goblue20111

October 27th, 2013 at 9:31 AM ^

Judging by the comments of other readers it would seem that people do give a fuck and would like so more out of such a storied program. 

Please do take this the wrong way, but I could give a fuck about you, your opinion and your Big Ten championship ring, as if your opinion is more valid than others. I never said their efforts don't satisfy me but wanting more out of a program -- wanting to finally seem them take that step into a program that consistently plays to a high caliber is wrong than I don't want to be right.

If you're fine with 9-3 and getting embarassed on the national stage year in and year out -- but as long as we keep winning consistent with our all time leading winning percentage (like Ohio State, Alabama and others are sitting around trying to chase it -- no they're chasing titles) then that's fine with you. Others would like so see more and they don't need to be disparaged by your like just because you're content with 9-3 and pining over yesteryear. 

goblue20111

October 27th, 2013 at 12:05 PM ^

And for the record I have never once said a dispargiing thing about a player that has or does play for Michigan until now. Nor did I use any swear words in my criticisms of the coaching staff. 

Fans like us who paid tuition, who bought and continue to buy tickets, who donate to the University and the AD make it possible for someone like you to get a free education playing a game and the opportunity to play for and win that Big Ten Championship ring you're proud of. Being spoken down to like that and setting up straw men and mowing them down (never said the efforts of any players aren't good enough -- at the end of the day they're college kids playing a game they love) isn't a good look either. 

Again, I never have said a dispariging comment about a player that plays for Michigan (constructive criticism sure but never 'he sucks get him out of there') -- all I did was question whether or not the current staff is good enoguh to get the team over the proverbial hump we've been in ever since 1997 and since for a large period of time before that. I also wonder why fans seem to be so content with winning in consistency with our all time winning percentage and that's that. Winning 9 games, winning a Big Ten title, going to the Rose Bowl are all great accomplishments but 13-0 or winning a Rose Bowl would be great too. 

I just question the culture of the coaches and the fanbase of 'we're winning in consistency of all time winning percentage', 'our goal is to win the Big Ten title and the rest will take care of itself'. I mean if you're a consistent B average student, don't you at some point say 'getting an A would be great, what can I change about what I've been doing in the past to better my chances of gettign As in the future?' 

I've never been one to be satisified with the status -- the world would be worse off if every one were just satisified with their lot. I am grateful for the players and to have attended Michigan (guess why I did it? Didn't want to be like my folks working pay check to pay check) but there's nothing wrong with recognizing we are definitely capable of more and trying to figure out why that hasn't been achieved. The talent has been there -- coache's are adults making 6-7 figures a year and they should be open to criticism and questioning. It's healthy. Everything should be questioned and criticzized.

I said my piece -- I'm done here.

Reader71

October 27th, 2013 at 12:43 PM ^

The point was that 9-3 is a damn tough thing to accomplish. Its easy to sit back and say, "I want more." But it is tough to get more. Really tough.

I didn't bring up my ring as a way to talk down to you. I did that because your comment read "but win what?". My response was B1G championships, and I've a ring that means a lot to me.

When I say no one gives a fuck, it's a rhetorical device to make very vivid the idea that there are real people bleeding and sweating for those 9 wins. I just think back on the times that guys broke legs in losing efforts and it maddens me to realize that fans think its easy to win them all, that never losing should be an expectation. No one is happy with losing. I WANT to win them all. But, and this is the reason I brought up my experience, I know better than most how unlikely that is. Adjust your expectations.

[edit: Sorry, my original comment does read a bit dickish. I honestly meant no offense, nor do I think my opinion matters more than anyone else's. But the ring thing was a direct response to your claim that we haven't won anything. And I set up no straw men. Michigan has won, a lot.]

johngrdn82

October 26th, 2013 at 9:59 PM ^

Bottom line this coaching staff has had some horrendous moments this year especially. Last week the offense seem to take a step up, maybe they found something with Bosch and Mags. Hopefully they found something with Bosch and Mags lol. I'll be with them win or lose, but  id be lying if I told you wasn't concerned with this coaching staff.

ThadMattasagoblin

October 26th, 2013 at 9:58 PM ^

I've seen about 40 posts from certain posters saying that we suck and Hoke needs to be fired etc.  I'm a glass half full guy that knows that Michigan needs to be elite but is also realistic to know that we had NOTHING left after RR was canned.  I just don't get the mantra of OMG we beat team x by only 10-20 points when we should have won by 20-30.  Fire Hoke!  If we get rid of every coach after 2.5 years because they're only 25-8, we'll never get back to the elite level we expect.

maizenbluenc

October 27th, 2013 at 12:05 PM ^

but we almost lost to two of the worst teams in FBS - like down to the last play almost lost - and we lost to Penn State who OSU with a "questionable" defense is beating 42-7 two minutes into the second half. So yes there is a reason to question what is going on. Also, for the wait to 2015ers, that will be Shane's 1st year starting, so I guess 2016 is really the first true measure?

LSAClassOf2000

October 26th, 2013 at 10:45 PM ^

I was actually thinking this in reading some the comments - you know people are down when you actually find yourself contemplating creating Bye Week Snowflake Threads. 

I will say, I did chuckle at his answer to the headset question: "Yeah, I’m not just sitting there just watching the game. If I wanted to do that, I’d retire."

BeileinBuddy

October 26th, 2013 at 10:22 PM ^

I think the people here had WAY too high inflated expectations for this season and are now going all AA Torch and Pitchfork Co. when we're still 6-1 and a B1G Title game appearance is still on the table. Stop whining about Akron and UConn and trying to force those two wins into two losses.

