OSU deal with the devil?
After watching the frustrating Peach Bowl game and now watching Haskins & OSU control the game against Washington I can't help but wonder how have things gone so well for OSU the past 10 years and so bad for UM? Is there some fundamental flaw at UM that continues to bring in coach after coach that seems to come up short and OSU the opposite? Both Tressel and Meyer dominated UM and Rich Rod, Hoke, and Harbaugh struggled against OSU. Prior to RR coming to UM who would have thought he wouldn't be successful? Prior to Tressel coming to OSU who would have thought he'd be so good? Prior to JH coming to UM who would have thought his offenses would struggle so much? And, who would have thought Meyer's QB would be one showing uncanny accuracy and ability to find the open receiver whereas our QB whisperer's protege, a former 5-star talent, struggled in our bowl to hit open receivers. I sit and watch Dwayne Haskins just drop dimes everywhere and I go back and look at the recruiting rankings only to find our own Brandon Peters and Shea Patterson ranked ahead of him in the same class. I find this incredibly frustrating.
I keep thinking this thing is cyclical and eventually things have to turn around, but every time there seems to be an opportunity to do so (Tatgate, JH hire, ZS saga, the trajectories of the two teams prior to our meeting this season, etc.) it always seem to work out in OSU's favor. I want to believe that Meyer retiring will be good, but it's hard to believe things will change when they never seem to despite multiple coaching changes on both sides. I know part this is just frustration talking on a message board, but it's really uncanny how bad of luck we've had in relation to OSU in the post-Carr era.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:45 PM ^
Get over it. Is what it is. Man up. Get better.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:41 PM ^
Go away troll!
January 1st, 2019 at 6:45 PM ^
Superior athletes, super coaching, superior recruiting. There is no deal.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
There has to be more to it than that. If there wasn't Gary would be better than Bosa, Patterson would be better than Haskins, DPJ would be better than Campbell, etc. because they were all higher ranked recruits and supposedly superior athletes, yet OSU's version all put up better numbers.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:57 PM ^
Better coaching, better scheme, better players... Shea should have never been a 5 star ... Bosa and Gary were both top 5 recruits Bosa has better players around him and they call holding penalties for OSU, DPJ needs a better QB and a offense that throws the ball more than 15 times a game
January 1st, 2019 at 7:10 PM ^
A lot of this. Michigan's offense doesn't give stats to anyone but the running back. And they use 5 of them. So one RB doesn't have the carries to get the eyepopping numbers.
Add in the fact that Michigan's OL has been a disaster for a decade and you're not going to have an awesome offense.
As for OSU and the bowl game, add in the fact that Solomon left, Gary was hurt, Bush was hurt, Winovich was hurt... With the best part of the front 7 on defense not being healthy, you're not going to dominate a team with good offensive lines.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:32 PM ^
Add in the fact that Michigan's OL has been a disaster for a decade and you're not going to have an awesome offense.
But that's sort of my point. They've had a ton of high level o-lineman recruits in Kalis, Bosch, Kugler, Dawson, Magnusson, Bredeson, LTT, JBB, Onwenu, Ruiz, Mayfield, etc. There is no way in hell we should have trash o-lines with all that 4-star talent.
January 1st, 2019 at 11:14 PM ^
Hmmmmm.
Assuming the current Offensive Line regime stays in place (and stays for some years to add stability) then I think you will probably be quite happy with the line (and soon).
My tOSU friends complained endlessly about their line the last two years and particularly about their coach Studwara (I think).
January 2nd, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
I think the false starts are annoying, but the lines under Studrawa have been fine. Haskins hardly gets touched. OSU fans deserve to light the torches for the defensive coaches, but I don't think the offensive coaches should feel worried.
January 1st, 2019 at 8:52 PM ^
I loved Higdon because he ran so hard every play. But he's not close to an elite back. I really hope Charbonnet ends up being a stud because it elevates the offense to another level to have a great RB. We've got the wideouts and QB. Tough for a freshman to make an impact but seems like other teams have freshman RBs as feature back all the time. If he breaks out next year, this offense could be fun to watch (assuming it's not Bo ball).
