Programs with 10+ wins 3 of the last 4 years
Here it is:
Alabama (4)
Clemson (4)
Ohio State (4)
Oklahoma (4)
Notre Dame (3)
Michigan (3)
Wisconsin (3)
Oklahoma State (3)
Pending future results:
Penn State
Washington
Michigan is one of 8 to 10 teams to have at least 3 team win seasons over the last 4 years. How many of those programs were coming off a Hoke like catastrophe that cratered two recruiting classes that would be entering their best years in 2017 and 2018?
At the very least, Harbaugh has Michigan back in the top-10 range.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:08 PM ^
And he walked into a .500-ish program. I'm quite happy where he has us. Our rival in this time frame has a top two or three program as well as a top two or three coach. Judging his performance based solely on that game isn't realistic.
Yesterday was an anomaly. For the folks saying he can't beat Urban Meyer, I'd suggest you think back two years to the last game in Columbus.
I'd also be curious where we rate in a cumulative four year poll after this season.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:19 PM ^
what about programs with 11 wins, 12 wins....?
what about programs with 10 wins but without conf champion or division champion?
what about programs with 10 wins but with November/bowl collapse?
which coaches are most overrated?
November 25th, 2018 at 3:25 PM ^
I mean, you're looking at roughly 4 schools in the 11 win department: Ohio State, Clemson, Alabama and Oklahoma.
Michigan now has a division championship (bitter as it is). But with what you're saying: A lot of that, especially in the era of the conference championship game is fluky. Northwestern has a division championship outright. Are you saying Pat Fitzgerald is a better coach that Jim Harbaugh? James Franklin is 1-3 vs Harbaugh but has a conference title. Is he better than Harbaugh?
Michigan is in the second tier right now. As opposed to whatever tier they were before Harbaugh got here.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:52 PM ^
What division championship? Are we playing in the B1G championship game? If the answer is NO then we don't have a division championship!
November 25th, 2018 at 3:59 PM ^
Technically, Michigan tied for the division championship at 7-1, the same way teams used to tie for the conference championship.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:26 PM ^
Woo Woo.
Where can I get my "Michigan Wolverines: 2016 B10 East Division Co Champs (but not the one that actually went to the B10 title game)" T-shirt?
November 25th, 2018 at 4:41 PM ^
Maybe the same place you can get your 1997 Co-National Champions t-shirt.
Let's not discount the progress the program has made in four years just because of our emotions at this moment.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:05 PM ^
You're seriously comparing a co NC with a co division title where the loss came against our arch rival and gave them the tie breaker to go to the title game?
November 25th, 2018 at 5:12 PM ^
Not exactly, but what I am definitely saying is let's not minimize the progress the program has made just because our ego hurts right now.
November 25th, 2018 at 8:47 PM ^
That's the same t-shirt you would have bought with Lloyd Carr. In the hall of fame with every year but two losing at least three games
November 25th, 2018 at 4:01 PM ^
That may be your personal standard but the Big Ten recognizes everyone who finishes tied for first - and always has. Many of our 42 championships have been shared.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:35 PM ^
When mentioning a Coach, such as Harbaugh, inheriting a mess of a program, I think its important to acknowledge why the program was in shambles. Michigan hired Rich Rodriguez and then powerful people within the Athletic Department tried all they could to undermine him and his program. Because of these people and their actions, there was no way RR was going to be successful at Michigan.
Then, you have a massive DB as an AD who hires a good man with a great heart, but way over his skis in Brady Hoke. He was not competent to be Michigan's Football Coach. After Michigan continually shot itself in the foot over and over, they finally hired a man that had / has the abilities to Coach Michigan
November 25th, 2018 at 3:46 PM ^
Every powerhouse that falls on hard times has basically the same story of infighting and whatnot. Alabama pre-Saban, USC right now, Tennessee for the last 15 years, FSU right now, Florida pre-Mullen, Texas recently, and so on.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:00 PM ^
and while it didn't happen at OSU for very long, the Bruce-Cooper transition
November 25th, 2018 at 4:03 PM ^
Yes. Our five consecutive Big Ten titles from 1988-92 coincided with OSU being down. Those were good times.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:09 PM ^
I miss those days we could laugh at Cooper falling on his ass no against us no matter how talented his squad was.
