(ESPN RUMOR) Potential Coaching Moves

Submitted by robbyt003 on November 24th, 2013 at 5:14 PM

LINK ($$$)

 Following the Wolverines' loss to Iowa on Saturday in which it was outgained 407 yards to 158 by the Hawkeyes and blew a 21-7 halftime lead, Michigan is 7-4 and Brady Hoke is approaching hot-seat territory. Some coaches I spoke with this week said, at the very least, he will likely have to part ways with offensive coordinator Al Borges. (If Michigan does open again, either this year or next, one trusted college football source suggested that LSU coach Les Miles could finally head home to his alma mater. “I’ll bet that’s where he goes and retires,” the source said.)

Mods feel free to delete if you think it's too much info from a paywalled article.  



November 24th, 2013 at 7:26 PM ^

Everyone involved in the program would have known there was a crisis coming on the offensive line. They've known that for 2 1/2 years now, which is why so much attention was paid to recruiting linemen in 2012.

A year ago it was probably clear that none of those recruits were Andre Smith once-a-generation freaks and the expected problem was, in fact, going to materialize. Hoke would have known that, Borges, Funk. Dave Brandon, who watches film with the coaches, would have known. Lewan, being a loyat guy, comes back for a fifth season he doesn't need. At least now there's three guys out there that aren't ready, instead of four.

That wasn't a problem that could be fixed instantly (well, perhaps there was the option of bringing in transfers but that's not easy to do at Michigan and that fact's not on the coaches as far as I can see), so a short timetable wouldn't have made any sense. I'm guessing the attitude going into this year was "let's survive the season without embarrassing ourselves and get the system in place so we're ready to roll when these guys are ready to play." The alternative often espoused here, running a different style offense (think Indiana) that would minimize the importance of o-line play, would be seen as a step in the wrong direction--better in the short term, but making no progress towards long-term goals.

Next year would be expected to be better, but still probably not great. The year after, the turnaround should be over.


November 24th, 2013 at 6:25 PM ^

I would be flabbergasted if Hoke was let go after this season. Borges I could see, with a budge from DB, but not Hoke. Not this early, with the class he has coming in and is building.


November 24th, 2013 at 6:33 PM ^

I do not understand the blind faith our fanbase has in Hoke. What makes him deserve another year anymore than RR did? We are already unstable as a program. Sure we have gotten great recruiting classes and look how far that's gotten us! Why can't people see that this is the football version of the Tommy Amaker era? Sure let's hold on to Hoke another year and see more of the same. Meanwhile lets enjoy watching the perennial powers of the Big 10 (Ohio State/MSU) play for titles and Rose Bowls every year while we wait for Hoke's talent to become upperclassmen...our fanbase and administration are so stubborn and unwilling to face the truth until the crap hits the fan.


November 24th, 2013 at 6:40 PM ^

I feel like he deserves the opportunity to solve the problem. It could work. Perhaps he's been planning for at least the second half of the season to make changes as he's seen the regression. I don't have blind faith, I just feel like he deserves a chance to prove he's capable of coaching at Michigan by dealing with this problem. If he can't deal with it effectively in the off-season, then after next season, a change needs to be considered. 


November 24th, 2013 at 7:09 PM ^

RR inherited a crater he could do nothing with. Hoke inherited a crater that he and his staff have managed to make serviceable, first 2 years, certainly. That along with the recruiting is why we should give Hoke a bit more leeway (i.e. another season or 2) than Rod had. You have to understand how down recruiting was for M in Lloyd's last few years. M are recuriting now better than they ever have thanks to this current staff. That is huge.


November 25th, 2013 at 1:09 AM ^

There were certainly problems with the roster when Hoke was hired, but crater is ridiculous. The 2011 team had:

  • Rimington Award winner
  • Probable top ten pick and All-American
  • NFL rostered player
  • TE that was All-Big Ten Honerable Mention

on the offensive line. Skill position starters:

  • Sugar Bowl MVP, draft pick, All-Big Ten honorable mention. Current and former record holders for single game receiving yards (including the number two game in FBS history), also both All-Big Ten Honerable Mention
  • Silver Football award winning, top five in Heisman finishing, All-American Denard Robinson. Current starter and former five star Devin Gardner.
  • All-Big Ten Honerable Mention 1,000 yard rusher, as well as Vincent Smith.