January 1st, 2019 at 9:10 PM ^
We don't need an elite back with what we have coming back at receiver. Mike Weber isn't an elite back. They don't need one. They just need one ass a change of pace every once and while. Stick to 60-40 passing for the love of God.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:36 PM ^
Mike Weber is better than we give him credit for—both Mw and Dobbins are better than anyone on our roster in 2018 and prior—and higher ranked.
We do need an elite RB because no team is truly threatened by UM’s runners since Mike Hart. It is laughable that one thinks a good passing game does not need a good running game. The difference between elite offenses like Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, OSU and those like Texas Tech or Penn State this year or even a team like WVU is being one dimensional.
Bama has two future NFL starters, at minimum, in Harris and Harris. Their third string 3-star would start over Higdon. Clemson’s Etienne is a fast Dude.
Charbonnet needs—needs—to be a stud if we are talking about an elite offense. The other backs need to become serviceable—which they will develop into, likely.
What is really crazy, if you look at 247 roster data—how few RBs Michigan currently has carried the last few years in comparison to other programs. For a program that emphasizes the run, we had Higdon, Evans, O’Maury, and Turner on scholarship—and if we include Walker’s transfer, we’d only have had that few clear RBs. Five! I wish we’d stop recruiting slot guys so much and focus more on RB—which is what they seemed to be doing before Gray switched to Tennessee.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:58 PM ^
That would fall under the superior coaching umbrella. Hopefully, JH sorts that out over the off-season.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:01 PM ^
That’s where the coaching part comes in.
January 1st, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^
I’m so happy you popped up down here in the comments.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:06 PM ^
Yep. College football makes a lot more sense when people cut out the bullshit narratives that relate to emotion and "mental blocks"
January 1st, 2019 at 6:46 PM ^
Urban Meyer fell into their lap, we hired RR and Hoke
its not that complicated
January 1st, 2019 at 6:51 PM ^
Prior to Meyer coming to OSU and JH to UM who would have thought Meyer would be so much better than JH? Didn't JH also fall into our lap in much the same way? But, it didn't work out as well for us.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:55 PM ^
Meyer dream job was to coach ND. He said he would have loved to coach Michigan as well. I guess our coaching job just came up at the wrong time. I think Miles would have done a better job than RR and Hoke but we would probably be in the 9 to 10 win seasons with Miles but for a longer time period.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:51 PM ^
Wrong time? I don't want a man who enabled domestic violence to be UMs coach.
January 1st, 2019 at 8:48 PM ^
While I fully agree, the pre-Florida Urban, OTOH, would have had the appearance of being an outstanding hire, especially once he had established himself as a big-time head coach while at Utah in '04 and '05. But Lloyd wasn't ready to go yet and Urban choose to take advantage of the full cupboard at Florida over a talent-starved ND, two schools who were in the market at the time for a new coach.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:13 AM ^
Such delusion and pure bull. Just gotta laugh. Michigan was never o the radar for Meyer. Let me refresh you - He's from Ashtabula, OH and grew up a huge Buckeye fan. He was mentored by Earl Bruce and repeatedly said the only job he would consider after Fla was OSU. He has said he would like to coach ND in the past as well due to his former job there.
He bleeds Scarlet and Gray. He was never going to be at Mich. Sorry
January 2nd, 2019 at 2:49 AM ^
Are going to say this 11 months from now when he takes over another blueblood program? Or are you delusional enough to think he stays on the sidelines in the AD at OSU for the next 20 years?
January 2nd, 2019 at 6:25 AM ^
That's odd. His contract at Florida had a clause allowing him to leave at anytime for ND, OSU or Michigan. Nice try though
January 2nd, 2019 at 8:55 AM ^
That Bo Schembechler guy grew up in Barberton, OH and was an asst. coach under Woody for several years at OSU.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:01 AM ^
RR was good, he just needed a mediocre D coordinator. Hoke.. he was just in over his head. Harbaugh has turned the program back in the right direction. He just needs to spread it out and not run on 1st and 2nd downs.
