OT: Recreational marijuana officially legal in Michigan

Submitted by LLG on December 6th, 2018 at 9:56 AM

"Michigan on Thursday became the 10th state to have legal recreational marijuana. Washington D.C. also allows recreational use of the product.

The new law, which passed via ballot measure last month, took effect Thursday at midnight. Michiganders age 21 and older will now be allowed to carry up to 2.5 ounces of marijuana, the highest recreational carry limit in the nation.

People will also be able to keep 10 ounces in their home and grow up to 12 marijuana plants for personal use.

Smoking marijuana in public will still be illegal, including on porches or in driveways outside of a private residence . . . ."

And for those people curious about the history of Hash Bash in Ann Arbor:  

The very first Hash Bash was held on Saturday (April 1st, 1972). In response to the March 9th 1972 decision by Michigan Supreme Court declaring (unconstitutional) the law used to convict cultural activist John Sinclair for possession of two marijuana joints. This action left the State of Michigan without a law prohibiting the use of marijuana until after the weekend of April 1, 1972. Chef Ra was a fixture of the Hash Bash for 19 consecutive years before his death in late 2006.

https://www.hashbash.com/history.html

Remember Hash Bash is now on the first Saturday of April at high noon on the University of Michigan Diag.

Comments

will

December 7th, 2018 at 1:16 PM ^

"Let people do what they want on their own time."

How far does this go? Smoking a joint? Lines of coke? Hookers? Kiddie porn? Beastiality? Murder? (Because everyone murders...)

I'm not saying if/which of those should be prohibited - rather pointing out that almost everyone has a line they would draw. While we disagree with others we need to respect their opinions.

Ali G Bomaye

December 7th, 2018 at 1:58 PM ^

I'm talking about what an employer should let go, not what society should let go.

If an activity doesn't affect the employer, then the employer shouldn't be concerned about it. Someone who peacefully uses marijuana in their personal life and always shows up to work sober doesn't present a problem to the employer.

The other things you mention are all illegal. An employer should worry about them only to the extent they reflect badly on the employer, but otherwise, it's the law's job to address those behaviors.

will

December 7th, 2018 at 9:34 PM ^

I'll play devil's advocate and disagree.  Our company has strict rules because of the nature and risk of our occupation. Restraint in your personal life is a key indicator you will not onky succeed in our line of work, but also that you will be more likely to stay with our company.  With such a high learning curve and low supply of people who do what we do, it is in our best interest to have concerns about worker's lifestyles. 

And just to make a point, where I live all of the things in the list are illegal. Laws are merely a reflecting of collective moral fiber. 

 

socalwolverine1

December 7th, 2018 at 1:06 PM ^

Then your friend's company needs to get rid of the idiotic piss test, or they can continue to be understaffed. And yes, plenty of people are using weed because it absolutely has pain relief benefits. 

I've been legally consuming pot almost daily for eight years (1/4 joint of ground herb vaped in the evening) and can tell you with high confidence that it is NOT addictive. Why? Because my wife and I travel frequently for weeks at a time, and when I'm away from home, somewhere where pot is not legal or available, I don't even think about it at all. 

The bottom line is, some people are prone to addictive behaviors, and we see them abuse both alcohol and whatever drugs they can afford. Pot is not the problem, it's a solution. 

Walmart Wolverine

December 6th, 2018 at 8:18 PM ^

BTW, for your son's merit badge, maybe have him research how drug companies keep producing higher dose opioids, and the FDA keeps approving them (some of them are thousands of times stronger than fentanyl). 

Yeah.  No.  Carfentanil is the most potent opioid approved by the FDA.  It was approved in the 1980s and is only indicated as an animal tranquilizer.  About 20 grams per year are manufactured.  Sufentanil, also approved in the 1980s is the most potent opioid approved for use in humans.  It is about ten times more potent than fentanyl and is indicated as an analgesic adjunct for anesthesia in surgical procedures.  It is sometimes used for analgesia in critically injured patients who have high opioid tolerance (heroin addicts, for example)

Neither of these drugs is available at your neighborhood pharmacy

pescadero

December 7th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^

Modern perspective =  peer reviewed research that the idea of a "gateway drug" is not at all supported by science.

 

Does marijuana effect cognitive function? Almost certainly. Alcohol does, tobacco does, caffeine does, exercise does - it would be a huge surprise if it didn't effect cognitive function.

