The 2 point conversion play call will bother me for eternity

Submitted by UMxWolverines on

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2013/11/29782/michigan-notebook-buckeyes-…

OSU knew exactly what was coming on the 2 point conversion. I'll forever love the fact that Hoke went for two, but if it was Borges' call for the 2 point conversion he should be fired (I think he should still be, one game does not save your job). I'll probably be thinking about what would've happened if Devin had rolled out for the rest of the week non stop. And I know I'll never fully get over it. Shit.

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Yeoman

December 1st, 2013 at 3:49 PM ^

It wasn't too hard to figure out what the three routes would be--you're at the goal line so there aren't many options. Somebody's going to cross, sombody's running a fade or an out and somebody's sitting down.

You don't know who's running which one, though. And you don't know if Garner's rolling out or staying put. And you don't know what's going to happen on the backside--we've thrown to the backside TE from that formation, if memory serves.

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

Der Alte

December 1st, 2013 at 4:18 PM ^

Gimpy QB, key defensive players on the sidelines, FG kicker in street clothes, the prospect of attempting to stop Carlos and Braxton in OT. A poll among the seniors unanimously said "let's go for 2 and attempt to win this thing right now." As for the play call itself, from the vantage point of the stands or the couch one could suggest a different call that might have had a better chance of success. But that's it --- mighta, coulda, shoulda. The coaches called the play they thought would work, and it didn't. End of story.

I'm very proud of our team for their effort, the coaches for their game plan and how they prepared the team for this game, and for most of the fans on this blog who support them still. Go Blue, and let's look forward to the bowl game and the 2014 season.

Joined: 07/30/2010

MGoPoints: 1925

crhyna01

December 1st, 2013 at 7:42 PM ^

I think they had a good idea based on the way mich stacked the players.  You wouldn't have either of the two small guys go the middle of the field because those are throws that need to be up in the air.  So in that regard funchess was the obvious choice to get a throw over the DBs.  It would have taken too long to have Dileo run the corner route being almost 5 yards off the ball so the second reciever is the obvious choice there as well as the fastest reciever.  That only leaves Dileo to find a hole on the goal line.  This is the way OSU would have scouted this.  They knew the routes that were coming based on formation and personnel just like Nebraska did. 

Joined: 11/24/2013

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bluepow

December 1st, 2013 at 3:43 PM ^

This play exposes the problem with Brady mostly being an observer on offense.

If you are going to go for it, you also need to be confident (and directly involved) in the play call. 

This probably did not happen.

Joined: 11/11/2009

MGoPoints: 3931

markusr2007

December 1st, 2013 at 3:46 PM ^

He is usually money inside the 5 yard line, but oh well. There's always next year, right?

For many good reasons, this just wasn't the Wolverines' season.

Michigan 7-5 (3-5).

Joined: 10/21/2008

MGoPoints: 19372

Sopwith

December 1st, 2013 at 3:50 PM ^

There is no magical 2-point conversion play.  It's a 50-50 proposition more or less and what can you do, they made a good break on the ball and pressured DG so he couldn't wait for Gallon to break open.  That play had a decent chance, give them credit for doing their homework and getting set up well in the timeout.  I'd love to see us switch up our look after the timeout just to fuck with them, but that's all game theory and there's no way to know.

Our chances of winning in OT were something substantially less than 50-50, for at least these reasons:

1.  Hyde/Miller gashing us mercilessly

2.  No Gibbons

3.  Our best player is on one leg

Right decision to go for it, and in 10 parallel universes, running the exact same play, we win that game in 5 of them. Unfortunately, we're all living in one of the other 5.

Joined: 06/29/2010

MGoPoints: 60903

victors2000

December 1st, 2013 at 3:49 PM ^

doomed the offense this year, too much complexity. It was all about getting the ball to Drew; Jeremy needed to drag his defender away, as did Devin F.. Devin G needed to get that ball in there at just the right time, in the narrow window where Drew - if everything else went to plan - would be open before his defender reacted. If one thing went wrong, the odds of the play failing rose precipitously. Too much freaking complexity.

