let him go get “his guy?” 

If I’m the Cardinals and I’ve just decided to hire this guy, at this point you might as well see it through to the bitter end. Murray would be a far better fit for what Kingsbury wants to do vs. what Rosen’s skill set provides. Would actually benefit both parties, as Rosen’s potential could be wasted behind Arizona’s atrocious OL, and Murray at least the ability to evade pressure. A change of scenery may be best for Rosen, as plenty of teams are looking for QBs. 

Whatever Kingsbury decides to do with his QB, he’d better find an OL that can protect him. Otherwise it’s pretty much all for naught. 

ScruffyTheJanitor

January 10th, 2019 at 12:02 PM ^

Murray is 21 years old. He's probably 3-4 years away from the majors-- if he makes it at all. If they take him in the top-half of the draft, he'll get at LEAST a 12 million dollar signing bonus-- three times what he's having to give back to the A's. He won't hit free agency in the MLB until he's 27-28-- meaning he would have ONE shot at a legit contract. In the NFL, if he's any good, he'll be in the middle of his second contract by then.

Unless he's a top-50 MLB player, chances are the NFL will pay him a decent bump above what he'll get as an NFL QB. And considering that he'll triple his money upfront makes this gamble make a ton of sense for him.

 

Mongo

January 10th, 2019 at 12:40 PM ^

My OU friends tell me Murray is 100% going football.  Either this year if high enough in the draft or there is some smoke he comes back to OU for an additional year.  Why?  He won the Heisman trophy and the football endorsement money (signings, speeches, golf outings, shoe deal, etc) from that award alone is huge ... averages about $1 million per player over a football career plus it opens doors to a ton of other football related things. 

Also, he only hit .300 in college ball.  If he can't hit a major league curve ball he will never rise out of the minors.  That A's contract is a total flier that he can develop into an on-base maven and strong-armed shortstop.  

CaliforniaNobody

January 10th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^

All he did was retweet a quote from before Kliff was hired saying he'd take Kyler first overall, he never suggests there's any other reasons they might do that, and Rosen's name isn't used once.

Watching From Afar

January 10th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^

"I'd take Murray #1 overall" is not an indication that they would trade a QB that is already on the roster or bench a current QB in favor of Murray.

Had he said "I'd take Murray #1 overall regardless of who is on the roster" then I'd put stock in it.

lhglrkwg

January 10th, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^

Seems nuts for both Murray and the Cardinals.

For the Cardinals, you're going to trade your 2nd year 1st round QB for a 5'9" QB? A QB that is small and running is a big part of his game? I am not seeing how he is going to translate well to the NFL

And for Murray- I guess if he loves football, then he loves football, but it sure seems like he has far better odds of success in the MLB along with the increased pay and decreased likelihood of serious injury

charblue.

January 10th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^

Murray is the quickest and perhaps the fastest college quarterback besides Denard that I've seen play. But those attributes will never offset the size issue that he faces playing the pro game. I think he can obviously play the game, but will he want to deal with the banging and bruising sure to come from the NFL grind.

In their two final games, the Panthers started backups for Cam Newton, and neither of the guys who played behind him could get through one game without getting knocked out with shoulder injuries or worse. They couldn't survive four quarters and in the finale the Panthers faced the New Orleans Saints second-stringers on defense most of the game.

How long did Denard last playing running back for the Jaguars? I think if Murray wants a pro career with lasting potential, he plays baseball.

If the Cardinals are dumb enough to pick him first, and they are as well as being snakebit as a franchise in making qb choices, then good luck to both. But I believe he's better off playing pro baseball than football. Or maybe doing what Tebow is doing, trying to make it first in the NFL and then in pro baseball. The Mets are actually putting Tebow on their Triple A team this year with the idea of him competing for a big league roster spot. He can't hit a curve ball. So, it's mostly a pr move.

Surrender Cobra

January 10th, 2019 at 1:09 PM ^

*with the caveat itll never happen* matt stafford's contract for the rights to josh rosen and a 3rd? Lions take the dead cap hit, get a pick and a QB for the rebuild. Buys Quinn and Patricia time. Gives Stafford a fresh start and David Johnson. Gives Kingsbury a guy that can immediate play as he grooms his choice. Gives my wife another reason to leave me and my shrink another reason to give me medication for slipping away from reality. NEG ME AND MY MADDEN TRADE AWAY NERDS

Malum In Se

January 10th, 2019 at 1:51 PM ^

The Cards have a lot of options, especially if Murray decides to pursue football.