 

Is it benign? On the continuum from Benignant -> Benign -> Malignant, it's definitely closest to benign... but realistically, it's probably not too dissimilar from alcohol.

UMProud

December 7th, 2018 at 3:27 PM ^

Have you read peer reviewed research on the use of marijuana?  I have and when I'm talking about cognitive brain function it's not just during the temporary period following usage.  There is science out that points to long term effects particularly in young people.

If people want to be all for marijuana that's their business...but there seems to be alot of blanket statements about it's harmlessness that the (limited in number) studies I've read dispute.  I'm not a scientist or an expert at all but I'm concerned about young people who use this stuff and it's how it can effect their development.

jermrs

December 7th, 2018 at 11:14 PM ^

I want to preface two things

1. I'm a marijuana legalization supporter

2. I've done passive, but extensive research on marijuana over the course of 10+ years.

 

For me, you make a good point, but you're not being exhaustive with the medical ramifications AND benefits of THC. First and foremost, there have been pretty glaring studies about the link between people GENETICALLY predisposed to schizophrenia and marijuana use. The general idea that marijuana will "activate" the schizophrenia in someone who is genetically predisposed, especially and most specifically during youth. That should be noted by all users and part of marijuana culture. "Tripping out" may just be the sign that "hey, you might have bigger problems than thinking you're just high right now". 

There are plenty more associations and issues with marijuana use during puberty and in youth. That is why it, along with alcohol, is still illegal to minors. And please don't jump to "well, if it's more available more minors can get to it". That's been logically debunked for a long time IMO. Regulating a substance far distances its unintended use compared to prohibited "black market" use. Portugal is a great case study in this.

It's not addictive. Nothing about THC is chemically addictive. It CAN be habitually addictive, but so can exercise, drinking milk and reading books. It's also nearly impossible to overdose. The amount of toxic THC someone would need to ingest is nearly impossible to consume through regular smoking/edibles. I read at one point that it's quite literally 100's of joints in a window of consumption to deliver a toxic level of THC. Someone would clearly asphyxiate themselves before that. No person in recorded history has ever died from a marijuana overdose. Not one, not ever. People have died due to allergy and accidents due to being stoned but nothing due solely to THC. An additional variable must be added to prove marijuana deadly.

I do agree, we should prohibit use from anyone that has not reached full adult development completely. There are too many unknowns and enough research to show a negative impact. On the other hand, the only substantial adulthood impact I've seen that has been proven over and over again is short-term memory. Caffeine and alcohol have more long-term impacting effects than marijuana in my research.

Just like anything else that alters a person's perspective or motor skills, it should be taken with respect for the substance. Other than that, a lot of the fear outside of youth usage is a bunch of malarky. 

Blue_by_U

December 6th, 2018 at 12:23 PM ^

well...I guess I have a clue working in public health, encountering kids going through drug treatment, following their profiles, seeing what's 'hot and now' in the neighborhoods, and seeing the trail which maybe not 100% of the time, but enough to be an impact shows a trend with alcohol, pot, oxy, and other 'gateways'. The 'fucking' clue comments really solidify your stance, perspective, and message BTW. Reality is, fools will be fools, and people of each side spew misinformation. The common message I share with kids, yeah pot is a plant...so is poison ivy...don't take advice from just anyone kids. And for what it's worth, I think most people realize DARE is a weak effort to stopping drugs, even the kids know it. Education of what the possible helps and harms is a better way to deal with it, and many start to see the payoff and lies add up.

Blue_by_U

December 6th, 2018 at 7:01 PM ^

yep...and we can produce said piss off with a clean test result...sadly it's your style of brash tough guy schtick that really gives the dope nation mentality a bad name. I'm not even going so far as to say it's bad as in death in waiting...but I have used enough Narcan, I've seen enough lives screwed up, I've talked with hundreds of thousands of kids, young adults, adults caught up in it to see causation, connection, direct correlation, whatever you want to call this to say...the move to make dope legal will have some serious consequences.

I fully agree those who have been using and exclusive to dope likely wouldn't have changed no matter the end result. The amount of kids currently vaping, using laced and now CBD/THC/coke/whatever laced stuff is growing at a frightening pace. Perceptions of 'risk' are at an extreme low. You can have your opinion...errr...more like bully tactic, refuse to listen, refuse to see maybe there is a little truth to it...won't change what I've experienced. I grew up with heroin addicts around me...I know where the started, I know when they ended. good luck to your generation...I have a terrible feeling ours may outlive yours.

m_go_T

December 6th, 2018 at 1:23 PM ^

This whole gateway talk is so dumb.  Is there a correlation between heroin use and cannabis use? I am sure there is.  There is also a correlation between cannabis use and not doing heroin.  Point is I am not sure that cannabis use causes opiate addiction.   

