OT - MSU remains a cesspool at the top and no, this time it's not about Engler.
Here's a new Lansing State Journal article about the conflicts between MSU's lead attorney and the state AG's special prosecutor, William Forsyth. Relevant quotes:
"Furthermore," Forsyth wrote, "our concern that MSU might be improperly withholding information was heightened by an email produced by the University from Chairperson (Brian) Breslin to his fellow Trustees discussing non-privileged information and directing them to copy legal counsel on their response in order to 'protect client privilege.'"
"I must be sure that the University is not improperly shielding documents from the investigation under the guise of privilege," Forsyth wrote. "...(T)here are emails between William Strampel and Larry Nassar that have been identified as 'attorney-client privileged,' despite not having an attorney included on the email."
You gotta be fucking kidding me
What'd you expect? Sparty gonna spart.
MSU is withholding over 150 documents as privileged information. This leads me to believe that the documents have nothing to do with the Nassar investigation but would definitely implicate other MSU employees in other programs such as football and basketball. It is simply a matter of time before they will be forced to release this information and a whole new shitstorm will rain down on East Lansing.
ESPN is just waiting in the weeds getting ready to pounce.
The worse this gets, I wonder if more whistleblowers will start revealing information.
Nobody will rat out anybody there. No MSU employee wants to go back to delivering pizza for a living.
You got all that from the single fact that documents were withheld? Can you walk me through that?
I would guess that's because it's already hit the fan with the Nassar stuff. What else could there possibly be to cover up?
What I find funny (or something) is the fact that so many Sparties like Valenti, etc, keep insisting this is nothing more than a witch hunt orchestrated by ESPN to save their failing business. LOL as if ESPN would single out a no name institution like MSU
It could be more nassar stuff but implicating them and their knowledge directly, so more personal cover up than university cover up of other coaches.
Either way not great bob
hmmm, witch hunt.
Just wow.
MSU is a textbook case of everything NOT TO DO!!!!!What a bunch of maroons
Cumong....
Who the fuck cares? MSU means nothing outside the midwest for football. I work in finance in the NE and honestly know nobody that went to or cares about MSU.
I care. The team I root for plays football, in the midwest, against MSU. The scale and that some of victems were on the USA olympic team should make it relevant to most anyone else.
I'm not sure if you've heard what Larry Nassar did to hundreds of young girls, but this situation is magnitudes larger than the school he worked at while he did what he did. There are quite a few people who care how this plays out including people who didn't even know MSU existed before this scandal.
Here within the state of Michigan anyway, these stories are huge because they are local on top of it all, but the MSU scandal and its fallout are clearly a national story at this point and has been for a long time now, and considering the scope and nature of what happened, I think a lot of people do in fact care about it.
yes it's a national story, national impact, makes the whole state look bad, makes our government look bad if we can't stand up to msu, and also costs our taxpayers a bunch of money to pay that $500m. it's reasonable to care
I have female friends that went to and currently go to school there. I care if dudes who play sports are able to go around raping and assaulting girls without repercussion.
I have female friends that went to and currently go to school there. I care if dudes who play sports are able to go around raping and assaulting girls without repercussion.
I also know one of the girls who was one of nassar’s victims
Really dude?
MSU really is nothing but meatheads and thugs.
But all their fans went to MSU, UM doesn't share that distinction so the institution is clearly impaired.
/s
No defense for sparty, but I do believe attorney client privilege is under attack, not on the merits, but on the ease of which electronic communication can be shared or intercepted.
I just came from a conference where we discussed this. The only real safe way to communicate with an attorney is face to face with no phones present.
That said, sparty sucks
I see this particular aspect of the MSU tirefire more of an ethical issue than a legal issue. Every person that has spoken on behalf of MSU talks about how committed they are to getting to the bottom of things, making sure this doesn't happen again, restoring the public's trust, etc. If that is what you truly want then you need to prioritize these things over minimizing settlement costs, retaining loyal, career employees, and exercising privilege - even it is 100% your right to do so. You can't have it both ways.
I see this particular aspect of the MSU tirefire more of an ethical issue than a legal issue. Every person that has spoken on behalf of MSU talks about how committed they are to getting to the bottom of things, making sure this doesn't happen again, restoring the public's trust, etc. If that is what you truly want then you need to prioritize these things over minimizing settlement costs, retaining loyal, career employees, and exercising privilege - even it is 100% your right to do so. You can't have it both ways.
