OSU investigation to end in 14 days
not sure if that suggests one way or another.
August 5th, 2018 at 10:48 PM ^
Not sure how long it would take to gather phone records but it doesn’t seem like it would take long to determine if he reported what he knew.
it's not a court case, phone records would only be gathered if people hand them over voluntarily.
August 6th, 2018 at 10:32 AM ^
seriously. bunch of armchair lawyers around here
August 6th, 2018 at 11:59 AM ^
But if Meyer uses a phone issued by the school, they should have access to all of his records.
August 5th, 2018 at 10:52 PM ^
This sucks. It means they are going to get him back on the field in time for the first game. They are even better at stonewalling and being obstinate than MSU.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:52 PM ^
If he is retained by some miracle, the silver lining for me will be...All of those glorious signs on college game day, and chants in the stadiums throughout the season from every opponent they face. I can only imagine what people are going to come up with.
Then it will be just a matter of time until he messes up again.
August 6th, 2018 at 12:29 AM ^
More than this...it's a matter of time before ESPN or one of the other media organizations, or an emboldened McMurphy find something new in an FOIA request. Assuredly, there will be dozens. If tOSU keeps Meyer on board they set themselves up for years of this new scrutiny.
Worse than that, however, will be the shame of their response and the long term impact on their institution beyond football (I mean here the actual mission/purpose of the school). As one who works in the faculty/research life it's hard for me to even comprehend tOSU and their leadership. This decision will define their current president's tenure and the national perception of that school, their students, alumni and every faculty member. Sad.
If they cannot establish that they didn't violate Title IX, they have no option but to let some people go. Otherwise, they attract the attention of federal authorities. They Don't care about OSU football and it will get ugly. I feel that they will be forced to take some action against someone hire up. Not sure if it is Meyer or Gene Smith. We will see.
There’s a new sheriff in town, when it comes to the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights.
If it ever came to pass that Urban Meyer were ousted from his position based on a Title IX action alone, there would be one and only one bright spot for me; it would justify my saying, “I told you so!” to all of my (“M Man”) detractors at Eleven Warriors, who ridiculed me for defending Brendan Gibbons and my resulting public fight with Ramzy Nasrallah.
In fact, it would be at least my third, “I told you so” moment on just that one topic with them. I had told them that someday, under circumstances where one of their athletic heroes had never been convicted of or even changed with a crime, that Title IX would take one or more Buckeyes out, and they wouldn’t like it.
It happened with OSU Marching Band Director Jon Waters. Then it happened with Torrance Gibson.
This would be the third time in just about three years. Told ya!
Sorry to ask but wasn't Gibbons actions beyond defensible? Refresh my memory please .
Too much to summarize without going back and doing a ton of research. But it was more a timing thing.
The victim never pressed charges against Gibbons after the initial incident so nothing came of it. Then a couple of years later Title IX changed? (or something, this is where I'd have to look it up) but the burden of proof was made to be much more relaxed and on the side of the accuser. The new rules prompted Michigan to review the case again where they found enough to kick Gibbons out of school and they promptly did just that.
Then Hoke bungled a question about Gibbons' status at the press conference and poured gasoline on what was pretty much a non-issue.
And then news dug up reports of Lewan's threats, which were probably the worst part of the entire ordeal.
August 6th, 2018 at 11:32 AM ^
You didn't do too badly, but...
Yes, the purported victim never pressed charges and in fact declined to cooperate with police.
Yes, in April 2011, the Obama appointees in the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights (OCR) changed the standard of proof in Title IX cases and urged that change on institutions with a threat to cut off federal funding if institutions didn't adopt that change themselves.
The only reason that the University of Michigan got involved in Gibbons' case more than four years after the fact was not because the purported victim initiated it; nor did the University initiate it on their own. It was because a third party -- a person whom I believe should be answerable but to my knowledge has not been made public (not a student, not a faculty member, not a coach, not an athletic department staffer, and not a journalist) -- who has long held a grudge against the Michigan football program filed a complaint in light of the OCR rules changes.
August 6th, 2018 at 12:02 PM ^
I was not aware of a complaint bringing back up the Gibbons case. I could be recalling incorrectly but didn’t Brian say that M reviewed a ton of cases over a few months in an effort to show compliance with the new standard and that was where it was discovered? I guess both could be true.
August 6th, 2018 at 10:12 AM ^
Keep your 'told yas', Section 1.8. Buckeye fans will keep their victories against UM as a consolation prize.
