Noise, Piped-In And Otherwise Comment Count

Brian

Apparently it's ND Nation week on MGoBlog. Eh.

eminem_lose_yourself_grammys2    vs    mmb

street-fighter-iv-20090108105755337

FIGHT

This is, without question, a first:

I was there too, with a UM friend of mine.  He was at the UM game against WMU the weekend before, and he said the music was not played that weekend. In fact, he said he's never heard music played at any Michigan home game. Yesterday was his first ND/Michigan game in the Big House. Maybe it's just something they do for us. Wouldn't surprise me.

We both thought it was bulls---. With those new press box/fan suite things they've built at the top of the stadium, that place got really loud. The Eminem songs only made it worse.

I guess that's why they call it home field advantage.

Leaving aside this guy's probably-fictional Michigan friend who went to the Western game and didn't notice the RAWK MUSIC, this is an opposing fan complaining about the noise level in the stadium. Even if this is just more complaining to complain, it's still a 180 from the usual laughter at the 110,000 quietest people in America or whatever. As a group of people naturally inclined to laugh at all things Michigan, statements like this are as close to proof as you're ever going to get about the effect of the new boxes:

I thought the place seemed so much more intimidating
by BigEND (2009-09-13 21:09:28)


with the skyboxes there. It was louder and felt like you were really in a "big house". I still can't understand why so many people complained when the plan was originally announced. That stadium will be 10 times better with those boxes finished.

You and me both, BigEND. Meanwhile, email from people who would know confirms the third-party impressions:

Brian -

I attended the WMU game with siblings who are recent graduates and former band members. The word they got from contacts still in the band is that the on-the-field noise is significantly louder, even if it doesn't seem so to the layman sitting in the 67th row.

Without having any sort of technical knowledge, my guess is that the new structures are aiming sound back into the bowl. Clearly not all of it, but enough to make it louder the deeper you are inside. (That's what she said?)

So, it might not seem much louder to us, but clearly LOUDER FIELD > LOUDER STANDS from a competitive standpoint. In other words, my screaming is more directly helping Brandon Graham to murderfy Jimmah this weekend.

Go Blue!

And this was just for Western. The initial take, then, appears to be that the optimistic projections this blog's scoffed at more than once are basically accurate. The luxury boxes are a huge aid to the noise on the field to the point where complaint-inclined opposing fans focus on it. This is a major win.

--------------------------------------------

So, then, the other matter at hand. Last week everyone had a little conniption fit and I posted a poll about whether piped-in music should be slain out of hand or not. The results:

5: I love it.
17% (685 votes)
4: It's better than nothing
26% (1067 votes)
3: It's the same as nothing
14% (573 votes)
2: It's worse than nothing
17% (699 votes)
1: It is the devil.
26% (1090 votes)
Total votes: 4114

Of the 75% who care, respondents were evenly split between pro-and-con, but the con side was more strongly opposed. This was shocking to me, but I guess this blog's readership skews away from bluehairs. I also have one main explanation: it's the band's fault. Multiple band members have sent in emails about the shift in the MMB's focus over the last ten or so years, and 90% are along these lines:

Brian,

I was in the band for the last few years of Professor Nix's turn at the helm, from 2003-2007*, and I would say that there was plenty of "blame" to spread around for the quieter band. During my years, we frowned upon bands like Notre Dame's that would sacrifice precision for loudness. I believe most of us felt this way, and while it's reasonable to say this mentality started at the top, which would mean Professor Haithcock, I think Professor Nix and his appreciation for the newer, drum corp influenced style of a marching ensemble was the biggest factor. And now, with Director Boerma, who also has strong drum corp ties, I'm sure that influence is just as strong or stronger. But, Haithcock did hire them, so we can just blame him.

Steve

I've got other emails claiming Nix was a huge proponent of loud and that Haithcock asked about making the band louder and etc etc etc and I don't care about who is at fault for what, all I know is that the main reason that poll above came out the way it did is because the band is not doing its job. Saturday I could barely make out the Victors on any of Michigan's touchdowns. About the only thing I heard at halftime was the drum corps. I've gotten plenty of complaints from kids in the student section who say they can barely hear the band and it's 30 rows away from them.

This does not have to be the case. I vividly remember going down to Auburn last year. I sat in the upper deck on the 40; the LSU band was stuck in the corner of the opposite endzone, and I could hear them loud and clear. They were blasting it. Auburn's band was also louder than the MMB. Click the link and see where we were, man… we were in orbit around a football game.