Also, I am pretty sure if you look at the numbers, there is a much stronger correlation between being prescribed opiates by a doctor and developing an opiate addiction.  At least most people I know who developed an opiate addiction were introduced to them by their physician.  

Lastly, I am not sure why we need to prohibit a substance because it might lead a small percentage of users to abuse another substance.  If anything, continuing to prohibit marijuana makes people keep going to black market dealers (where they may be introduced to harder drugs) and takes a non-opiate pain management option of the table.  

PM

December 6th, 2018 at 1:57 PM ^

If you’re in public health I hope you understand that correlation is not the same as causation. Just because most opioid addicts got high along their path to an ever bigger high does not mean pot caused them to take pills or shoot up. Most people who get high never graduate to harder stuff. Also, if dope didn’t exist do you think we wouldn’t have any addicts? 

If anything, I would bet the % of addicts who smoked dope before trying opioids has probably gone down over time thanks to the fine marketing and sales efforts of big pharma making their products more accessible to high school and college kids. I have no data to support that last opinion, btw, just speculation.

Sorry about the run on sentences.

PopeLando

December 6th, 2018 at 3:32 PM ^

I was at the tail end of the "marijuana is a gateway drug" speeches. We were all told as kids that if you smoked weed, terrible things would happen and we'd definitely end up snorting coke.

The biggest problem is that it's self fulfilling. Turns out that weed doesn't really fuck up your life. But once you equate marijuana with opioids, then the kids who try weed and DON'T die tend to think that all the stuff we learned about the dangers of drugs was equally bullshit. So they try heroin. Turns out heroin does in fact fuck up your life.

I am a firm supporter of the "drugs are bad mmmkay" thinking. I am also a supporter of "weed should be legal".

I'mTheStig

December 6th, 2018 at 3:35 PM ^

Smoke all you want, I don't give a shit; personal choice/decision.  But the people attacking the poster here is nothing more than mob mentality.

If anything, I would bet the % of addicts who smoked dope before trying opioids has probably gone down

Nope, there's enough data here which says your absolute take on the topic isn't rooted in any kind of cogent thought.

Most people who get high never graduate to harder stuff. 

Yep.  This article from NIH (for all of those attacking this guy's work in public health) says, "these findings are consistent with the idea of marijuana as a "gateway drug." However, the majority of people who use marijuana do not go on to use other, "harder" substances. " -- which supports both your points.

Psychology Today also suggests the theory has legs and has flaws in their approach to the issue.  Numbers don't lie.  But the context in which the stats are analyzed isn't necessarily black and white.   Same goes for a Yale paper and a host of other peer reviewed sources...

...which one can research on their own; as that time spent would be more productive than attacking the poster, his career, his kid, his place of residence, (insinuating he's conservative and he's bad for that), or any other attribute about him.

 

pescadero

December 7th, 2018 at 12:53 PM ^

" If anything, I would bet the % of addicts who smoked dope before trying opioids has probably gone down over time thanks to the fine marketing and sales efforts of big pharma making their products more accessible to high school and college kids. "

 

I'm not sure about that - but we do know that the unlike the past when most opioid addicts started using opioids illegally, over the last 20 years most opioid addicts have started their addiction with prescribed pills.

Ali G Bomaye

December 6th, 2018 at 2:29 PM ^

I think you're close to being on the right track. Yes, marijuana isn't good for you, and its use is a public health issue. That said, the notion that marijuana is a gateway drug is absurd. If you're in public health, focus on reducing marijuana use on its own merits, not because you think somebody is going to become a heroin addict because they smoked a joint once. I know a ton of people who use marijuana. Many are professionals who do excellent work in challenging professions, and not one has an opiate addiction problem.