August 6th, 2018 at 11:00 AM ^
when this started last week, I was discussing it with my wife (OSU alumna, coincidentally). I told her then that Urban's wife was going to quit/lose her job, and Gene Smith (who somehow survived in 2011) would probably also take some kind of golden parachute/retirement/buyout/ whatever and step down as AD, all while Urban stays on
Im sticking to my original guess
August 6th, 2018 at 11:41 AM ^
100% my take as well, glad someone else has similar thoughts.
Prediction: Shelly Meyer "resigns" and Urban gets a 3 game suspension
It could also mean that the school has to dot their "i's" and cross their "t's" as it relates to showing cause for not paying the buyout. They may already feel they have plenty of ammo on their side but want to go thru the proper procedure to get an independent report of the matter. And perhaps that is why they are able to put a 14 day time limit on it. That to me sounds like they have what they need for the most part and need much less than two weeks to document it all.
I don't get how OSU can call it an "independent" investigation. Correct me if I am wrong, but 4 of the 6 are current or former board members and they all have some connection to the school.
I think the 6 person committee just hired an outside law firm to do the investigation.
Correct - but the law firm works for them.
Whether he stays or goes is gonna depend on whether they have actual adults in the administration and on the Board. Or if they have a bunch of jock-sniffers like MSU. I could see where the President of the university, by all accounts a man with a distinguished background and serious credentials, might not want to have this lying asshole tied to his name for the rest of his career. If they have to negotiate a buyout, well, that sucks, but the football program there makes enough in one year to cover it. And anyway a $40 million buyout is peanuts--just ask MSU.
That's my read on it too. They may suspend him for a few games but he'll be able to coach the last two weeks of Fall camp. Which laughably suggests he isn't involved now.
August 6th, 2018 at 12:24 PM ^
I'm a biased homer, I get it. But if their goal is to ultimately find a legalistic way to keep him, this sure is a strange way of going about it.
They suspended him with pay after a MEDIA report.
He issues a statement from his personal Twitter claiming he did everything he needed to do. This raises more questions than it answers. Why was he suspended then? What is there to investigate? Why wasn't his statement issued through the university in the way that his first statement was (when first suspended).
Now they are setting a time frame on their supposed due diligence. It isn't adding up.
August 5th, 2018 at 10:53 PM ^
Nothing like telling the world you’re going to perform a thorough investigation and then putting a time limit on it. They should have just announced they’re keeping him.
August 5th, 2018 at 10:54 PM ^
Bear in mind, the investigatory committee won't be making any decisions, they'll only be preparing a fact-finding report. The decision of what to do still falls entirely on Drake, and who knows what his state of mind is after that thrashing by Pusha-T.
One thing I just keep hearing over and over from the Nut crowd is that "it's not illegal to lie to the media." That's true, it isn't, except that when you lie to the media, you're really lying to the general public. Urban is the face of not just the football team, but the entire institution. Do you want that face to be someone with no credibility in the eyes of the public?
Answer: probably.
At the end of the day, I think it's likely that the only conclusive things are he lied and knowingly employed a huge liability who was just barely skirting by the law. OSU may even owe money to Urban if they fire him. The real test of character is if they fire him when their hand is not completely forced and they know it will cost them on the field and in their wallet.
August 6th, 2018 at 12:06 PM ^
I would guess the real financial concern is not what they would have to pay Urban, but what the impact would be on donations. That being said, I'd suspect donations would go down if they fire Urban, especially if that results in less football wins.
yeah but the university won't go against the committee. no way. if the committee recommends firing the university will have to comply.
however the committee will probably not make a recommendation like this, they'll just say "here's what happened."
August 6th, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^
I'd like to think that UM would fire a coach for brazenly lying multiple times at a B1G event.
Hell, we fired a coach for getting drunk.
August 6th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^
It was slightly more than that, but I see your point.
August 5th, 2018 at 10:54 PM ^
So theyll get him back in time for the first game. They will just change some records to show that he did the right thing. Hopefully Harbaugh negative recruits all osu commits with "is this the kind of guy you want to play for" stuff.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:00 PM ^
Totally. They'll doctor the log book to make it look like there was a flight at 6am that morning taking Private Santiago off the base.
If Urban Meyer properly reported to the Title IX office, why was Santiago in any danger in the first place?