Joined: 03/21/2009

MGoPoints: 12778

jmblue

December 1st, 2013 at 4:10 PM ^

Dileo was (probably) the primary read, but he was not the only read.  Gallon and Funchess are running their own routes on that play and we could have thrown to them as well.  The problem was that Gardner was starting to feel pressure (Kalis didn't protect that well) and made sure to get rid of the ball a little earlier than necessary.

Too many people here are trying to fit that play into their own preconceived notions about our offense/playcalling.   It's not easy to score from three yards out on one try. 

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 102713

victors2000

December 1st, 2013 at 7:04 PM ^

which is why that play should not have been called; it limits the play to a specific area of the field, it needs to be 'executed' well, and pass protection is essential as it takes time to develop. If the defense gets pressure on the qb, the play is toast! Protection has been an issue all year, how many times has the offense ran a play that failed due to lack of protection?

The only time Dileo is a viable option in this play is early; this means the throw has to be on time and the other receivers need to be out of the way. If Devin G. planned on throwing to Dileo, he needed to throw early else he had to go elsewhere.

Except there was no where else to go. His other receivers cut way to late; Devin F. and Jeremy needed to make their cuts earlier to get their defenders on the move, not to mention make themselves threats. When Devin made the decision to throw it was only then that they were making their cuts - and only then that the defenders really needed to take their eyes off of Devin G. Up to this time they still had there eyes on Devin G and they knew just about as fast as Devin G did where the ball was going. When the DB's said, "We knew what he was going to do", this is probably what they meant.

So, yeah. Execution strikes again. Have you ever read 'No battle plan survives contact with the enemy'? Coach Borgess should have known this play probably would not be the best from experience yet he called it up anyways. Same thing he's done for most of the year.

Joined: 03/21/2009

MGoPoints: 12778

Black Socks

December 1st, 2013 at 3:58 PM ^

The problem was Urban called a TO to thwart Borges.  Borges didn't adjust.  He had a huge advantage with Funch vs Roby.  Did you see Roby try and defend that?  Looked like a child.  Should have gone to the obvious mismatch.  

Joined: 11/30/2009

MGoPoints: 14363

GhostofAlBorges

December 1st, 2013 at 4:00 PM ^

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I have a huge bag of tricks saved up for next season!!!! And you tought I would be fired!!!!! The chorus of boos from you troglodytes in the stands is music to my ears! 

Joined: 12/01/2013

MGoPoints: 9

Black Socks

December 1st, 2013 at 4:01 PM ^

The fact that many of you fovgive borges on this thread is why the Big House may continue selling out.  But for many of us we've seen enough incompetance.

Joined: 11/30/2009

MGoPoints: 14363

Soulfire21

December 1st, 2013 at 4:03 PM ^

I think we made a decent play call but OSU made a better play. Even if we lined up in another formation there is no guarantee we are successful, 2 point conversions essentially a 50/50 coin flip.

Joined: 03/18/2010

MGoPoints: 22716

WolverineMac

December 1st, 2013 at 4:11 PM ^

They waited until the last play of the game to use their wisdom and allowed us to get over 600 yards.

Opposing teams saying this is silly. I have an idea of what is happening on each play too but I'm not right every time or even half.

We ran it and they executed and we didn't. There was two other options for Devin, both more open. He chose the wrong one that's football.

It was a good play and good coaching. The people that want change for change sake are delusional. We are grossly inconsistent which is experience and youth. It will come...

Joined: 02/14/2010

MGoPoints: 2509

Shaun

December 1st, 2013 at 4:39 PM ^

For those calling BS, here is a more full quote from a different site. If you really think that the player is making it up, I would love to hear why.

