Serious Question - Why Are People Angry With Season Ticket Holders Not Renewing?
I have noticed something occuring recently on the board that I'm really hoping we can have a civil and respectful discourse on because I don't understand it and would honestly like to understand why it's happening. Why are people seemingly angry with alumni & others making the decision to not renew their season tickets?
To begin with I think there are a lot of good reasons to not renew your tickets AND I think there'sa lot of good reasons to renew your tickets. I could easily make an arguement for both and given that I've held mine since 1987 you can see that for 26 years I supported the "renew" side of the debate. But what I do not understand, and would like some board insight on, is why are people angry at those now deciding to not renew?
Look at every thread where the subject is broached. You will read comments like "don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out" or "we don't need you here anyways" and other deragatory posts where it's clear the person writing is upset that another person is not renewing. I truly don't get it - why are people mad over this? And take me and my well documented decision out of this please when responding - those negative comments have been directed across the board at virtually everyone who has posted they are not renewing next year. There was a thread up last night where the question was asked and posters with little or no board history were getting riduculed and slammed as "fair weather fans" for their decision.
If it's true that we have a long waiting list for seasons tickets the departure of some of the current attendees simply means new people will replace them. And presumably these new fans will be excited and happy to get their seats so the stadium will remain full and with new, perhaps more energized, fans. Why is this a bad thing? Why are people upset with those making the decision to stop attending (regardless of their reasons) - it doesnt make sense to me.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:31 AM ^
Let's start another thread on this topic ...
November 27th, 2013 at 8:36 PM ^
Let's race to be the first one to be critical of a thread. That will *totally* help.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:16 AM ^
But it's not another thread on the topic. I'm not asking why are people renewing or not renewiing I'm asking why are people angry at those not renewing.
That's a completely different question and it has not been asked yet.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:22 AM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 11:04 AM ^
Whether or not someone will be renewing isn't one of them. I probably don't want to sit near them anyway. Call the AD, call the freep, walk to a local bar and tell the bartender, but please stop telling us. We have had a sufficient number of threads for everyone to have posted.
Perhaps LSA Class of 2000 needs to start a snowflake thread for disgruntled season-ticket holders after each game. I dont' believe it would help though; each of them wants their very own thread, because they are all special snowflakes, each more put-upon than the last.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:17 AM ^
I agree with the people that will not renew their tickets, if they are not happy with the product on the field why pay your hard earned money to see something you don't enjoy. Isn't that the whole premise of sports. One is spending money to enjoy. If you dont agree with the direction of the program, and chose to not renew, doesn't make you any less of a fan in my opinion. It is just you dont like where the program is going. and yea i dont get this whole we dont need you here. I think the UM brand needs every fan out there to continue increasing its fan base and the program influence in the future. The school needs every fan out there, even the fair weather fans. We need everyone in my opinion
November 27th, 2013 at 10:18 AM ^
If it's true that we have a long waiting list for seasons ticketsThis isn't the case anymore. There is no more wait list. For the past few years, anyone who has wanted to make the donation for the "right" to buy season tickets has been able to make the season ticket purchase.
November 27th, 2013 at 5:17 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 10:18 AM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 10:19 AM ^
100% agree with that. So why is their anger? Wny are people mad at those not renewing - makes no sense to me.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:56 AM ^
Maybe because you take EVERY chance to tell people about what you are doing. Every day you post this same exact thing. WE GET IT, you aren't buying tickets. What else do you want?
November 27th, 2013 at 2:25 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 2:34 PM ^
See, I don't get the point of saying "it's bad for the team" or "it's bad for recruiting" or any of that stuff. Frankly, I think far too much gets attributed to recruiting as it is, but season ticket renewals are definitely one place where it's pretty much a red herring.
At the end of the day, those seats are probably going to be sold and/or filled somehow. Stubhub, PizzaPizzaMGoTicket Packages, group charity sales or giveaways, etc. Even with the weak schedule next year, we're probably going to see the stadium mostly full.
