Those who stay...

Submitted by Michifornia on December 30th, 2018 at 6:34 PM

Will get a degree and a fantastic education at the BEST public university in the country.  Period.  Until Coach Harbaugh swallows his pride and makes some changes, there's no way a championship (B1G or otherwise) is likely.

Jim Harbaugh is a great recruiter.  Dude can talk a huge game.  When he came back to coach at Michigan, it was one of the greatest moments for me as a diehard fan for 40+ years.  But obviously, something needs to change.  I don't think it's a bad thing attracting kids to a stellar academic institution.  Even promising that you'll be joining an almost guaranteed top 20 program every year.

But I've been buying into the hype every week and every year.  There's so much freakin talk on social media about how great this team is.  How dedicated everyone is.  I am not one to bash any of these student athletes.  They are working hard and doing their best.  It's time to stop trying to convince everyone where this program is.  Enough with all the Twitter hype and all the rhetoric.  It's time to keep it real and shut up until this program can actually win something.  10 wins, nothing to sneeze at.  But 10 wins with all the talk and hype.  Not so great.  Maybe we need to take a more blue collar approach.

Michigan IS a great school.  Heck, we even have a pretty darn good basketball program (doing more with less).  I wear my maize and blue with great pride.  Proud to have earned a degree there.  But enough TALK about how great the football team is.  Harbaugh can bring in some pretty great talent.  But until it starts showing up on the national stage, let's not call it what it isn't.  

Those who stay won't be champions unless Harbaugh changes some things.

Happy New Year!  Be safe and GO BLUE!!

MGoBoard
Football

Denard In Space

December 30th, 2018 at 7:17 PM ^

although i'd phrase it differently, i generally agree with this.  although i'm definitely not the most grizzled M fan here, i'm at least old enough to remember when we won three fucking games.  i wake up in a cold sweat screaming "Threet" on some nights, just like anyone who bore witness to those troubles.

it's important to recognize the need for change: yes, the defense severely faltered against top-ten teams for the last two games of the year. yes, we need to pass the ball to our great WR's more.  but there's no need to burn the house down when it's pretty much back to how it used to be before Lloyd retired (Jim's win% is pretty much the same as Bo's). the Warinner hire tells me that Harbaugh learns from his mistakes. 

so if we're not a behemoth, but we're a dangerous team that competes for the big ten and playoff every year, that's exactly what i'd hope for. it's clear we're not going to be ohio state or alabama unless we value winning more than the totality of growth that happens in an institution with a *modicum* of integrity (not to say M doesn't have its own atrocities to account for). i'm not talking about paying players--of course we should do that-- i'm talking about ignoring domestic violence, offering no sense of mentorship or teaching, that kind of thing.  Saban seems to do a little better than Urbz at managing all that, but i think of that scene from the amazon documentary in which the academic counselor is on Rashan's ass about his future as an entrepreneur.  i bet that shit doesn't happen for najee or zach harrison.  

anyway, just glad to have two degrees from michigan that made me a better person. we'll win it all in football eventually, and i think it should be Harbaugh that takes us there. it's sad to lose but i'd rather do it with someone like Jim.  

Pep on the other hand... 



 

Joined: 05/24/2018

MGoPoints: 13432

Whirled Peas

December 30th, 2018 at 8:34 PM ^

I wish takes like BlueMK1690 were more prevalent on this site. I get it.  It's the internet.  Trolls are going to troll.  You'd think the tone would be dramatically different than the 2009 posts, but it sounds like the same sky-is-falling talk from a 3-9 season.  People are pointing to Beilein as the model of great coaching  but you only have to go back 12 months to find a proliferation of posts talking about how the game has passed Beilein by, how he isn't maximizing the talent, and how it's time for UM to get a "real" coach.  There is plenty of room for criticism and countless things that need to be improved with the football team, but it's tiresome to hear that if a coach fails to win a championship in 4 years he is a failure at 10-3.  The ohio game SUCKED, but a week earlier these same hyperbolic posters were talking about how we were ready to unseat Bama.  We're not great yet clearly, but we're not going to play musical chairs with our coaches and expect to be anything but less than mediocre.  The most qualified guy is at the helm and he's figuring it out.  2 teams rule the land.  Everyone else suffered at least one blowout loss or got left out.  That's reality.

Joined: 11/25/2010

MGoPoints: 136

BlueMarrow

December 30th, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^

JH will have a second year starter in his program for the first time, next year. He missed on his initial OL coach. I believe the rest will be wonderful history for Michigan fans.

To those doubting, I ask you, who would you hire to replace him right now?

Those who stay will be champions. That goes for fans too.

If you can't stomach the ride, stay in the kiddie pool.

Joined: 01/23/2011

MGoPoints: 1049

True Blue 9

December 30th, 2018 at 7:01 PM ^

So, I don't disagree with you. I guess just my one question would be, how much longer are you willing to wait? I've been saying something similar to your point above about who would we replace Harbaugh with. But I gotta admit, while I still can't say that I have someone better, it does feel like what we've seen thus far is his ceiling here, sadly. I really hope I'm wrong but my faith that we'll make it to the top of the mountain in the next 3-4 years is dwindling by the hour. 