The defense featured three players currently in the NFL, another that signed a free agent contract, Jake Ryan and Blake Countess. Four or five NFL'ers isn't exactly a crater.

Again, depth and recruiting were issues, but it wasn't dumb luck that 2011 included 11 wins and a Sugar Bowl win. That team was certainly not lacking in talent.


November 24th, 2013 at 9:55 PM ^

What are your thoughts about Hoke if he doesn't get rid of Borges?  Does he still deserve next year?  If so, then does he get the opportunity to change coordinators next year? and does the new coordinator deserve at least 2 years to implement HIS Plan, thus allowing Hoke to serve the full 6 year contract without results.  

Above is my biggest fear!  I really hope Hoke proves me wrong and makes the hard decisions.  I havent' even seen Hoke make the tough decision when it comes to Toussant.  When most coaches would have moved on a long time ago, Hoke continues to be loyal to his senior RB.  Toussant is not going to the NFL, so what favor is being done by giving him carries.  Smith had zero carries the last game.  Why?


November 24th, 2013 at 6:49 PM ^

And your idea would kill Michigan. Firing guys after three years is foolish. Mark Dantonio went 6-7 in Year Three. If MSU employed your logic he would have been gone. But they remained patient and look where they are at now.

Why cannot you see beyong the immediate moment? Why do insist on being absurdly inpatient? Why do you lie to make an argument?


November 24th, 2013 at 6:57 PM ^


What makes him deserve another year anymore than RR did?

Let's see.

  • Hoke has an 11-2 team with a BCS bowl win (best RR season was 7-5, curb stomped by MSU (NTMSU) in the Gator Bowl)
  • Hoke has taken us to a bowl game in each year he has been here (compared to just 1 of 3 for Rich Rod)
  • Hoke is 26-11 overall, Rich Rod was 15-22
  • Hoke is 15-8 in the Big Ten, Rich Rod was 6-18
  • Hoke is recruiting very well, Rich Rod not as much

Hoke may not be the answer, but to suggest or imply that he hasn't done better than Rich Rod or is as equally undeserving of more time than Rich Rod here is simply asinine.


November 24th, 2013 at 7:12 PM ^

Hoke has shown to be as clueless or worse than Rich Rod.  That 11-2 record? Was done with RR's players. Still regressing, no improvement, and his team is a direct reflection of him--laid-back, disinterested, talks good in the media but doesn't produce on gamedays. To me, it seems Mattison is the only person holding this together. I fear Hoke has lost the faith of his players and we are treading on dangerous ground here. Oh, someone mentioned Dantonio going 6-7 in his third year? Difference is his teams showed improvement in each area from year to year. But I not trying to argue, these are just MY opinions. But I feel that this is another Amaker situation--after we get blown out in Columbus next year, we'll be doing the same coaching search we should be doing this December. Top notch programs don't accept mediocrity--however we seem to accept it with no problem.

BTW, anyone remember early this season when MSU couldn't score? Now look at them. remember when our offense looked unstoppable earlier this year? Now look at us...dantonio knows how to improve and adjust...maybe Hoke just has the wrong assistants...sheesh


November 24th, 2013 at 7:24 PM ^

It was more like half Lloyd, half RR. Molk, RVB, Martin, Woolfolk, Hemingway, Huyge, Koger, and Demens were Lloyd's guys. Denard, Fitz, Roundtree, Lewan, Schofield, Omameh, Ryan, Morgan, and Roh were RR. Point is, they got coached up and played at a much higher level, by Hoke's staff, than they showed under Rod. Simple as. Tired of that horeshit 'with RR's players' being thrown around.