The players won't see the impact of a smaller donor base, a reduced Victors Club, empty parking spaces in the Champions Lot, etc. Recruits don't care about that, either. But that's what's at stake with lower renewals, because let's face it, most people wouldn't voluntarily donate to Athletics without the PSD's. Which is why the mandatory PSD exists, for better or worse. Something has to pay for a $6 million laundry room, right?
November 27th, 2013 at 2:53 PM ^
as a "fan" of yours ... I think it is quite fair for anyone to decide that they are not going to renew at any point in time. It happens every year for a variety of matters. I think one concern is current product on the field and certainly anyone that has looked at our home schedule next year knows that it is probably, OK, OK it IS the worst home schedule in 135 years of Michigan football.
So, buy low and sell high ,,, I think anyone will be able to attend ANY home game next year without having season tickets MUCH cheaper than a season ticket holder. No question the demand is droppping. But part of this is the "depression" we fans a mired with currently. A sudden change from Borges to a "REAL" offensive coordinator will suddenly spring life into next year's expectations and this could significantly impact ticket renewals.
I, like you, travel to these home games - 2.5 hours for me each way. However - I'm going to likely add to my season tickets rather than not renewing,
Go Blue!
November 27th, 2013 at 4:25 PM ^
Thanks Indiana & Mabel - Have a Happy Thanksgiving both of you
November 27th, 2013 at 10:18 AM ^
I think there's a lot of misunderstanding.
There's a group of people who come off as fairweather and their argument is "essentially fuck this shit, as long as this team plays like crap, I'm not supporting".
There's also a group that says "I'll still support the team but I'm just going to buy my tickets off the internet to the games I want to attend and watch from the comfort of my 60" TV".
A lot of vitrol I think is spewed towards the first group.
TaiStreetsMyHero had a good breakdown of this yesterday but his thread was deleted.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:23 AM ^
I'm defintely in group #2 (and yes he did do a nice write up) but the vitrol is spewed at everyone not renewing. That's what makes no sense to me. I'm hoping one or more of the angry people post their reasons as I legitimately want to understand why this is happening virtually across the board (no pun intended).
November 27th, 2013 at 10:36 AM ^
Then you never will. It's not just the fact that you're "not renewing my $3k worth of SEASON TICKETZ". It's that you feel the need to loudly and obnoxiously announce it to the board, near as I can tell every-single-day. It's old at this point, and comes off as being petulant, and extremely self-important. But whateva, you do what you want.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:37 AM ^
Timmay:
It's directed at everyone - not just me. My question is, why are people angry at everyone - not just me? Forget me - why mad at everyone?
November 27th, 2013 at 10:40 AM ^
It's a mystery, wrapped in an enigma. We'd need Sherlock Holmes to figure it out, too complicated for my lizard brain...
November 27th, 2013 at 11:42 AM ^
is that, if we're going to get into the admittedly useless argument of whose fandom is best, then we need to acknowledge the continuum of fandom.
Type A people are endless bundles of positivism and optimism, and will support the team by going to games regardless of on the field product, because that is what they believe in and they enjoy watching Michigan football regardless because it's what they love.
Type B people have a limit at which the on-field product is too crappy/murderously-boring/heartbreaking/unfun to watch, and at this point have a couple main pathways to take.
they can either: a) quit spending money going to games that they suspect they will not enjoy watching, but still spend multiple hours on saturdays watching michigan out of true fandom/sadism; b) quit spending money and quit going to games and find a new hobby until michigan gets better and is fun for them to watch again; c) turn spiteful and spew annoying bs about michigan sucking and owing them something and being stupid.
I'd say path a) makes you just as much a fan as Type A people, but you're just a different person and express your fandom in different ways.
Path b) makes you a fair-weather fan, but not one that we should criticize. Some people just aren't as into football as others, and that's fine, if not good (for mental and heart health reasons).
Patch c) is annoying and stupid, yes, but unfortunately there is a tendency to only recognize this most extreme pathway and generalize all Type B people this way.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:21 AM ^
The reason is that it looks like you're abandoning ship.
It's your money. Do what you want with it.
