State Of The Site, Late 2013 Comment Count

Brian

keyboard_bash[1]This is obviously meta.

I may or may not do something like this again, but UMHoops does 'em and they seem like a good idea. Since I've mentioned my general dissatisfaction with the way things have been going around here in a couple of different formats, I figure a fuller explanation is due to everyone who doesn't listen to the podcast or care about Twitter, and Twitter was about six sentences anyway.

I've gotten a lot of emails and tweets in support and while I appreciate them a great deal, I feel like it's not really all that bad and perhaps I haven't expressed any of this clearly enough. So here's an attempt.

THE BAD THING

one-flew-over-the-cuckoos-nest-11[1]

We moved servers just before the season, and for some reason this imploded the Drupal module we were using that did the voting/comment-graying. Don't get me started on that unless you want the animated gif above to be my fate.

The new server is a champ, and was direly needed. We only blew up during the Hand commitment aftermath, and I guarantee you that the blog would have been crushed four or five other times during the year if we had not moved. At times this has been a mixed blessing—it probably would have been nice to be down after Penn State—but having your internet site on the internet is a goal.

The cost was steep, as without the obvious disapproval provided by your comment shrinking into a gray box, dumb comments multiplied and fights about those comments multiplied since there was not an obvious indicator that other people had already dismissed it. I felt this would happen but had very little time to do anything about it since this event happened smack-dab in the middle of me pounding out the 50k-word season preview.

Flaming went up, signal got obscured, and things veritably roiled.

THE BLOWUP

We brought Brandon on board to be a recruiting reporter and he posted an interview with a 2016 kid; he gave us a picture in which he looked pretty young. I thought nothing of it because I follow hockey closely and there kids who don't have to shave commit all the time. (A kid born in 1998(!) just committed. The OHL speeds up their timelines.) Michigan just took a 2016 commit in football, and has a half-dozen offers out. But this resulted in a comment thread in which a lot of people made jokes about the kid not having to shave; others put on their Serious Issue faces and wondered if this was ethical. Then the prospect posted a screenshot of people making fun of him on twitter. SMH, man.

By this point we'd had a lot of crap on the board and this was a seeing-red moment. I posted a thread about how this was unacceptable, etc., whereupon there was a huge comment thread in which concern trolling featured heavily. The ethics of talking to high school kids about where they might go to college was frequent topic.

This was and is ridiculous. We're not about to Rosenberg these kids, both because we're not [REDACTED] 5'2" [REDACTED] goobers who'll do someone dirty to get ahead in the world and that going Rosenberg on someone would completely crush us with our readers, deservedly.

We're going to ask them softball questions and publish them after correcting any spelling mistakes, and you, the reader, are going to post comments like "Good luck wherever you go!" because that's the social contract we have here. That's how this works. You are going to assume that high school kids are going to read anything they can about themselves online, and we're going to throw Charmin at them in slow motion. This is not hard-hitting journalism here.

Anyway. The primary concern troll was a guy who'd been around since the very beginning of the site, chitownblue. He quit in a huff once, then came back as chitownblue2, and almost never appeared except to chide someone about something. At some point virtually everyone who writes for the site complained to me about him. The rest of the people who had posted things that broke the social contract in that thread quickly apologized; he dug in to fight the battle of the Somme. Another complaint about him happened in the midst of that thread, during which my dander was up and finger already hovering over the button. So I banned him, and various compatriots. And I've had an itchy trigger finger since.

They'd been around forever. I regret nothing, except that I waited so long. I hated that guy.

THE ISSUE

A friend sent me this post from 4chan's founder in response to similar issues he'd had, in which he cites another post from Steve Pavlina about why he shut his popular forums down. Pavlina talks a lot about entitlement of longtime users and standards that he felt weren't being met, both of which I kind of feel. But moot's thing is the thing:

Something that’s always surprised me is how often people seem to forget how large the overall 4chan community is outside of their own respective interaction with it. Some simply don’t care, but I think others plain don’t realize they’re just one of millions of people who post and browse 4chan on a monthly basis. …

My view is that it simply isn’t possible nor prudent to attempt to please everyone, and so I don’t. This can be misinterpreted as not caring, but it’s far from it—it’s just a reflection of my belief that the needs of the community outweigh the needs of individuals. Which is an ideal I think most would agree with, but when emotions run wild and tensions run high, we often lose sight of it.

The general rule of thumb is that 10% of your readers will read the comments/forums and 1% will leave most of them. I believe our numbers are quite a bit higher than that, but even so that the the primary thing that happens in the comments is lurkers reading them. From the perspective of the commenters these people do not exist. From my perspective, they're the majority of the readerbase.

Most of these people seem to like the site. They visit it. That majority has not been reflected in the comments. Of late when people recognize me I wince a bit, because I'm not sure how this interaction is going to go. I'm kind of waiting for someone to unload on me. This never happens.