November 24th, 2013 at 7:57 PM ^

I'm pretty good friends with quite a few of our players and many of them seem to have little faith in Hoke, and to be honest, I never have seen much in the way of reverance for the man on their part, especially after the Nebraska loss. Just my observation. I'll just sprinkle that little nugget into you guys' debate. Please continue


November 24th, 2013 at 8:01 PM ^

Finally some realism. Granted I'm not an insider but what has Hoke done to make us think any of his players have faith in him? I'm clearly in the minority here but I think Brandon knows this and will can Hoke after this weekends loss. We gotta do something. Dantonio and Meyer are the class of the big ten. We are currently a joke.


November 24th, 2013 at 7:58 PM ^

RR players like Junior Hemmingway, Mary Huyge, Kevin Koger, Daryl Stonum, Ryan Van Bergan, Mike Nartin, David Molk, Kenny Demens, Troy Woolfolk...hell, even Will Heininger did OK.

Yes, a lot of key guys were from Rich, no doubt. But a lot were recruited by Lloyd, too.


November 24th, 2013 at 7:26 PM ^

Keep it real...RR was set up to fail from the jump. Granted he was stubborn and didn't adjust to the players he had here, but Carr was completely unsupportive and darn near sabotaged him.  That being said, RR statred from the ground up. Hoke contrarily came in to a upperclassmen laden team that simply need to defensive coaching. That was RR's team AND his players.  Lastly, you think Hoke could beat Oregon this year? RR did...


November 24th, 2013 at 6:56 PM ^

Legitimate: 1)he has a better record than RR 2) his recruiting is still strong 3) changing coaches every three years hurts the program and should be avoided if possible

Not legitimate but still a factor: he is a Michigan man who's approach to the game fits the way many feel Michigan should play football. Most of those with power in the program fall into this camp which also helps his cause


November 24th, 2013 at 7:17 PM ^

This Michigan man thing is so overrated. Just get a coach who has a clue and wins. People take that Michigan man thing out of context--Bo meant it to say that only a coach who is committed to Michigan will coach us. THATS a MICHIGAN MAN! We don't have to have a coach who has Michigan roots or ties.

I like Hoke--great guy. But I have absolutely NO faith in his abilities. The proff right now is in the pudding, and quite frankly the pudding is no good right now.


November 24th, 2013 at 6:31 PM ^

I took this down initially because I was afraid of another repeat of about 20 other threads, but it seems innocous enough. Many apologies to the OP. 

I've said before that this AD and this staff would make strategic changes before they made wholesale ones - that just seems to be how they would operate if anything happened. It is pretty much a foregone conclusion that Hoke is the head coach next year, so the lot calling for his head can be quiet at this point - the same applies to the defensive staff too, I would think. On the other side of the ball, it seems like the picture may be more murky but obviously no one knows for certain. 

Bando Calrissian

November 24th, 2013 at 6:37 PM ^

I tend to agree and consider this the coordinator/assistant year, and next year will be the grand reckoning for Hoke.

That being said, if this week ends up a total dumpster fire all the way around, something really embarrassing, a total regression to the tune of complete disaster on both sides of the ball... If morale seems low, the stadium revolts, donors are openly pissed... Who knows? What would it take for DB's hand to be completely forced? 

The only thing I hope is that if a decision needs to be made, we don't get a replay of the last time. Don't wait until the bowl game. Don't leave this team in the lurch, don't make this a speculative story for all of December going into the crappy bowl game, give everyone a chance to pick up a new job if they're left in that position, etc. 


November 24th, 2013 at 6:52 PM ^

I'm sure most people here saw the thing about John Harbaugh (and I imagine ESPN probably started snooping around the idea after it blew up on Twitter). As unlikely as it is, if he did want to leave the NFL (the Ravens are in last place, his Super Bowl team has been dismantled, or at least gutted, he's proven himself a winner, etc) and he made it known that he was available, isn't it difficult to think Brandon wouldn't jump at the chance? 


Of course, it's all speculative and highly unlikely. But, Brandon's not dumb. He knows that if he fires Hoke he needs to replace him with a huge name. That goes for next year as well (when we probably go 8-4 again).


November 24th, 2013 at 7:30 PM ^

Both Saban and Carroll have stepped down from NFL jobs. They both found success and the college level. Carroll is doing well in Seattle. John Harbaugh has already won a super bowl so if he were to want a college job I don't think it should be seen as a step backwards--maybe he just wants something different.