Joined: 11/25/2012

MGoPoints: 7963

MIGHTYMOJO91

December 30th, 2018 at 8:08 PM ^

Right! Those pesky fact just keep getting in the way with the church of harbaugh loyalist. Have faith though, our hope is secured in next year, or the next year, or the next year, or the next year....stop me if you have heard this before.

Joined: 11/28/2015

MGoPoints: 4532

Optimism Attache

December 30th, 2018 at 8:30 PM ^

I generally agree, but there has to some point where we stop assuming it will get better and decide whether what we have is good enough. How many coaches fairly consistently put up 10 win seasons and got fired? Mark Richt, I guess. Pelini was almost there. Mack Brown and Bobby Bowden had been on long declines. Yeah, we have high standards and the coaching salaries to match, but it would be hugely controversial if we got rid of JH after another 9 or 10 win season. 

That said, I do think there is reason to believe next year will be better. Second year starting QB, yes, but also a heck of a lot of talent coming back in the receiving corps, the Warinner effect, etc. Meyer being gone could help (yeah I said it). On the other hand, there are some clearly some holes to fill on D. 

 

 

Joined: 09/13/2011

MGoPoints: 23981

DHughes5218

December 30th, 2018 at 8:34 PM ^

I agree that missing on the OL coach was a big problem, especially for Harbaugh’s offense, but I think Speight started a second season before getting hurt. I think bringing in Ruddock his first year hurt the 2016 team. Speight would’ve started all of his red shirt freshman season and then in 2016 things may have went differently at Iowa and in Columbus. Instead of being a tested second year starter, he struggled on the road in tougher games.

 I’m not giving up on Harbaugh, but I do have some doubts now. I believe staff changes need to be made. If Harbaugh did leave, I think Matt Campbell would be a solid hire.

Joined: 10/04/2014

MGoPoints: 7162

blueday

December 30th, 2018 at 7:00 PM ^

Smashing Ben Mason into the line twice sums up this "NFL" offense. Maybe the Staff needs to watch some football on Sunday.

Joined: 11/04/2014

MGoPoints: 6493

TVG_2.0

December 30th, 2018 at 7:17 PM ^

Harbaughs got the fans and media in the palm of his hands. He doesn’t have to produce anything of substance and it’s sad. Only way he leaves is if he chooses. Vince McMahon should make him CEO of the XFL, dude controls the narrative of the entire national media every year despite a garbage product. 

Joined: 07/28/2018

MGoPoints: 1107

Eyzwidopn

December 30th, 2018 at 7:35 PM ^

Is this supposed to be a "hot take"? 

This program was damn near in ruins when Coach Harbaugh took over considering the deflated fan base, player under-development and decline in the W-L record that looked more like the norm than an aberration.  The cupboard may not have been bare but if Coach Harbaugh were forced to comment, I believe he would admit that when he took over, things were worse than he imagined in a number of areas.  But he's methodically gone about eliminating the talent deficit to compete on a top-10 level; wiped-out the "resting on our laurels" entitled attitude; brought back a toughness/blue collar mentality to the program; made personnel and schematic changes to adjust to needs on and off of the field; and has Michigan relevant again and in the national conversation... all in 4 years.

There's no denying there's been mistakes and setbacks.  As fans we have a right to question coaching decisions, game strategy, player usage, etc., no matter how logical or illogical our personal takes may be, because of the time, passion and support we devote to this program.  But, we as fans also have to own the "hype" we create and buy into and not fanatically project whatever disappointments we suffer because of it on to the coaches/program.  Coach Harbaugh didn't guarantee a NC or a B10 title this year, just that this team would work hard to improve and get better.  Well, 10-3 is better than 8-5. 

Coach Harbaugh is now firmly rooted with his players and his imprint on the culture of this program, so it's time for the next step to a B10 championship and I don't think anyone is more aware of that fact than he is.  Based on Coach Harbaugh's track record of adapting and changing (albeit stubbornly at times), there's no reason to believe the necessary adjustments won't continue to be made to take that next step and ensure that those who stay will be champions.

Joined: 09/16/2013

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jg2112

December 30th, 2018 at 7:57 PM ^

Over the past 50 years (Bo was hired in 1969), Michigan has played 609 football games. The team's record is 444-157-8. That's a 73% winning percentage.

Jim Harbaugh's record at Michigan is 38-14. A 73% winning percentage.

This is what Michigan is. Get used to it.