 

“Right before the play, Coach Meyer called a timeout and when we went over to the sideline, the last thing I remember is Coach Coombs like, ‘Tyvis, they’re going to motion into triple stack, and (Dileo) is going to run the angle route,’ ” Powell said. “And I was like, ‘Yeah, we watched that on film. That makes a lot of sense.’ “Me and Joshua (Perry) made a swap call, and Josh ended up going on the blitz. He got the pressure on him, (Gardner) threw the ball and I was able to listen to Coach Coombs and boom, there it was.” To call Powell shocked that the play unfolded exactly as he expected would be an understatement. “I was thinking to myself, ‘Coach Coombs is a genius,’ ” Powell said. “You know, it kind of shocked me. I was like, ‘He really threw that ball.’ It was just shocking to me that he really threw it. I guess they practice it and that’s their bread-and-butter play on two-point conversions. All week, that’s what we practiced at practice. That’s what they were going to do on two-point conversions.”

 

http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/1352398.html

Joined: 02/15/2013

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Yeoman

December 1st, 2013 at 5:01 PM ^

So they figured out Dileo was probably going to be the one sitting down in the middle and they closed on him.

And in the process they biffed the coverage on Gallon, he slipped the jam and was open towards the sideline. Another half-second, either Kalis gets his block or Gardner's mobile enough to buy himself some time, it's successful.

So through a combination of solid film preparation and a bit of luck, OSU guessed the play...and it still should have worked. Sounds like a good play call to me.

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

Shaun

December 1st, 2013 at 4:53 PM ^

They didn't know what was coming all day. What they did see was Michigan come out in a formation, call a timeout, and tell their players what to expect if Michigan came out in that formation again. Here is the quote:

 

“Right before the play, Coach Meyer called a timeout and when we went over to the sideline, the last thing I remember is Coach Coombs like, ‘Tyvis, they’re going to motion into triple stack, and (Dileo) is going to run the angle route,’ ” Powell said. “And I was like, ‘Yeah, we watched that on film. That makes a lot of sense.’ “Me and Joshua (Perry) made a swap call, and Josh ended up going on the blitz. He got the pressure on him, (Gardner) threw the ball and I was able to listen to Coach Coombs and boom, there it was.” To call Powell shocked that the play unfolded exactly as he expected would be an understatement. “I was thinking to myself, ‘Coach Coombs is a genius,’ ” Powell said. “You know, it kind of shocked me. I was like, ‘He really threw that ball.’ It was just shocking to me that he really threw it. I guess they practice it and that’s their bread-and-butter play on two-point conversions. All week, that’s what we practiced at practice. That’s what they were going to do on two-point conversions.”

Joined: 02/15/2013

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StraightDave

December 1st, 2013 at 4:49 PM ^

Hoke should talk to the GRWC offensive coordinator (/s).   The fake FG with the direct snap to the kicker worked like a charm.    Different level of play, I know, but a fake EP would have caught OSU off gaurd because they rushed the house all day on every kick. 

Joined: 12/27/2009

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UMxWolverines

December 1st, 2013 at 5:06 PM ^

Those of you saying ''Well they obviously didn't know what to do since they gave up 600 yards'', 2 point conversions are different. They got the tape of what we do on two point conversions saying we only have two different 2 point conversion plays and we did exactly what they had on tape. Don't you think that's a little ridiculous? 

Joined: 03/01/2009

MGoPoints: 65294

Yeoman

December 1st, 2013 at 8:18 PM ^

There had only been one this year--Gardner's OT run against NW. I think there were two last year, both in the bowl game. Smith ran a speed option on one, we were in twins on the other and Gardner rolled out.

Maybe they extrapolated from goal line situations or fourth and not-quite-short, but they didn't get it from prior conversion tries.

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

1M1Ucla

December 1st, 2013 at 5:07 PM ^

How 'bout you swap Dileo for Butt, give him that same route, give Funchess the fade and Gallon the cross -- I thought Funchess and Butt were supposed to be the matchup nightmares in that situation. Gallon got bumped off his route, Funchess's took away his advantage and Dileo's only shot is if that ball is down and away. Al put Gardner in a position to need to make a tough read and a tougher throw with no quick easy option. An alley oop to a 6'6" Butt is going to be real tough on a 5'9" corner or safety. Gallon's gonna take a guy or two with him, cause he's already sitting on 9 catches. Funchess doesn't get bumped into the stop route by some little corner guy and is going to be a threat that could pull a safety out also. Al gave his guys tougher jobs than he did the defenders.

Joined: 08/12/2008

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