And then there's the SWAC:

That's Southern University making a strong argument for Michigan scheduling a SWAC school, any SWAC school, the next time it reaches into the I-AA ranks for an opponent.

What's the point of a marching band? To be audible outside in a stadium of 110,000. If you want musicality, there are a dozen other bands on campus you can join. Scott Boerma and his superiors are completely missing the point, and if the band is being marginalized on gameday it is entirely their fault. Personally, I hate it. I want the band to be awesome and wish piped-in music would die a fiery death. But when "Lose Yourself" gets vastly more reaction than anything you do and large sections of the stadium can't hear you at all, that's on you. What the hell is the point of a piccolo when the only people who can hear it are the ones playing it? Have you ever thought about the poor schmucks in section 16 who have never once heard The Victors after a touchdown? Think of the children, and do this:

On the band:  I used to play clarinet in the Ann Arbor Huron marching band.  (Why?  Beats me.  I should have learned how to play guitar like Slash instead.)  Clarinet, while fine inside, is a waste of time outside.  It cannot be heard.  Ditto the flute and the piccolo. 

What the MMB needs to do is (1) get rid of all the clarinets, flutes and piccolos, and (2) add 150-200 more trumpets and trombones.  Made the band bigger, and sacrifice a measure of technical proficiency (which 98% of the crowd wouldn't notice) in exchange for a big ol' Wall of Sound.

Regards,

Brandt Goldstein

NYC

Or something. Your prime directive should be loud; if it's not no one can help you fight your slide into irrelevance.

PS: and dammit the hockey band director should dance, you communists.

Comments

maize-n-blue4life

September 15th, 2009 at 11:59 PM ^

Until you all commit over 100 hours before the season begins not to mention the years learning how to play an instrument to audition into the ensemble do you have the ability to "judge" the quality of the ensemble. Even then the judgement isn't necessary nor is it appropriate.

Those students work very hard every week to put a show on the field dealing with rolled ankles, sprained muscles and exhaustion to show support for their team and their university. They are the students who stay until the end of the game no matter what is going on. They are the students who are always cheering the team forward even if they're in a rut.

The opinions expressed here personally attack 300+ dedicated musicians who's membership in the band is to support the team and those who are in attendance as well as to do what they love; play music.

What have you done lately to keep stadium morale up? Drank a case of beer then stumbled out during the third quarter? or sat around and blogged about how everyone else is doing what you are not incorrectly?

band_lover

September 16th, 2009 at 12:25 AM ^

Like maize-n-blue4life explained, the band puts in hours and hours of work to make it great!! These aren't music students who get out of some class to be in the band. These are engineers, nurses, math majors, biology majors, etc, etc. They take 15/16 credits of classes and still make the time to go to 1.5 hours of practice EVERY day (and that's not even counting the 2 full weeks of 9am-10pm band weeks before school even starts) and get up at 6:00 on Saturdays just so they can support their school and make the band the best band out there. They have to memorize music, perfect flag work, and do entries (the high step they do in pregame) every day of every week so that they can be perfect in the game! I dare any of you to RUN up 208 stairs, making sure your hip-to-thigh angle is above 90 degrees each time (the equivalence of doing pregame) every single day. Oh yeah, and about 5 seconds after you finish, you somehow have to find the air to play 6 or so full-length songs. If you can do that without a single complaint, then maybe you deserve to tell the hard-working students of the band that they just are trying hard enough!

The MMB works hard, has great musicality, and performs consistently great shows every single week. How often can we say that about our football team...but somehow people didn't think they would be a better coach than Rich Rod, which is basically what your saying when you bash Prof. Boerma. Just shut up when you don't know what your talking about....the band is a great organization made up of great performers, and NO ONE should be allowed to take away from the hard work and dedication they put in because they want to show school spirit (not because they are revered like football players or paid or anything like that. No, they do it just because they want to support their school). So the next time your going to the big house, maybe you should think about respecting the band a bit more.

spmancuso

September 16th, 2009 at 12:26 AM ^

Should those of us who can't hear this wonderful band (and I agree with that) just "shut up"?? Don't you care if we can hear you??

After all the work that is put in by the band, which I completely respect, aren't you incredibly disappointed to hear that a gigantic portion of the crowd NEVER hears you during the game?

There has to be a better place to locate the band so that more of us can hear you.

MMBGoBlue

September 16th, 2009 at 12:27 AM ^

First, I cannot believe anyone on this blog would ever blast the band in such a way as I am seeing now. No matter what you think about the canned music, the truth is that the students in the band deserve to be supported. They work extremely hard to produce what 110,000 people will see every Saturday, and it is unfair to say they aren't doing their jobs when they put in that kind of time and hard work to support the Wolverines.

