Greg McElroy: “All inidications are pointing towards Meyer being reinstated.”
I apologize for another Urban post. I am exhausted of them myself, but felt this was semi board worthy.
I was listening to ESPNU radio on siriusxm this morning and McElroy, who has stated several times since this news broke that he felt Meyer has no chance of coming back, is suddenly changing his tune.
He said he spent all day yesterday talking to multiple people who are plugged into this situation and now feels pretty confident in Urban returning. I felt this was a pretty big deal since McElroy felt strongly about Urban never returning to OSU. He did not mention any of his sources, but cited the fact that they all felt Urban followed correct protocol in reporting the incident and there’s no justification found to fire him.
McElroy isn’t a guy who i would go to for breaking news, but I do feel like he is somewhat plugged in. I’m not going to say we should all believe him and that Urban is definitely coming back, but just thought I’d share this and point out that some national media are starting to change their stance on Urbs returning.
surprise surprise.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:37 AM ^
Anyone who is surprised without the /s must have forgotten Izzo's littering house guest.
Unless Urban doesn't have the authority to hire or fire his own staff, he did not follow basic human protocol of firing a wife beater.
This is spot on. Unfortunately there is a distinction between what is expected from an HR perspective and what is expected from a decent human being. OSU and Urban will walk away with a black eye and rivals will hold it over their heads till he's gone, but the downstream impact is gone. Urban will return, OSU fans will create a monument to commemorate the victim Urban and things will go ahead as normal. Context of his history at UF or his failure to do the right thing even if it meant going above and beyond the letter of the law won't be taken into consideration.
But, to be fair, if UM did follow the protocol, then the Title IX office investigated and found that the preponderance of evidence was that Smith did not commit DV. Given those facts, how can you argue that Meyer should have fired someone found to be NOT a wife beater?
I'm still doubting that he will be back, because, if he followed the protocol and alerted the Title IX coordinator, OSU would have known that before they decided to suspend him. In that case, why suspend? Plus, why would Meyer have lied at media day if he knew he'd done the right thing? It's not like he would have been able to forget the whole Title IX investigation.
I think the evidence we have indicates that he didn't notify the Title IX office. If he did, then he is, and should be, in the clear. If he didn't, he gone.
I mean its possible he did follow all correct protocols the university laid and as such can't be fired with cause. OSU wasn't going to eat that buyout and get rid of Urban solely due to moral/ethical reasons.
I just don’t understand how knowingly employing and consistantly extending the contract of a known abuser isn’t cause for firing. Also blatently lying to the media/public about information you had to cover for that serial abuser, thus making it easier for him to be abusive again. If that’s not cause for firing WTF is?
August 8th, 2018 at 10:40 AM ^
Because the schools own protocols cleared the way. You can argue that there can be other contract stipulatations but the reality is they weren’t in there. So osu can’t fire him for cause because he followed the institutional guidelines laid out in his contract and the school signed off on keeping smith. Whether or not you personally agree with that assessment has literally zero bearing on whether osu can fire Meyer with cause or not.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:57 AM ^
My point was that if OSU wanted to fire him and not have to pay the rest of his contract, couldn’t they do it claiming behavior not in the best interest of the University? Blatant lying to the media and public to cover for an abusive collegue and making the public University you work for look awful, isn’t grounds for dismissal?
It might be sufficient cause, but it would result in an immediate and expensive lawsuit they'd rather not have, because it's likely not definitively "for cause" as worded in his contract.
August 8th, 2018 at 11:33 AM ^
You act like you were there. You don’t know wth you’re talking about! So either Urban knew or he didn’t. Do you believe that the press made him make a misstep after they asked him that question or did he just not come prepared? Answer that one question. Einstein
August 8th, 2018 at 12:09 PM ^
ak47 is a redneck and an osu troll.
Oh thank you! I’ll back off, I won’t feed the trolls anymore!
Love how OSU slappies continually refer to Meyer's provably bald-faced lie as a 'misstep' or 'misspeaking.' He LIED - and not about something insignificant. Period.
Not sure if serious, but I will bite. It was neither a misstep or unpreparedness. It was an outright bald faced lie about violence towards women. He even stupidly asked the reporter, “ where on earth do you come up with these stories?” He is someone that cannot be trusted under any circumstances and is an awful person to boot. That should be enough to get your ass fired without restitution.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:51 AM ^
Amen, brother. You hit the nail on the head. Maybe it isn't just Urban Meyer that should fall but Gene Smith as well. I mean they knew he was an abuser - they had the 2015 emails from Shelley showing the photos of Courtney's injuries. How did they ever justify renewing Zach Smith's contract in 2016? Because Urban Meyer (supported by Gene Smith) favored his relationship with Earle Bruce more than his concern over the injuries being inflicted to Courtney Smith. If that isn't cause for firing both Urban and his boss, I don't know what is. I mean the lack of work-place ethics, basic morals and overall leadership is appalling.