But in general, I feel like there's kind of a quitter's attitude around here when it comes to being a fan, supporting the team, etc. People are selling their tickets to The Game, dropping their season tickets, insulting the coaches, asking for anyone and everyone to get fired, etc. It's a terrible attitude.
This isn't necessarily directed at you, but people are just pansies when it comes to losing. Man up and deal with it. Winning is awesome and makes everyone happy, but how you deal with losing shows a lot more about your character.
[I typed a long diatribe here against quitters/fair weather fans but I deleted it on better judgment.]
November 27th, 2013 at 10:24 AM ^
Screw it, I'm rooting from Minnesota from here on out. Go (other) M!
November 27th, 2013 at 10:28 AM ^
Does this explain why some of the quitters quit?
Records since 2008 through last week:
Michigan 40-36
Notre Dame 49-26
MSU 55-23
OSU 62-14
November 27th, 2013 at 10:31 AM ^
If a lot of people around here can be Lions and Browns fans, you can survive the horrible fate of only being 40-36 with a lot of young talent behind it
November 27th, 2013 at 10:58 AM ^
That's exactly what I'm talking about. I don't give a s*** about those records in regards to this discussion, because I'm a fan of MICHIGAN. I like the wings, the coach, the past coaches, the history, the colors, the campus, the football stadium, the Heisman winners, the guys touching the banner, the players, and the feeling of watching them score touchdowns, make sacks, grab interceptions, throw blocks, etc.
I'm not a fan of only winning Michigan teams. I will always root for these guys, regardless of the score. Football, basketball, hockey, wrestling, baseball, softball. I don't turn off the games or walk out of the stadium when the team is losing.
Your words and thought processes are those of a QUITTER. If you want to be a quitter, so be it. I'm not going to tell you how to spend your hard-earned money. But I'm also not going to feel bad when people make snide comments about you withdrawing your support for the team. That's what this thread is about. You want people to feel sorry for you, to agree with you backing out of your tickets. We don't and we won't. This is the equivalent of people creating threads to say "I'm done with this team. I'm done watching the games and I'm done with visiting the message boards." You want attention. Here you go. I guess I'm giving it to you. But it's negative attention. Stop whining.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:00 AM ^
You want people to feel sorry for you, to agree with you backing out of your tickets. We don't and we won't.+1
November 27th, 2013 at 11:03 AM ^
You have 100% missed my point. I have never ever said anything about "quitting" on the team - I said exactly the opposite. I said I was "quitting" on financial support, not emotional support.
I provided the records to try and explain why some people feel the way they do Magnus - not me.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:09 AM ^
Then stop giving your financial support. Why the hell should any of us care? Why make a production of it? Because you want ATTENTION.
If your purpose is to remove financial support, do it...and shut up about it.
If your purpose is to start a campaign and get others to follow suit in removing financial support, then that's pretty crappy.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:21 AM ^
I specifically asked to take ME out of your answer. I specifically asked why people directed anger at posters simply saying they arent renewing. Not me..specifically not me.
And in your response you direct everything at me. I give up.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:34 AM ^
Because you've poisoned the well for everyone else by posting the same things over and over and over... If there are 1000 posts by one guy, and someone else posts it once, it's still the 1001st post on it, and no less annoying.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:39 AM ^
Can you try?
Pretend Steve R posted this question or somebody else you dont have pre-conceieved negative emotions about.
I would sincerely like to see your response.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:52 AM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 12:32 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 3:03 PM ^
It's just on this one thing it's been said over and over, and no one really wanted to hear it the first time from anyone. It's not negative emotions about any one person; it's about the topic. If Steve R had posted it 1000 times and you had done it once, it really wouldn't be any different.
It may not be me, because I'm one who has tickets, but I think part of the reaction to those who are leaving, but not because they can't afford it, is saying it over and over comes off as kind of a humblebrag. "Look at my big PSL and all those tickets and how many years I've paid for them. Bah, I'm tossing it all away." When there are a lot of people who watch in front of the tv because they already can't afford to go to the games or get season tickets. And they'd jump at the chance if they could. Not because they can't find a way to get access to any tickets, but even if they could get tickets they couldn't dream of affording them. And they see people who do get into the stadium as having a priviledge. Something they wish they could have. And when we treat it like it really has no value just because we didn't win 2 more games or something, it makes us sound like we don't appreciate what they'd kill to have.