Joined: 11/24/2008

MGoPoints: 9925

mooseman

December 30th, 2018 at 9:07 PM ^

Sounds like he does. The "glory years" of Bo consisted of beating up on 8 tomato cans (including MSU) a 50/50 game against a team or two with a pulse, a 50/50 game with OSU and a predictable bowl loss. Against that backdrop, keep in mind that a lot of programs got better due to a lot of factors (increased TV exposure and the resulting revenue probably the greatest). Wisconsin, MSU, Northwestern, and even Iowa are not your father's teams. Add Penn St. to the mix. Harbaugh's only real shortcoming against that historical backdrop is his lack of success against OSU--a team that has been a top 5 national program during his tenure. His salary creates a lot of expectations, unquestionably. It doesn't change what Michigan is. Expecting to bring in someone to predictably improve upon 10-3 just isn't realistic.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 35431

UMxWolverines

December 30th, 2018 at 9:31 PM ^

Averages work because certain coaches do better than average i.e. Bo's win percentage at 80% big 2 little 8 be damned while Rich Rod and Hoke we were below average. Literally every single other school is below us in win percentage so how is it those schools are better than 10-3 if that's your argument? How could Urban Meyer win 90% of his games if OSU's win percentage is only .727?

Joined: 03/01/2009

MGoPoints: 65309

jg2112

December 31st, 2018 at 12:04 PM ^

My point is that if you knew nothing about Michigan but used a 50 year sample size to figure out what kind of team this is historically, you'd expect the team to win about 3/4 of its games. In that sense, Harbaugh hasn't disappointed at all. Now, you make not like the games the team is losing, but that doesn't matter to precedent. History predicts Michigan will be 10-3 or 9-4 next year. Adjust accordingly.

Joined: 11/24/2008

MGoPoints: 9925

Blau

December 30th, 2018 at 7:58 PM ^

I felt the acknowledgment of getting over the hump and winning the big games late in the season was a breath of fresh air. At times I feel like Harbaugh doesn’t verbalize the obvious and sticks to his coach-speak. Pretty abysmal way to end the season and I hope he stresses that to the team during the offseason.

Joined: 01/23/2014

MGoPoints: 35213

Michifornia

December 30th, 2018 at 8:07 PM ^

Next year on offense, we will have 3 or 4 O Line back, DPG, Black, and Nico.  I still believe in Shea and D Mac.  If Charbonnet is half of what he looks to be, this offense has ALL the tools to be way better than average.  The defense will be very good and will need to play with a chip on its shoulder, not all hyped.  If we can't compete next year there's really not much else to say.  We get osu in the Big House.  We HAVE to win that game.  The rest of the season means nothing if we don't get that one.  And if freaking Pep is still calling the shots...I will ALWAYS root for this team.  But in over 40 years, I can say it's never been this frustrating for so long.  Let's go boys!!

GO BLUE!  TEAM 140!!

Joined: 10/03/2013

MGoPoints: 13812

Harbaughlin

December 30th, 2018 at 8:31 PM ^

Winning the big 10 is so hard Dantonio has done it 3 times in the last 7 years and Sandusky state even pulled it off once...

 

With Urban Gone and Dwayne Haskins in the NFL we gotta plow that "He ass my dude" QB nexy year and Ryan Day.

Joined: 04/01/2018

MGoPoints: 611

Ibow

December 30th, 2018 at 8:40 PM ^

I’m as disappointed as anyone and I guess I have to learn to not wrap such a huge amount of my identity around the M football team & their success or lack thereof. 

Yet, all in all, it was a fun year for us, our kids & grandkids. We attended a few games, didn’t miss the rest of them on TV and after Notre Dame, it was a riot to watch them seemingly get better and better each week. Especially enjoyable was beating MSU. 

The OSU and Florida games were terribly disappointing and heartbreaking because it seemed like if there was ever a year, this was it. In both those games the guys looked less than inspired and fired up. Something seemed off.

Not sure anymore what to think about Harbaugh and more so Pep & Don Brown. I’m no expert but I think we need a modern, college ball, “open it up” type offensive coordinator and Pep needs to go. Harbaugh needs to step away from play calling and manage the team and help with QB’s. Don Brown... not sure if he’s the real deal or not. 

We’ll move forward and by the time the spring game rolls around and summer arrives, we’ll be optimistic once again and we’ll be cheering once again.

I’ll miss watching guys like Winovich. What a true Michigan Man he was and is.

Go Blue... always. 

 

Joined: 04/13/2018

MGoPoints: 4746

NateVolk

December 30th, 2018 at 9:10 PM ^

This Beilien revisionism on here is harder to choke down than the Harbaugh must win next year or else whining.

This board was loaded with people who wanted to cut bait on Beilien less than 2 years ago. The team caught a head wind and now he has things humming. 

But "we knew something big was building" is what many on here are now claiming. Hogwash. There wasn't one person on here claiming any such thing this time 2 years ago

Actually Beilien and his track record is a GREAT reason to keep Harbaugh for as long as he'll agree to stay. He looked dead in the water in that year 3 or 4 timeframe. (much much worse than Jim's teams have looked in his first 4 years.)

Then he dipped again for a couple years after the loss to Kentucky in 2014. And people on here mostly wanted to run him off.

Good thing no one with access to power listens to folks on fan message boards. 

Joined: 07/19/2010

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