Since Tressel made that "In 310 days in Ann Arbor Michigan" statement, its been one big 18 year fucking nightmare..........
November 25th, 2018 at 7:33 PM ^
This.
November 25th, 2018 at 7:50 PM ^
Actually OSU was a powerhouse in that period, they just lost to Michigan. Bruce never got the rivalry, or if he did he couldn't deliver the wins.
November 26th, 2018 at 12:02 AM ^
Bruce went 5-4 against UM. He just happened to go 9-3 every year and only won 2 big ten titles (one of which was in his first year, 1979, and most OSU fans attributed to Woody since it was essentially Woody's players).
November 25th, 2018 at 4:54 PM ^
Plus, I think people around here don't realize that the reason our rivalry with OSU attracts so much attention from unaffiliated randos is that it was so consistently competitive for a ~30 year period. That is not the norm in rivalries, even ones with blue bloods... like Notre Dame reeled off a 13 year unbeaten streak against USC from the early 80s until the mid 90s before USC went on an 8 year run in the 00s. The Red River Rivalry has featured like seven 5+ year long unbeaten stretches by one team, Florida-FSU is similar as is Florida-Georgia, and Alabama-Auburn. Oklahoma-Nebraska once featured a 16-0 run for OU, Alabama has beaten Tennessee 12 straight times.
These types of runs are very normal, the weird thing is that nobody had one in M-OSU for decades.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:03 PM ^
It did happen during the 10 year war, though when Bo went 0-3-1 agains Woody before winning the last three
November 25th, 2018 at 7:54 PM ^
So you're saying that they won 3 but over the ten years Michigan one five and took a tie. Sounds like Michigan won that particular war.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:24 PM ^
So he did beat Urban Meyer two years ago in Columbus? THAT'S GREAT!!!!!!!
Everyone seems to be under the impression that Ohio State won that game and Penn State got to go to the B10 title game instead of us as a result.
I hope we let the proper people know this new development so we can correct it and get the shot at the 2016 title we deserve.
November 26th, 2018 at 9:46 AM ^
.500 ish? Hoke's last year was 5-7 and they were fortunate to get to that point.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:11 PM ^
Why losing to OSU every year hurts even more.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:12 PM ^
Harbaugh's overall coaching job since he got here and his coaching job this past week are two very different things.
And you can't have one without the other.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:26 PM ^
Overall, he's done a very good job.
This week, he did not.
Not really sure what your point is.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:43 PM ^
I think maybe he might be saying Harbaugh hasn't Coached very well in "big games". Coaches are paid the big bucks to win the big game. There are plenty of coaches that can win the games they are supposed to.
He should have won 2 of the last four against OSU. Last year's Bowl Game loss against SC was a mess of a performance. I think he is suggesting that if you look at JH's performance on the biggest stage at Michigan, he has crapped the bed more than he has kicked ass. I think Michigan's performance the last two years in big games warrants a good deal of scrutiny towards Harbaugh.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:01 PM ^
Sigh. He's had some good ones and bad ones. Like any coach does.
How'd Urban Meyer coach against Oklahoma last year? Clemson 2016? Shit, Michigan 2016 where he was bailed out over and over again by things that had nothing to do with coaching? Michigan State 2015?
Michigan State 2015 was an offensive disaster on par with what we saw yesterday from Michigan's defense.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:03 PM ^
When your "good ones" result in things like national titles, multiple B10 titles, undefeated seasons, Rose Bowl victories, and signature victories against your main rival.......then the "bad ones" are a lot easier to take.
Meyer's and Dantonio's good ones have resulted in some of those things for them. Harbaugh's have not.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:18 PM ^
Again, a lot of that is just luck.
Dantonio won a conference title in 2015 because Blake O'Neill dropped a punt and Urban Meyer decided that running Ezekiel Elliot was for fools, not because of how he coached.
James Franklin won a conference title because his team pulled out a junk 4th quarter against Ohio State at home in a game they were dominated...while meanwhile, Michigan was dominating Ohio State until a junk last 2 minutes of the third quarter gave Ohio State life. Even then, Meyer's brilliant playcalling had Ohio State go 3 and out on their final drive in regulation until the refs decided to gift them a PI call.
November 25th, 2018 at 7:23 PM ^
Is it not a bad sign when we have to rationalize and blame something as arbitrary as "luck" to downplay other coaches's success to prop up our own coach?