November 27th, 2013 at 4:29 PM ^
I could definitely see how that could be taken that way. And it would definitely account for the latent anger you see directed at the non-renewers (especially from the those that dont hold seats as you say)
See - I KNEW you could give me a reasoned, intellgent answer to my question! I had faith in you M-Wolverine......
November 27th, 2013 at 11:23 AM ^
And the only way he notices is if the seats don't sell out or the boosters stop giving their support.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:26 AM ^
Thank you magnus.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:32 AM ^
"You know, things are just getting too expensive. I have a family to care for. I just don't think it's a wise investment anymore." Because, hell, it's NOT a wise investment. But most of it is "well, I find the games boring and we're losing and it's miserable and THAT is not worth that much money anymore." Which, heck, fine, do what you want with your money. But why does one think any of the rest of us care? Hey, I'm renewing my season tickets. I may even be trying to pick up another one this offseason while I can get it. Does anyone give a shit? No, I didn't think so. And if I posted this 100 more times, I know people would get annoyed by it. Has everyone posted it as often as the OP? No. But maybe because the OP has posted it so often others who do are getting blamed for compounding it.
If someone is leaving because they can't afford it, fine, sorry to hear, the Athletic Department sure hasn't made it easy for the fans. If you just aren't being entertained enough and you don't like the losing...then yeah, we don't care, and we're better off without you there. But we really don't want or need to hear about it.
November 27th, 2013 at 2:09 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 2:51 PM ^
Will help influence the athletic department don't think that posting things will influence a 16 year old recruit. But anyway, that's not really directed at you.
While it might help get the point across, the better way to get the point across is to not renew, and let them know why you're not renewing. THAT will get some attention, if enough people do it. Claiming you will on a message board doesn't move the needle as much as taking your $$$ back. And yes, I believe MGrowold is going to do it. But him saying he will isn't going to get the attention of doing it.
So you're just hoping everyone else does it to get the point across so you don't have to stick your neck out and do the same. If you really want to get the message across though, and you so strongly believe in it you should become Section OnMyCouch next year, and tell them WHY they're not getting your money.
Just don't tell us endlessly on here about you doing it.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:47 AM ^
"I'm not a fan of only winning Michigan teams. I will always root for these guys, regardless of the score. Football, basketball, hockey, wrestling, baseball, softball. I don't turn off the games or walk out of the stadium when the team is losing."
Loyalty is one of the humanity's most marvelous traits.
Blind loyalty is the exact opposite.
November 27th, 2013 at 11:55 AM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 12:02 PM ^
Can we hire a new OC for the wife?
November 27th, 2013 at 12:14 PM ^
It makes me wonder if you understand what blind loyalty is..
Blind loyalty - being loyal to a person or cause despite the damage the person or cause does to himself or herself or others.
Winning, alone, should not be a condition of your loyalty.
HOW that winning/losing is achieved absolutely should be a condition of loyalty.
It's never ok to cheat on your wife. It isn't ok to divorce your wife just because she gains weight... but there are a large number of actions for which it IS ok to divorce your wife.
November 27th, 2013 at 12:42 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 12:48 PM ^
So what is it about how M is losing that makes you feel it's justified? That's the point, I think. If a few bounces had gone M's way, nobody has any complaints.
November 27th, 2013 at 1:08 PM ^
It's the ridiculously negative rushing yards (yeah, sack # are included), no progression in the offense over the course of the season. Repeated poor decisions from players and coaches that don't get "corrected" and barely beating severely down-trodden programs and losing to teams that are much less talented than Michigan.
Definitely more than a few bounces. I don't see the need to sugarcoat the truth.
November 27th, 2013 at 2:04 PM ^
You misunderstand. I certainly don't think M's offensive woes are explained by a few bounces. The offense is bad. I'm just saying that people are giving up solely because of the losses, not because of any grander principles. Michigan is losing, so fans are unhappy. Nothing wrong with that; just weird they won't admit it.