But it is OSU, so should we expect anything better? Probably not, but I still think President Drake has yet to weigh in on this decision. It seems very odd to me that he would hire Debevoise & Plimpton, a world renowned NYC litigation firm whose lawyers bill at $1000+/hour, just to confirm Urban's reinstatement. Rather, it seems like they are preparing for litigation to support termination for cause. Now if D&P says "your case isn't good enough", then expect some big slap on the wrist (4 game suspension and maybe a fine) to try to deal with the coming public relations hit that will emerge from the #MeToo movement and general media backlash. OSU isn't going to pay Urban's buyout, sorry but that is big money and the Trustees will object.
i've been thinking this all along. as much as we hate ohio state, it's possible urban did everything he thought was required of him and the university/AD/police collectively made the decision to keep zach around for whatever reason. possibilities being the evidence didn't stack up, maybe courtney really was deemed a little overboard, maybe osu had zach on a improvement/counseling program and they were keeping it quiet, maybe they thought it was resolved with the divorce, maybe they didn't get all those photos until recently, maybe maybe maybe....
the public appearance isn't good but i always thought there could be more to the story.
I really think the investigation committee needs to find out what went on with meyer and zach BETWEEN the 2009 and 2015 incidents - how much meyer knew about a potential ongoing pattern of abuse instead of what he did in response to the 2015 thing.
Maybe they could have been transparent with what they knew and when they knew. Maybe Meyer had no reason to lie, then.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:32 AM ^
Sorry, but none of those hypotheticals explain why they fired him only after it was reported that there was a 2015 incident.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:40 AM ^
Simple, 4roses: Because Zach was finally arrested and charged. That is why he was fired by Urban.
August 8th, 2018 at 11:18 AM ^
I'm pretty sure he was arrested and charged a few months before being fired. Once the word got out that he was going to court for violating a ppo, then he was fired to save face.
August 8th, 2018 at 11:32 AM ^
He was fired two months after his arrest and only after the media asked OSU to comment on the situation.
August 8th, 2018 at 11:46 AM ^
Here's the timeline:
- May 12th Zach Smith is cited for criminal trespass
- July 18th Zach Smith appears in court
- July 23rd McMurphy reports on 2009 incident
- July 23rd OSU declines comment on matter
- July 23rd The 2015 incident is made public (by McMurphy and other outlets)
- July 23rd OSU fires Zach Smith
- July 24th Meyer says he didn't know about 2015 incident
- Aug 1st McMurphy reports Meyer did know about 2015
- Aug 1st Meyer placed on leave by OSU
August 8th, 2018 at 12:18 PM ^
You can add a little to the timeline.
July 18th - OSU's student newspaper publishes a story on Smith's court appearance. The football team confirmed to them that they knew about the arrest on May 12, but declined further comment. 11 Warriors also picked up the story that day.
Are you uninformed or just dumb?
"In June 2009, Zach Smith was arrested for aggravated battery on a pregnant victim after allegedly throwing Courtney Smith into a wall after an argument at their home in Gainesville, Florida, where Zach was working for Meyer with the University of Florida football program. Courtney Smith dropped the charges, saying Meyer's close friend Hiram deFries and mentor Earle Bruce, the former Ohio State coach and Zach's grandfather, encouraged her not to pursue legal action."
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24265385/ohio-state-faq-know-urban-meyer-zach-smith-investigation
He was arrested. The only reason he wasn't charged is because Meyer pulled strings for him. It wasn't ever a question of was he guilty.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:32 AM ^
In other words..the BUCK (S) stop there>>>>>>> over there>>>>>
August 8th, 2018 at 11:33 AM ^
https://news.osu.edu/public-records-related-to-the-investigation-into-allegations-involving-urban-meyer/
Section 1.5 "Coach agrees to represent Ohio State positively in public and private forums and shall not engage in conduct that reflects adversely on Ohio State or its athletic programs. Coach shall perform his duties and personally comport himself at all times in a manner consistent with good sportsmanship and with the high moral, ethical and academic standards of Ohio State and its Department of Athletics."
section 5.1 Termination by Ohio State for Cause
subsection e "Fraud or dishonesty of Coach the performance of his duties or responsibilities under this agreement."
Not a lawyer, but it seems to me Meyer's admission that he lied at B1G media days could well be a violation of positively representing Ohio State and comporting himself at all times with high moral and ethics. Not sure whether that would be sufficient to get OSU enough ammo to fire for cause. That being said, OSU likely is looking for excuses to keep the liar as opposed to excuses to get out of paying him after he is fired.