November 25th, 2018 at 4:10 PM ^
I think he's saying that you can think Harbaugh loses big games, but that before he was here we weren't playing any big games. Like the most amazing thing to me about the blowout yesterday is that we hadn't already given up nearly 70 points to OSU at some point in the past 10 years. We can all lie and say that we'd be happy with a 1-11 season that includes a win over them, but I sure as hell know that in from 2008-2014 I just always assumed OSU was a loss anyway. The disappointment is a function of how far we've come in 4 years.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:15 PM ^
In the Big 10, for quite a few years now, it's been OSU alone in an "elite" tier, with the second tier folks (which includes our guys) far, far behind.
Sure, there's been some occasional minor blips on their radar -- Iowa last year, Purdue this year, etc. -- but for the most part, to bastardize Bo's famous quote, when the ol' season is over, you and I know...it's gonna be Ohio State again. Ohio State.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:23 PM ^
Three 10 win seasons in four years is really good.
But not good enough.
Fix the offense (yes it is under performing), keep recruiting dudes for D, get D.Brown to have a more multiple D that can play zone and zone blitzes competently against OSU/Meyer/Day offense...or forget about ever becoming a true top 5 program.
Michigan as a program right now is comparable to Washington or Penn State. But Harbaugh has to change and improve to get to the OSU/Clemson level.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:27 PM ^
Michigan had a top-20 scoring offense despite playing a number of pretty good defenses. Yes, it could be a bit more dynamic at times, but people are acting like this is a 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:54 PM ^
I could write a long rebuttal. But to be brief I'll just mention one thing...
You have Patterson plus DPJ, Nico, Black in last month, and other solid receivers. DPJ and Nico each get about 4 targets per game. Black gets 1.
EDIT: One more thing. DeBord had a better offensive game plan for IU against Michigan than what Pep/JH had for Michigan against OSU. Anybody fine with that?
November 25th, 2018 at 4:02 PM ^
Here's where I agree with the criticism and critiques. This needs to change.
November 25th, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^
We also had great TEs. Gentry hasn't played like that all year. This is a dumb way to critique the offense. "What's up with using TEs?!"
November 26th, 2018 at 12:04 AM ^
Top 20 isn’t good enough to make it against great teams. Harbaugh is an offensive coach. His offensive philosphy isn’t good enough.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:16 PM ^
Reminder: It took Dabo 5 years to put together a team that finished in the top 10 and 8 years to become the dominant team they are today.
November 25th, 2018 at 4:38 PM ^
This is very much worth remembering.
Question: How many OCs did Dabo cycle through in his first 6 years?
November 25th, 2018 at 5:03 PM ^
True but in Dabo's first full year they played in the ACC title game. In his third full year they won the ACC and in his fourth full year they once again played in the ACC title game.
November 25th, 2018 at 5:52 PM ^
Call me when the ACC is the Big Ten East
November 25th, 2018 at 6:07 PM ^
Dabo was 10-4 the year he won the ACC and his team lost 70-33 to WVU in their bowl game.
I'm guessing his road to his titles in those early years didn't have an Ohio State in front of it.
November 25th, 2018 at 6:50 PM ^
Florida state and Miami have been crap.
November 25th, 2018 at 9:21 PM ^
Clemson's road to domination of their division in the ACC was a much easier road than Michigan's. Clemson's one true rival (South Carolina) has been mostly bad with the exception of one or two Spurrier years and they don't even play in the same conference! FSU (recently) and Miami have taken downturns. Harbaugh has had to deal with two big rivals in the B1G East both of whom are/were peaking. And now ND is back on the yearly slate.
I think Harbaugh has done an admirable job in a difficult situation. Just need to continue killing it on the recruiting trail and shore up some loose ends (OL, offensive playbook). I still think we'll get to OSU's level.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:24 PM ^
Yep. If 10-2 is our baseline, I'm ok with that.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:39 PM ^
Baseline? Be honest. Up until now, it's been our ceiling. This bowl game is going to be VERY important for the program. 11-2 shows an upward trajectory. 10-3 confirms the ceiling.
If the team shows up flat and underperforms again this year, Harbaugh will be all out of good will with a lot of people.
November 25th, 2018 at 3:25 PM ^
Fire Rich Rod.