As the season's gone along this disconnect has become apparent. And I'm finding the complaints harder to deal with because with the demise of voting so many of them have become personal attacks hardly sheathed in anything resembling logic. Brandon just took a lot of crap for posting that usually when recruits are open with him that means they're excited about Michigan and Malik McDowell was tight-lipped, which may not bode well. This exploded into controversy for some reason: that reason is there are a bunch of people who just complain about everything about the site.

IT'S NOT YOU, IT'S ME

Why these people can't let go and do something else, I don't know. They're locked in a prison of their own devising, being miserable about the state of the blog while they make it worse by constantly complaining about it.

I am going to help both these folks and myself escape from purgatory by hitting the eject button on them. Like this guy who has 41,000 points, most of which seem to be accumulated complaining about the site. And this guy. Great news for everyone: they're banned. Now they are free to explore the rest of the internet, perhaps to find something they don't hate.

This represents a policy change. In short, that is: if the people who write for this site hate you we will ban you. That is the upshot of the twitter burst and the podcast thing. This is not really a change for most people since we did that for anyone with a few points who came in guns blazing. This mostly applies to folks like guy I just banned who'd accumulated the third-most points on the site. I hated that guy! For three years! And out of some idea about respecting the community I let him fart all over it.

To respect the community, we should ban jerks, even if they've been around so long that it seems that there must be some redeeming value in having them around.

If you don't like the way the comments are laid out, or you think there should be more jumps, or fewer jumps, or have a substantive disagreement with what I think, or even have argument-free opinions I roll my eyes at every six months or so, fine. I have to get to know you to loathe you. All you people are good. In fact, here are protips to not get banned under this new regime:

  1. Don't have an avatar. You're less likely to get noticed.
  2. Don't be a jerk to people who write for the site. Much more difficult that #1, but still doable if you try.
  3. Don't constantly complain about the people I hire. If you want to send me an email, fine. Publicly crapping on the other guys who write for us is filed under jerk.
  4. Don't get mad at me for having a particular emotional state. This happened constantly throughout the season, as if the internet tough guys who were taking the bullets the season threw at them could somehow improve my mood by berating me.

I can understand how the last few years have put people in a place where they find me irritating after once enjoying the site, but all the comments in the world aren't going to be able to change what is primarily a sports blog about what it feels like to be a Michigan fan. If you feel differently, okay! I accept that you feel differently. If you want me to feel like you, that is an argument you are welcome to have anywhere else.

It's been a trying year for everyone, and I'm about to go figure out how to get the damned voting back on comments, so hopefully things will recede from this, their irritating zenith. Thank you to everyone who did not expect me to be an emotional clone of themselves this year, which is like 99% of you. I enjoy you.

-Brian

Comments

Hello_Heisman

December 6th, 2013 at 7:53 PM ^

It's not that awful over there. I have to censor some of my more extreme negative views about Meyer and Tressel, but overall I think I'm treated pretty fairly there for an opposing fan. It's nice to get the enemy's perspective from time to time, but would clearly be more fun if Michigan had held up its end of the bargain this past football season.

LSAClassOf2000

December 6th, 2013 at 2:00 PM ^

I am not sure if it is different at the Brian / Seth level, if you will, but at least when JGB and I do this, there is nothing preventing them from creating another account. Actually, that's what was rather famously demonstrated by the "GhostOf(NameHere)" phenomenon, which seems to have died down but I know iterations still exists. A few people who were banned over the course of the season have returned, some using variations on their original name. I believe - and Brian would know more than I would - that IP bans are possible but perhaps not the easiet thing to do. 

1464

December 6th, 2013 at 3:02 PM ^

The problem you fall into with that is what if two people work in the same building?  Same routable IP.  How about most ISP's handing out dynamic IP addresses, instead of the static addresses that you see in most mid-to-large sized businesses?  IP address banning is not likely an option.  If there were some way to query for a MAC address though...

michgoblue

December 6th, 2013 at 2:00 PM ^

Your comment is pretty much exactly what Brian was getting at.  It adds nothing to the site, isn't interesting, and is intentionally jerky.  Who says that the writers don't have thick skins?  It is the readers of this site that have to deal with this crap. 

LSAClassOf2000

December 6th, 2013 at 2:28 PM ^

The problem never was disagreement itself though. There have been many of those around here which were considered and ended in some manner of understanding if not agreement on something that was said. The problem - especially in the last several months - is the outright refusal of some to understand the position of people on various topics, and the conscious effort by others to be uncivil if not vicious in their remarks. That's the sort of stuff that has been either taken down immediately or quietly deleted once the dispute in question begins to ebb. As a mod, I probably removed about 35-40 people (maybe more, if I include some newbies and the famous "day of game" accounts) just this past half of the season for launching personal attacks and simply being insufferable to others. 