Blue_by_U

December 7th, 2018 at 5:48 PM ^

truly bless you in trying to find your way...as to major depressive orders, yep, that's a common association I see. Hear it all the time.  So very sincerely, how does it help or improve the major depressive state? Is it getting better? Or does the pot just idle the moment and sustain a calm...Looks like it's  not really helping with anger issues... Agree, disagree...I know you are not going to see any sort of logic from my perspective even if I did an about face and suddenly mirrored your every belief. The need for continual Fuck offs is getting old, and I'd only expect it from the bottom of the heart where the sludge and tar build up. I hope you find peace, maybe stop for one second one day, and consider other options that may be as helpful/perhaps even work alongside your apparent need for pot. Take care, I'm done with your ramblings. 

Blue_by_U

December 8th, 2018 at 2:14 PM ^

logic...

talk to a person about managing depression and options beyond the hazards of pot...= bad old man

telling a person to drink bleach and die...= sound advice??

 

so....I'm the one who needs to go. uhhhh OK...good luck sport. And what exactly is it with this young generation of ingesting as much cinnamon as possible, eating tide pods, drinking bleach, whatever youtube challenges you can dream up...yet the old people are the problem...LMAO...am I doing that right?

BOX House

December 8th, 2018 at 2:25 PM ^

willie.png

 

is this your whole schtick? you regularly get told to fuck off here, what part of that doesn't register with you? the problem is you. you're a narrow-minded narcissist who is incapable of seeing fallacies in his own logic. Maybe your own family issues with addiction have something to do with your issues and biases. to answer your condescending and completely unprofessional questions regarding my mental health, i am comfortable with my current medication and therapist. you, however, should seek help immediately.

your opinions about the type of person i am are false and based in your own biases and stereotypes. I am a 2010 alum and have nothing to do with that generation. 

Blue_by_U

December 7th, 2018 at 5:50 PM ^

CW...that's the irony...it's always the 'potheads' who seem to think they have all the answers and logic and somehow it requires chemicals to have 'fun'... here's a clue, there are plenty of ways to have more fun than you could ever fathom without a toke, drop, drip, puff, line, whatever it is you need to get by. Hurling insults just shows your angle is soft and myopic.

SMart WolveFan

December 6th, 2018 at 10:56 AM ^

Logically speaking, it's more like: obtaining alcohol illegally while underage, leads to obtaining pot illegally, leads to obtaining other things illegally.

Not to mention, if it's the gateway drug, there's a bunch of people clogging the gateway, might be easier for law enforcement to go after the ones who break through carrying a garbage bag full of Dr's pills.

Blue_by_U

December 6th, 2018 at 7:16 PM ^

haaa...good point SMart...though that really backfired in SE Michigan and one of the reasons Heroin is so bad, arresting the pill mill Drs. Yeah fundamentally it was illegal and had to be done, it's a bigger problem than just simply targeting the bad guys. One train of thought has always been, arrest the buyer, to get the dealer, get the dealer to turn over the distributor, use the distributor to find the importer, work the importer to find the grower, the grower leads you to the kingpin...

Where I see the struggle, with 'legal' users were going to use no matter what. With so much additional pot 'out there' odds are stacking...But eventually it won't be enough. The American way has and will eternally be bigger better faster stronger. Yep it might only affect 100 people ever...what if one in one hundred ever...belongs to you?

Maison Bleue

December 6th, 2018 at 11:12 AM ^

IMO the only reason pot can be considered a "gateway" drug is BECAUSE of its illegality.

If you're buying pot from a drug dealer illegally, that dealer may introduce you to other drugs he sells illegally, like coke and heroin and prescription pills. Now that pot is legal and you get it from dispensaries, that is no longer the case.

NowTameInThe603

December 6th, 2018 at 12:33 PM ^

Marijuana isnt evil but IT IS a gateway drug. Stop being defensive about it.

The perception that weed isnt harmful(which its not) leads to people trying it. They get to experience, for most, their first sensory and body high. Like any other drug you build up a tolerance. So why not try some psychedelics.

Im curious if there is anyone out there who jumped to mushrooms or LSD without having smoked before? I doubt it.

Maison Bleue

December 6th, 2018 at 1:07 PM ^

I tried mushrooms before I tried pot.

After I tried pot I never thought to myself, "That was cool, now I want to try heroin!" So in my experience, it was 100% not a gateway to other drugs. I am sure others have had different pot experiences and it could have led to "harder" drug use, but they also could have had addictive tendencies in general. There are probably people out there that loved the high from coffee and thought, "I need something stronger than coffee, I should try speed!" Does that mean coffee is a gateway drug?

NowTameInThe603

December 7th, 2018 at 9:52 AM ^

Lol do you know anyone who has ever done heroin? They dont go "That was cool, now I want to try heroin" after smoking pot.