AlwaysBlue

October 26th, 2013 at 11:29 PM ^

I am not sure that there would be this level of dissatisfaction if the Wolverines had smashed UConn and Akron. Take those 2 games out and look at the points the offense has put up. Still, people think Borges should be fired. I think Mattison best describes where the program is when he talks about caring only about keeping points off the board. Right now they are just trying to win. It doesn't matter how ugly. They don't have the experience and in some places the talent to be where they want to be...which is a team that will exert their will on both sides of the ball.

I'm no sure what people want Hoke to say mid season. I would hate for him to publicly critique his players or express disappointment in their progress. He sure as hell can't be second guessing the play calling through the media. He said it best when he said the team is inconsistent.

maizenbluenc

October 27th, 2013 at 12:11 PM ^

if we had beaten Akron and UConn handily and then lost to PSU they way we did. I would have chalked it up to another one of those Borges away game playing calling learning opportunities that hopefully got his head on straight for the remainder of the slate.

As a leader, I think there is no problem with Hoke publicly saying: "Our line is not where we need them to be, and they have to step it up", or "Clearly we made some coaching mistakes at the end of the Penn State game, and we need to fix those". That's not bus throwing under, that is acknowledgment. (Both of those I think he kinda did, but not as fully as the torch and pitchfork crowd would like.)

MGoStrength

October 26th, 2013 at 10:30 PM ^

Our pass rush will look a lot better when guys like Charlton, Hand, McDowell, and Mone are here and not true freshman.  Having a guy like Peppers on the back half that can shut down the #1 reciever by himself won't hurt either.  And, play calling will look a lot more effective when the 2013 o-line class is playing as upperclassman and can run block.  This doesn't make any of this feel any better because this thing is still two more years away, but at least most of the problems have answers it's just a matter of getting them here and getting them experience.  If we fail to develop these kids in 2 more years when we finally have a full team of Hoke's guys and we have some experience, then we really have issues.

goblue2008

October 26th, 2013 at 11:39 PM ^

That's all. 

On a serious note, I'm not thrilled with several things this year and a good portion of is just plain coaching (playcalling, lack of development for certian players, etc.). BUT, I do think youth is a big part of the problem and I think the team has improved over the course of the year (O-Line improvement is TBD). If you think about some of the key COGS of the defense machine in 2011, they were Carr guys - the type of guys that fit what Hoke and Mattison are trying to do on the D-line. We saw what coaches can do with the veteran talent. There will be no excuses in 2015. Let's wait and see what happens instead of panicking. Theres a fine line between panic and worry and this board is leaning towards the former. Calm the F down. 

Section 1

October 27th, 2013 at 10:04 AM ^

My only question will be what distinguishes the year in which Rich Rodriguez got terminated from Brady Hoke's third year?  Which isn't necessarily an argument that Brady Hoke should or should not be relieved.

But if (!) Brady Hoke finishes 7-6 with losses to MSU and OSU and a bad bowl loss to a mid-level SEC team, what will anybody say?  That's not so improbable; say that Michigan loses to MSU in OT.  And then, with a (hypothetically) banged-up Devin Gardner, wins just one of the subsequent games at Iowa, at Northwestern, or versus Nebraska.  And gets hammered by OSU in the last weekend?  That hypothetical season is a near-photocopy of 2010.

Section 1

October 27th, 2013 at 1:08 PM ^

That's the kicker.  Because Rodriguez's best season as a coach had him very close to the BCS Championship game.  Not so, Hoke.

Anyway, I am not going to fall into the stupid trap of deriding Brady Hoke just because Rich Rodriguez was treated badly in Ann Arbor.  What I expect is that as a matter of cold hard facts, Brady Hoke will be afforded many more chances, much more media support, and far more institutional loyalty than was Rodriguez, and so Hoke will likley do better.

Reader71

October 27th, 2013 at 12:47 PM ^

I'd say the fans calling for the coaches' heads would certainly have a case. That would be a disaster. I don't know if a firing would be merited, but his seat would be hot as hell, and rightfully so.

I don't see it happening. This team is pretty good. We can beat everyone on the schedule on any given day.

Here2CWoodson

October 27th, 2013 at 12:08 AM ^

I didn't read the transcript as a disclaimer. But seeing 200 comments on this thread when we get maybe 60 on a presser thread tells me people are freaking out and over analyzing.

We will beat state and people will finally shut up.

Blazefire

October 27th, 2013 at 12:36 AM ^

I'm just going to say the same things everyone else has said in this thread, but here it is:

If you think that the rush (biggest point of contention last season) hasn't improved this season, look at the numbers.

If you think the offense is worse this season than last season, look at the numbers.

If you think this TEAM is worse this season than last season, look at the numbers.

If you think that some of the game plans, especially offensive, have been questionable, you're entitled to that. The sure are infuriating sometimes.

If you think that some close wins against obviously inferior teams and a reak type loss in Happy Valley are a HUGE PROBLEM, look at the entire history of college football.

If you thinki bitching and moaning because your favorite team is 6-1 in a way that displeases you makes you look cool, look at yourself.

I swear to god, half the fanbase is like Minny fans when Glen Mason was coach. "Sure, we're winning, but not how I WANT us to win! GRRR!!! I AM ANGAR!!!"

Truly, why are you on this site if you aren't looking at the numbers? There are other sites where you can bitch and moan about things you don't understand. Here, our generous authors are numbers acolytes. It is what they believe and know. It's what we readers believe and know. They don't lie.