Shop Smart Sho…

December 6th, 2013 at 3:56 PM ^

"The problem - especially in the last several months - is the outright refusal of some to understand the position of people on various topics,"

You are describing one of the writers.  At least that is the perception I have of him.  After the way he finished his last post on the board, I think it is pretty clear that he was trolling readers with it.  I still don't understand why he doesn't just post his information and then lock the thread.  What point is there to discussion for stuff like that?  Especially when you consider how toxic the board has been about everything lately, and the fact that a vocal minority(?) of posters take issue with his approach.

colin

December 6th, 2013 at 2:31 PM ^

writing for an audience of any considerable size selects for thick skin, so it's not that. this blog is going to have it's 9 year anniversary shortly. at some point you get to not have to put up with assholes.

Ace

December 6th, 2013 at 2:44 PM ^

As one of the writers in question, here are the two comments I've taken personally.

1. A guy who'd repeatedly called for my firing posting a comment referencing my mother in the most despicable, offensive way possible. I banned him with pleasure.

2. A poster trying to accuse me of plagiarism without actually coming out and saying it. I defended myself in the comments and didn't ban the guy.

That's it, and if you've read the comments/boards enough you know that there's plenty more out there that I could take personally. I think the writers here have plenty thick skin and take solace in the fact that we're actually willing to attach our names/reputations to what we write, in stark contast to the commenters.

Yeoman

December 6th, 2013 at 2:51 PM ^

...it's maybe only fair to acknowledge that for the commenters this isn't paid employment and some of us have good reason to not want a googling of our proper names to turn up the fact that we spend too much of our lives on this site. It's not so much about not being willing to attach a reputation to what we write--I'm probably as careful with the reputation of my username as I am with my real name. But I'd rather not give a prospective employer the opportunity to connect the two.

Ace

December 6th, 2013 at 3:00 PM ^

Absolutely—I totally understand why people don't put their real names on here, and that the freedom provided by anonymity cuts both ways (allowing several genuine contributors to post while working other jobs, namely).

That doesn't change the fact that, if a person hiding behind anonymity starts saying things on here that they wouldn't say to my face—and I've never been insulted in person like I have been on here—that I have very little reason to respect their opinion, and a whole lot of reason to want them off the site. I welcome intelligent discourse from any source if it's reasonable and avoids personal attacks; I have no idea who Space Coyote really is, for instance, and I have a great respect for what he brings to the discussion.

IncrediblySTIFF

December 6th, 2013 at 3:17 PM ^

As someone who used to be sort of affiliated with someone else who was important, I was thrilled for an opportunity to share some of my experiences.  Upon doing so, I was called out to use my real name.  The information I provided was plenty enough for anyone who cared to figure out who I was anyway, but they effective halted any story-telling I wanted to do.

It's really a shame, but it is just a truth about the internet.

 

On a side note, as someone who worked at bars for multiple years, I have been called way worse to my face than anyone could ever dream up via the webs.

Space Coyote

December 6th, 2013 at 3:06 PM ^

Along the same lines as I think Magnus tries to keep his name under wraps, because you don't want the kids finding out (let alone employers or trying to find another coaching job). On top of that, if I'm doing recruiting stuff, I think there could be some negative ramifications to being a HS coach and talking about recruits in that was, especially if you coach against them.

EDIT: Upon reading Ace's comment above, I once heard his Mom copied her college entrance exam from someone else! HA! \ducks

icefins26

December 6th, 2013 at 1:56 PM ^

I feel we're at the pinnacle and once voting makes a return, all will be well.  Until then, I still enjoy the site and will continue to contribute, albeit much less than previous years.  Thanks, Brian.

RITWolverine

December 6th, 2013 at 1:57 PM ^

I very rarely post on this site (as my point total will attest), but I visit every day and always read the comments and message boards. The vitriol on the site this year was a new and unpleasant development and I'm glad Brian is addressing the issue.

That being said, there isn't a better Michigan sports site and I'm thankful that Mgoblog exists. Kudos to Brian, Ace, Seth and everyone else that contributes to make this site such a success.

 

Mister X

December 6th, 2013 at 4:30 PM ^

Been lurking daily, DAILY I SAY, since before The Year of Infinite Pain. Stayed for the UFRs, got sucked in by Brian's writing (first by that thing about the photo of Mike Hart with 4 PSU defenders on him and the ball one inch over the goal line, more recently by the Denard senior day "haiku" that still gives me chills when I read it). Good riddance to the complainers - I love this site.

michgoblue

December 6th, 2013 at 1:57 PM ^

Brian, I am disappointed in you.  Given your mood of late, I would have thought you would be more creative in your banning of these jerks.  For example, you could have started a meta thread informing all of them that they were scheduled to be permanently banned by midnight, and invited them to use to comment section to beg for a pardon.  Of course you would still have banned them regardless, but that would have been way more entertaining.  Come on, man!

kidding, of course /don'tbanme

Tha Stunna

December 6th, 2013 at 1:58 PM ^

I'm definitely in favor of keeping the blog classy.  I do feel like you're dodging the key question though: will we eventually get OSU and even Iowa UFRs over the next few weeks?

 

Also, people will probably mind moody posts less if you put a disclaimer at the top of the post stating that you're unusually outraged or numb about something.  A little warning goes a long way.