August 8th, 2018 at 12:15 PM ^
I think you nailed it. There sure seems to be cause to fire (as it looks from my armchair, anyway), but they're looking for cause to keep, not to fire.
Sorry, but Meyer is fulfilling his contract terms perfectly.
He may not be living up for your moral standards or mine, but he is certainly clearing the very low bar of OSU ethics.
Especially when the words "moral" and "ethical" don't exist there. Oops, they don't use the letter "m" in Columbus. I meant *oral and ethical.
I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED I tell you!
Still does not answer the question of why he kept a person on his staff who has a demonstrated pattern of abuse.
Exactly. This does not disprove the notion that Urban Meyer has a "win at all costs" mentality. Urban chooses who is on his staff. Not the AD or the "higher up" that he reported this incident to. And just because he potentially "reported" it does not mean it was reported with the correct intentions. Again, Urban had the ability to fire Zach Smith. The fact that he didn't makes it clear that he didn't want to, whatever that reason might be.
OSU is in a bad spot. If they bring him back reporters will be digging and searching for everything they can find on him. It will hang like a yoke around his neck, and any disciplinary issue with a player will be magnified.
That's a good point and would work in a normal universe, but how many times have we said this about MSU and NOTHING ever happens?
The difference is nobody outside of East Lansing gives a shit about MSU.
Are you forgetting that OSU is the pro team in this state, and they will put this story to rest once they pummel TCU. I still think he might get a 2 or 3 game suspension for lying to the media, but after they fire Gene Smith and the information director for not preparing Urban for the press conference.
McElroy stated this his sources said there wouldn’t be any suspensions. Basically he’s either going to fully reinstated by week 1, or will be fired. Which obviously they believe it will be the former.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:21 AM ^
The writing was on the wall for him to come back as soon as they announced they would be wrapping up the investigation in 14 days.
The committee to investigate this was 4-5 days in existence and they already knew how long it would take? BS. They knew when the season started. End of story.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:43 AM ^
There will be no suspension because he didn't lie to the media. Urban said he knew nothing of the "felonious arrest" of Zach Smith, because that was what was being debating in the media during the time of B1G Media Day. Simple misconstrued question.
August 8th, 2018 at 11:45 AM ^
Please extract your head from that hole in the ground.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:40 AM ^
You can't fire an assistant based on allegations, this really isn't hard to understand
August 8th, 2018 at 10:45 AM ^
We're all laughing at you. I mean not just Michigan fans, the whole country is pointing at you laughing.
August 8th, 2018 at 11:38 AM ^
You can't really be this dumb; you must just be trying to be a pain. Assistant football coaches fail to get renewed all over the country every year. Do you honestly think that every assistant must have his contract renewed unless the college can prove he has been charged with a criminal offense? There were multiple opportunities to let him go. Stop with this nonsense.
August 8th, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^
Smith had been arrested prior to media days. Somehow Urban didn't know his WR coach had been arrested in May?
August 8th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^
Wife shares abuse stories. Afraid for life. But he has to be arrested? Hey. Whatever floats your boat. At the minimum he should have suspended and investigated publicly.
Because OSU is a profit making company and their athletics makes them a ton of money and there is zero proof that Urban did anything wrong other than keeping a shitbag on staff. Most profit driven places don't care too much if you're a shitbag if it makes them money. I know people around these parts seem to think that the world works based on some form of morality but it just doesn't. Almost everyone else in every business is cheating and/or doing shady shit and pretty much nobody else cares other than for the competitive leg up.
My company has fired multiple people in the past for domestic abuse (usually after multiple attempts to get them help), and we have a strict company policy about breaking up a marriage.
I understand what you are saying, but many companies actually do have policies about personal and professional conduct, though not all apply them very strictly.
August 8th, 2018 at 10:33 AM ^
The crazy thing is that we keep hearing that narrative, and then when the supposedly "unreplaceable" person is fired business continues as usual. People like Matt Lauer and Bill O'Reilly are protected for years and I don't think Fox News or NBC have missed a beat.
No one is more important than the company, until you let them screw up so much it destroys the company itself as Harvey Weinstein did.
The likely answer was revealed by McMurphy yesterday on the Finebaum show. Finebaum asked the same question and McM referenced Courtney Smith’s comment that if OSU fired him he would “take OSU down with him”. McM said Courtney gave him some of the basis for that threat but that he didn't publish the reasons because he wasn’t able to corroborate the accusations-so far.
In short-Meyer kept Smith on because Smith knows of (and probably assisted) in misbehavior by Meyer. My guess is payoffs to recruits and/or players, or other personal misbehavior by Meyer. Given the way Meyer and Smith coordinated their stories last week it looks like Smith has cut a deal with Urb to keep quiet-so far. Not so clear that will continue, especially if Courtney starts talking.