There was an article in a SF news paper today, referenced in a Ringer article, that the A's think Murray is going to the NFL.  Murray is supposed to report to Spring Training on 2/15.  The Combine is a couple weeks later.  QB work outs are on 3/2.  If he skips Spring Training and makes an appearance at the Combine, then we have an idea of what the kid is going to do.  

Using Spotrac.com for the contract data, trading Rosen would be a $8,158,776 dead money cap hit to trade him (it's all prorated signing bonus). If you can designate a trade a June 1st transaction like a cut/release, then it is a very reasonable $4M-ish dead money cap hit in 2019 and 2020. If the Cards really do love Murray, moving Rosen isn't an issue. The team getting Rosen is getting an ultra cheap QB ($570,000 Salary+$709,898 roster bonus for 2019 cap hit of less than $1.5M) with upside.  Accordingly, the Cards should be able to take Murray and move Rosen if they prefer Murray.

The Cardinals could also trade down.  Imagine the Giants (6th pick) with Murray, Barkley and OBJ.  The Cardinals should be able to get the OL help they desperately need at #6 plus have additional picks to rebuild a depleted roster.

sleeper

January 10th, 2019 at 2:55 PM ^

Intersting stat re MLB draftees: Only 66% of MLB first round picks ever make MLB at all. Just 46% of first round picks last three or more years in MLB. 

AVPBCI

January 10th, 2019 at 3:20 PM ^

Rosen, 2 and a 4 for Giants 1st

 

Boom done

 

Giants get the QB, a 2 and a 4., Cards already have the 1st pick, now have the 6th than !

I don't know if the Giants would do that, guess who do they like more, Haskins or Rosen ? Unless Haskins goes to Jacksonville at 5.

M-B Devil Dog

January 11th, 2019 at 1:21 PM ^

First off, anyone that thinks Kyler is above 5'8" you are wrong. I have stood next to him multiple times when at Texas A&M (brother is alum and former player). I am 5'10" and I was looking down at his eyes. both of us in sneakers. I have stood next to him in dress shoes and cleats and I am taller. I have heard from a few people that would know that he is scratching 5"8". 

Second, Kingsbury would not be impressing anyone if he burned a first pick on Murray. there is no chance he can play both baseball and football at the QB position at the same time so that's out. He's shifty and hell of quick but this is not college. He went against a LOT of single high saftey's and coverages that allowed him to run the ball. We are talking about the NFL, they figure out "gimmicky" or "uniqueness" quick. Why the hell do you think nobody runs an option offense in the pro's.  

Third, He would take a SERIOUS beating in the pro's at QB. think about JJ Watt, Donald, Clowney, Kiki putting a full speed hit on him. you think he is going to be able to take that week in week out? If he doesn't have an ELITE O-line in front of him he can be shifty and quick all he wants but he won't succeed. Also his ability to stand in the pocket and run thru progressions is going to be limited, he will have balls batted down at an exceptionally high rate. Again, this is NOT college. 

There is a reason why Scott Boras, his agent, whenever has been asked only says. Kyler signed a baseball contract. Kyler will play baseball. Scott has been around the business a long time, I think he knows Kylers best chance at making a lot of money is swinging a bat and stealing bases. Not trying to dodge getting flattened by JJ Watt. 

The kid is an exceptional athlete but I am not a fan. his takes arrogance to a new level. I have talked to a lot of guys who played with him and spent a lot of time around him who say he literally thinks he's the greatest athlete that's ever lived and his shit doesn't stink. 

I think playing in the Big 12 where there is literally no defense has blinded people into thinking this kid can be an NFL QB. College defenses are not anywhere close to professional level defenses, elite DB's shutting down WR's and linebackers that can and will contain you. Defensive coordinators that can and will have plans on limiting you on your best assets. I just do not see how people think he is going to go into the league and produce anywhere NEAR the level of offensive production he had this year.