Its not a stretch to say you are in the minority of people who have done shrooms before weed.

I still dont get why you are so defensive about calling marijuana what it is. Yes there is will power involved in all your choices in life but marijuana gets your feet wet with drug use.

Blue_by_U

December 7th, 2018 at 5:56 PM ^

pescadero...here's how the term is actually used.

a habit-forming drug that, while not itself addictive, may lead to the use of other addictive drugs.

"many believe that alcohol and cigarettes are gateway drugs that increase the risk of subsequent involvement with illegal drugs"

 

so, now on day two of legal weed...saying it has to be causative at this point to be a gateway is a joke. The perception is, youth experimenting with alcohol which is abundantly available in every teen survey i've conducted for the last 30 years...and use of weed then and even now (21 is still the legal age...) breaks down that barrier in decision making. Science teacher long ago gave me the best advice I've ever taken. Fear is what keeps humans alive. You lose that fear of things, the risks are far more likely to get you. Never once have I ever said, EVERYONE who uses weed eventually leads to opiates and overdose...but kids brains can't handle the THC the way adults do, and the perception of danger in teens is at an all time low. Many cite all sorts of 'facts' that have yet to be proven, and stand on a few simple ideas of it's a plant, it's legal, my parents use it and they are fine. Agree to disagree.

Benoit Balls

December 6th, 2018 at 11:18 AM ^

Ive made so many more bad decisions drunk that high I could probably write a book about it.  Alcohol is the gateway drug for most people, not pot.  And the gateway to opiods is usually either: doctors needlessly prescribing them to patients who dont need them (there are many reasons for this that we wont get into), or, in the case of many minors, parents who had some once, didnt finish them, and leave them in their medicine cabinets

What they should do for the opiod crisis is make things like Suboxone much easier to obtain.  Then people under the thumb of addiction wouldnt lie cheat and steal to get their fix. Opiate withdrawl is horrible and the stigma should be removed so people can get help instead of leaving them on an island to deal with their issues and treating them as outcasts when they cant do it on their own

Blue_by_U

December 6th, 2018 at 7:51 PM ^

to your point BB, Seattle is trying that. Rather than incarceration, they are keeping track of hard core addicts. They are offering opportunity to get clean. One of the difficult struggles is, say you are trying to get clean, YOU seek treatment (the only way it honestly works) and you are clean and clear for 6 months...suddenly we meet up again, start running the same game we always did, and that lure is always there.  A BRILLIANT physician I talked with summed it up...once an addict you are always an addict. You are either in a state of use, or clean. Staying clean is the difficult part without a change of circumstances. 

In some areas it's so bad with opioids, there is a move to put Narcan in schools and train staff to use it due to the risk of in school overdose situations. So the chicken or the egg...is suboxone/narcan/naloxone a treatment option that needs to be used or is it a safety net for some who know everything in this generation of unstoppables and unteachables?

pescadero

December 7th, 2018 at 1:00 PM ^

" So the chicken or the egg...is suboxone/narcan/naloxone a treatment option that needs to be used or is it a safety net"

 

It is both - and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

The fact that most diabetics in the USA caused their own disease, and many could get rid of the disease through diet/exercise... doesn't mean we don't treat diabetics who don't exercise and eat a bunch of crap.

Is that a "crutch" that allows them to continue their behavior, or is it just keeping them alive until they can make better decisions?

Blue_by_U

December 7th, 2018 at 6:02 PM ^

I agree Pescadero with it's both and that's OK. So long as the 'get out of death free' doesn't start to supplant the treatment and path to heal. Case in point Vape. It was originally intended to help smokers quit nicotine and smoking. It has worked on MANY people, family included. It has also become a financial enterprise that is seeing EXPLOSIVE use in teens, our local school district is unable to contain it right now. Parents telling me their kid has never even thought of this or that, but suddenly started vaping because everyone is doing it.

The safety net is a real concern on the public health end. See;sudafed...incredible decongestant, now regulated as a key ingredient in Meth and harder to get OTC than it should be.

And the Diabetes statement is SPOT ON...and probably closer than you intended. Here is the classic, obesity/exercise/diabetes issue, and it is being treated, and created...companies producing high caloric, high sugar, highly processed, loosely regulated artificially sweetend shit...so big money, big food is as much the problem as the lack of self control...why aren't the food companies being targeted?