I worked for a company that was very sensitive to exposing itself (no pun intended) to any type of government scrutiny so internal emails were regularly cc'd to the corporate general counsel to claim attorney-client privilege. I think this is a pretty common thing in the corporate world so this really isn't that surprising to me. The stupid part was sending an email claiming that's what they were doing. Dorf.
Common in the corporate world or not, it seems completely inappropriate in this context. A public institution using it to shield itself from a government investigation.
Agreed. My company didn't enable and cover up for rapists in its administration and athletics and then try to claim attorney-client privilege while being investigated by the state's attorney general. Just the usual corporate CYA stuff.
I also work for a company that is similarly concerned about public exposure. However, the guidance we received from Corporate Counsel was very different. We were told that attorney-client privilege would not likely hold up under discovery if anyone other than legal counsel was on the email (meaning, no cc: to Legal just to cover your ass - it won't hold water). Context (and content) is important, but we were told not to use it as a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card, literally or figuratively.
This is where I'd put my money as well. I just don't see a court allowing this sort of thing when it clearly isn't attorney-client privilege.
That’s not how a-c privilege works at all. There has to be actual legal advice in the email for it to be privileged. Emails with attorneys included aren’t automatically privileged and emails without attorneys included aren’t automatically non-privileged either.
possibly; but I think privilege is being abused. blindly cc'ing lawyers on everything just so you can say you have privilege feels like not the spirit if; privilege isn't meant to be a confessional. Consulting them on potential things you did to solicit their direct feedback feels more like it's intent.
I bet there are a couple judges in Michigan who would love to order a review if they belive that confidentiality is being abused.
What do you want to bet ESPN already has their next exposé ready and waiting for the start of football season? As much as I like to shit on ESPN, Sparty really fucked them, and I hope every little dirty secret gets front page coverage.
Oddly enough, this reminded me of my daughter's HS graduation two weeks ago. One of the grads had decorated her cap with a big green and white "Sparty On" (a girl no less). I had to restrain myself from asking her if it was a joke or was she seriously going to MSU and put that on in support.
(My daughter heads to UM this fall.)
She spelled it wrong, and yet she graduates...
It is interesting. I get the urge to yell "what the fuck!" at people decked out in MSU gear.
Here is a telling stat. The ReclaimMSU movement has been pushing for a fire Engler petition for a week or two. They have 50k students and 450k alumni. How many signatures do they have including all non MSU students/alumni?
1000.
That tells me they could give a fuck about sexual assault and the egregious job Engler has done. But if they had a petition against ESPN I bet they would have had 50,000 signatures. That tells you everything you need to know about many of their students and alumni.
I feel sorry and support the ReclaimMSU group as they are trying to do the right thing with little support.
That is an amazing stat. Wow.
But it fits with what I see on social media. I'm out in NY, so I don't have to live with it like you folks in Michigan, but I can't believe the continued trash-talk and general oblivious bravado that I still hear coming from the Sparty camp via social media. I just don't get it. I'd be taking about a ten-year sabbatical from all things alma mater-related, but these guys just carry on like nothing happened.
at some point i believe i learned that just copying an attorney on a communication and claiming privilege doesn't necessarily make it privileged. i believe it has to be communication that somehow qualifies as seeking and/or providing legal advice. can't remember if i learned that at a workplace training or during the trump investigation news cycle.
although it's probably rarely questioned if a document is marked with privilege. not worth the hassle to get a special review of every document to determine privilege.
bring in the taint team.
no, not you, dr. nassar. you stay right where you are.
Well, you know how the saying goes: "Pride comes before evidence reveals conspiracies of molestation/rape/sexual assault cover-ups."
Weak and ineffective strategy. Similar to the US Attorney for the Southern District, the AG should request an independent master to review the suspect materials for the presence of attorney/client protected content. Simply copying in an attorney on an email isn't enough to create a privilege.
What a joke of a university.
Here's to a successful search warrant.
MGoLawyer here. To be privileged, the communication must be for the express purpose seeking, receiving, or giving legal advice. Merely copying a lawyer on a communication doesn't make it privileged.
And he gets $1.3M for being fired! Sparty No!!!!
If one of MSU's enemies were giving them deliberately terrible advice to make them look as bad as possible, that person would have a hard time topping what MSU is actually doing to itself.