You say the problem is volume. Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe the reason the band sounds quieter this year is because the canned music is extremely loud and pumped over huge loudspeakers in every corner of the stadium? Relative to that, sure, the band is quieter. They can't be everywhere at once. The Big House is not designed as an acoustic concert hall, and the truth is that there are people who won't be able to hear the band from where it is situated. This is not the band's fault, it is the design.

Every week the band works on getting more sound out of their horns. For those who say the problem is Boerma, that is not true. He has been working just as hard as any past director on volume. It is true that he focuses on intonation and good sound as well, but anyone who knows anything about physics will tell you this will only increase the volume. Besides, who wants a band that is extremely loud but sounds bad? All you need to do is go to a rehearsal at Elbel to hear him say "Fill up the Big House!", or "Are you giving 110%?!" as he does nearly every day.

Additionally, those who wish to rid the band of the woodwinds don't really know the band. I must admit I am biased on this point as I am a woodwind player, but I still think there is an argument to be made here. True, you cannot hear the piccolos and clarinets very well in the Big House; at least not all of the time. But, as it has been stated previously, those parts in The Victors are very important, even if you don't know it. Come to an indoor band concert (Band-O-Rama, Crisler Concert) or purchase a recording and listen. Making the band entirely trombones/brass would change the sound drastically. Another point to be made is that the woodwind players are usually some of the best marchers in the band and their Pregame positions are the most competitive, making them strive to be better each week so they can be a part of the Block M. Taking away the woodwinds would most certainly make the band suffer visually, if not musically.

On a final note, I really don't care if canned music is played in the stadium, especially if it works in pumping up the fans. With some work on coordination with the band and planning on what music should be played when, I think it could work, as long as the band isn't left in the dust too often. They work too hard to have their chance to perform neglected simply because they "aren't loud enough" every minute of the game in every corner of the stadium. It's not all about volume, people. Michigan is not a place for exhibiting only brawn and power, but also grace, class, and distinction. It's not just how loud we are, but what we say that matters.

pjmasi

September 16th, 2009 at 1:02 AM ^

So please, stop playing the Victors Waltz unless the game truly was a waltz. 11-second nail-biter wins do not apply.

You know what MMB says on the radio, immediately after Frank Beckmann yells "Michigan wins!" as the clock winds to zero?

--tubas--
oom BAH BAH oom BAH BAH oom BAH BAH oom BAH BAH
--/tubas--

Seriously? That's your final media sound bite before they cut to the national TV audience? oom BAH BAH from the tubas, not HAIL! from the whole band? The mics pick this up loud and clear, and it makes me cringe EVERY time.

It's this kind of thing that leads to the general attitude that the band is oblivious to how they fit into the game day picture. Boerma hasn't figured out how to stop the band from playing "let's go blue!" when our offense is on the field. Granted, it's harder with the Rich Rod hurry-up offense than it used to be, but come on! When I have to be annoyed at my own band for messing up the offense's communication, that's not a positive thing.

It's not just volume, it's presence. The presence just isn't there right now.

ProudMMBMember

September 16th, 2009 at 10:02 AM ^

Well, since you feel that way, why don't we change it? Just for you.

Now, I don't mean to be rude, but that's just silly. Your opinion counts for one out of hundreds of thousands of Michigan fans, maybe even millions of Michigan fans. The greater majority of them may (or, may not - I've never taken a poll, and I doubt you have either) love to hear the Victors Waltz every game. Personally, I think it's pretty funny, and loads of fun, to play after we win. And regardless - as soon as we're done, we DO play the trio from The Victors. And perhaps you haven't noticed but The Victors Waltz, like Calyptors and Intimidation, is a variation on the theme of the Victors, so technically "Hail!" is the first thing we are saying, just in a different way than we do when we score a touchdown.

stormhit

September 16th, 2009 at 11:22 AM ^

...when it was played in the final minute of a game that has been decided like it was when it was introduced in what...1998 I think? The 'tradition'(but really it's an error that caught on) of waiting until the clock hits zero is not something you need to be defending just to defend it. It can be improved.

BTW, anyone that knows that it's actually called the Victors Waltz was probably in the band, so your lecture is pretty funny.

pjmasi

September 16th, 2009 at 12:06 PM ^

Radio & TV often cut away before you get to the trio so they can play commercials before their postgame coverage. The audience doesn't hear the fight song as a sign-off because it takes too long to get to that.