January 2nd, 2019 at 7:54 AM ^
I agree with that, but unfortunately I'm not confident in JH fixing our offensive problems as it seems to be his philosophical concept that's the problem in both the way they call plays, the way there is no single coordinator, and the style of play he prefers (pro style). This is one of the primary things that's holding us back and seemingly not changing or improving and in fact getting worse. It was better in year one that in 2018.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:46 PM ^
OSU’s AD hires good coaches, who don’t hesitate to fire poor performers. It’s just that simple. How long would Pep last on Meyer’s staff? He would have been fired mid season last year, I bet.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:48 PM ^
In fairness, Zach Smith had to beat a woman multiple times before he was replaced with a competent receivers coach.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:58 PM ^
Zack was a terrible position coach, but clearly loyal to Urban and unencumbered by morality. A scumbag like urban would value that.
January 1st, 2019 at 8:19 PM ^
They finally got rid of him after 10 years or so. It's too bad he was a scum bag or he might still be there.
January 2nd, 2019 at 1:30 AM ^
His lifeline was being Earl Bruce’s grandson.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
Urban Meyer kept Zach Smith on staff for years despite him not even being a good WR coach. Plus, Meyer employed Tim Beck for two full years.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:56 PM ^
JPC has just become a full on hater of Harbaugh. Don’t expect any rationality out of him anymore.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:24 PM ^
Hater or whiner? Both?
January 1st, 2019 at 10:42 PM ^
That is no lie. He’s got to be MAIZEN’S first cousin. Remember JPC, #justplaincrazy
January 1st, 2019 at 7:09 PM ^
Zs knows where the bodies are buried.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:47 PM ^
Zach was apparently an outstanding recruiter.
January 1st, 2019 at 10:20 PM ^
Beck is the OC at Texas now.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:08 PM ^
When Meyer was forced to fire Zach Smith due to off the field issues, it was the first and only time in his entire career that he has fired an assistant coach. He has stated in interviews that he is proud that he either helps assistants grow, or else finds opportunities that are more suited to their talents at other schools.
Ohio State has gotten some luck with their HC hires. It's not 100% luck; as the saying goes, "luck is the residue of design." There gook a calculated risk with Jim Tressel, and it worked out: some of that was good judgment, but some of that was luck. In the case of Urban Meyer, the luck was that Meyer has, from the beginning of his career, dreamed of coaching at Ohio State or Notre Dame.
Ohio State has one obvious and perpetual advantage over Michigan, in that Ohio produces a great deal of elite talent coming out of high school. That won't win a National Championship, but what it does is put a floor to how far they can ever fall with a bad coach or a bad recruiting class. Unless some NCAA penalty has a dramatic effect, they will always be able to hand the reigns over to a new coach with a roster of Big10 championship quality players. It's never going to be a rebuilding job.
January 1st, 2019 at 10:28 PM ^
How did ohio come to be such a superior state to Michigan in high school football talent?
January 1st, 2019 at 11:04 PM ^
That just backs up the fact threat Meyer is obsessed with what people think of him.
January 2nd, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
This is actually inaccurate. Urban was loyal to a fault.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:47 PM ^
I think you have good questions, borne from frustration, with relatively easy answers. I also think this thread won't go well.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:47 PM ^
Their only "deals with the devil" are head coaching contracts. They don't miss. Even the ones who couldn't beat us regularly won the rest of their games at a great clip.
January 1st, 2019 at 6:52 PM ^
So why do we keep missing? It happened three consecutive times under two different ADs. Doesn't that seem odd?
January 1st, 2019 at 6:59 PM ^
If you're calling Harbaugh a miss, I'm not going to continue this conversation - it won't be productive.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^
Not a miss in the sense that he's a bad coach....a miss in the sense that he isn't faring as well against OSU, developing the QBs, and having as good of offenses as we expected. Overall I still think he's a good coach and recruiter, but he has shown a number of weaknesses the past few years that I wouldn't have expected.
January 1st, 2019 at 7:12 PM ^
He isn't fairing well against OSU, who has one of the best college coaches of all time.
If people thought harbaugh, who hadn't won a conference title in college was going to waltz in and start pummeling a coach who rarely loses as it is you have another thing coming.
Although 2 out of the 4 games we should have won.. if okorn wasnt the QB last year we prob take that one, and 2016 with the refs and the close ending we were inches from the playoffs potentially.