August 5th, 2018 at 11:58 PM ^
They want Urban on that wall. They need him on that wall. Haha
August 6th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^
I didn’t see any discussion in the compliance protocol regarding the fact that lunch takes place in the mess hall, so why would we reasonably expect there to be any discussion regarding requirements for reporting known spousal abuse by an employee or player?
We were supposed to fight for the people who can't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willie, err Courtney.
And, If Urban gave an order that Santiago wasn't to be touched, and his orders are always followed, then why would Santiago be in danger? Why would it be necessary to transfer him off the base?
Do they want the truth?
They can't handle the truth
and why wasn't Santiago packed?
August 6th, 2018 at 12:27 PM ^
Where's my bat?
I think better with my bat.
Plus, I'll take it with me to Col-slum-bus this year. Gonna' need it.
August 5th, 2018 at 10:55 PM ^
Of course that sneaky bastard will keep his job, the amount of hate I have for Ohio State and their asshole fan base is unreal.
Don't worry, its mutual
August 5th, 2018 at 10:58 PM ^
Just get it over with and reinstate him. We all know that is what is going to happen.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:04 PM ^
OSU fan here
I just want to say some of what you Michigan fans are saying is just digusting. Some of you don't give a shit about the kids who are the real victims on the situation, all you care about is FIRE EVERYBODY. Ohio State is a rival and I can understand the disdain you have towards the program, but claiming people should just lose their jobs because alleged claims and not facts is just digusting. I'm not saying Urban is clean in the case, as a matter of fact I want the university to make sure nothing immoral was taking place within the program and fire anyone taking part in serious rule breaking and negligence. In this case, none of us if Urban truly ignore the situation with Zach Smith. He and his wife were obviously close to the family, but if Urban truly reported this to the higher upa...then there nothing Urban has left to do, but his primary job as head football coach. He is not an investigator. If he is lying and it shows that he never reported the incidents, then fire him. The only part I don't have much knowledge on is whether Smith should have been kept on staff. I now that the police didn't press charges against Smith, so initially I thought the university wouldn't have to muchnsince the police didn't have enough to press charges. If the NCAA requires the school to still possibly fire Smith (which wouldn't make sense, because you would be firing a guy who was guilty in the eyes of the police) then I can understand outrage of why he was kept on the staff. I really want to discuss this is level headed Michigan fans, not some of you just spouting nonsense. I woildwou want to wish this on any program....I felt this same way with MSU and their head coaches. Firing someone due to allegations is reckless.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:09 PM ^
Wait. The kids are the real victims here?
Good grief. Yea, WE’RE disgusting...
August 5th, 2018 at 11:27 PM ^
I paused at that as well, but I think (hope) he was referring to OTHER OSU scandals.
Yes the children of Smith and Courtney are the victims. Mosult likely Courtney as well....I still don't believe a word of what Zach Smith told ESPN about not hitting her. What's digusting is the Michigan fans calling for the firing of Urban Meyer like they have all the facts in front of them.
Life pro tip.
Don’t come to an opposing fan bases websites and then get butthurt about the opinions you read.
If you don't believe a word of what Zach Smith said, then that means that you also believe that Meyer knew of what a shitbag he was. Which means he covered for him for years for whatever reason (love for Earle Bruce, Smith was a good recruiter, Meyer doesn't give a shit about anything other than winning, who knows?). Which means Meyer should be gone because he's an amoral asshole.
August 5th, 2018 at 11:14 PM ^
Not sure how many times this needs to be said before OSU fans will hear/understand it, but here’s one more time, using small words.
Meyer knew about the 2009 incident. The facts of that incident are not in dispute. Zero tolerance for DV led to Smith’s firing? No? Only because there were no charges? That’s bad and Meyer should have been fired from UF for his inaction. Smith is given a second chance and kept on staff.
Meyer takes the OSU job in 2012 and hires Zach Smith as WR coach. Why, when he knows about his DV history? New allegations come up in 2015 that Meyer admits he knew about. Why does he give Smith any benefit of the doubt when he already knows he’s capable of DV? Why is he not fired in 2015? Why is he renewed in 2016 and 2017? Why is Smith fired in 2018 if there was no cause to fire him in 2015?
No, friend. MGoBlog doesn’t give a shit if Meyer stays on and goes 40-0 against UM. MGoBlog has an issue with a man who claims to have zero tolerance for DV allowing a suspect character to stay on staff when he had no reason to take that chance that the allegations were true.