Sure, it's a minor detail, but i know the MMB cares a LOT about details. I also know that this detail is hard to detect as a band member, because you're busy playing and not listening to the radio or watching TV.

So, as a former band member who loved his time at Michigan and understands that you couldn't be expected to have that experience, I'm sharing some feedback from different perspective. Do with it what you will.

kwolverine10

September 16th, 2009 at 2:46 PM ^

Almost every time the band ends up playing when the offense is communicating is due to the tv and game day schedule folks telling MMB Staff via headset that we have to play something. Believe you me that the band cares just as much about the offense being able to communicate to make amazing plays as they did last Saturday, however, when the band is told to play, we play. That is the commitment we make as members of the MMB, and we are proud to uphold that commitment. However, if you truly feel that we are affecting the offense adversely, I would strike it up with the game day planning folks, who have every second of the game day repertoire planned (including when we play and when we don't).

ameed

September 16th, 2009 at 1:11 AM ^

Full disclosure: I am an MMB alum so I don't want this to come off as "back in my day we did blah blah better." Okay, point by point:

I haven't taken the time to read all the comments, but I don't think people are blasting the band members. It is more of a general complaint on the inability to hear the group - whether that is on the administration or physics...who knows? Moreover, people are pissed that piped in music is replacing some of the role of the band precisely because many of us value that tradition of the MMB and the Big House experience.

I don't think you can blame the piped in music, the problem was around the last couple years as well. The move to the student section has actually made the band harder to hear during the game however, I'll give you that. However, Pregame is hard to hear, which has nothing to do with piped in music or where the band sits.

I'm sure Boerma is working just as hard as the band, but many people aren't hearing the results as you can tell by the comments. I don't know if I have a solution, unfortunately.

The people calling for all brass don't know what they are talking about, ignore them.

I know it sounds plenty loud when you are in the band, but as an alumni now in section Denard (16) I literally could not hear the Victors this past week unless I noticed the Hails from the student section and then strained to follow along. Again, I don't know the solution and this sucks.

Last point: its not about the volume, but in a 110,000 person stadium, if 80% of the crowd can't hear, isn't that a problem? I am not advocating Wisconsin style craptacular blaring, but man it is hard to hear.

To wrap up, it is sorta nice we are distracted by this topic since the TEAM IS LOOKING AWESOME and there is a lot less to complain about on the field. Go Blue!

MyThoughts

September 16th, 2009 at 12:56 AM ^

To the MgoBlog Community,

After spending a great deal of time closely reading dozens of posts with regards to the Michigan Marching Band's role in football Saturdays, I can honestly say that I have never felt more disappointed in Michigan. We are all (or have been) fortunate enough to attend one of the best universities in the world, and I'd like to think it isn't by accident; every Michigan student (past, present, and future), truly is among the leaders and best, which is why we are all here. However, after reading some of the published posts, I am no longer convinced that every student really belongs at Michigan because those who truly stand apart as the leaders and best would not go through such great lengths to publish inaccurate truths about the Michigan Marching Band and tarnish its 112 years of dense tradition and history.

To those who think they can fix the band, I recommend learning all about it first before offering suggestions. When I say "learn about it," I'm not just referring to having an ability to recite historical facts or logistical tidbits; my plea is for anyone to dive deeper in order to firmly understand the dedication that its members have to the program, our athletics, and the University of Michigan. To save you some time, I'll offer a few points of interest:

The members of the Michigan Marching Band are among the most committed fans in Michigan history. Current students, if you'd like to dispute, please think about these things first: at the Northwestern Game last year, when did you leave the game? Did you arrive for the pregame show? Did you stay through the final seconds of the 4th quarter? How about any other football Saturday when conditions weren't ideal? Have you left early or arrived late even just one time? The Michigan Marching band hasn't and never will, not because the group is obligated, but because the members of the group are truly committed to the cause.

When you arrive back in Ann Arbor at the end of August, how do you spend your days before the first football game? The Michigan Marching band has 2 weeks of 12 hour practice days to properly prepare for the first game so that they can remain the best college band in the nation.

When our team is losing during a game, or has lost a few games in a row, what group of people strives to bring positive energy to the Michigan Stadium environment? Answer- the Michigan Marching Band.

Anyone can go back and forth discussing the pros and cons of pre-recorded music, anyone can theorize why it's difficult to hear the band at any given time or in any given location, and anyone can offer suggestions on how to improve the overall Game Day Experience.

As a member of the Michigan Marching Band, I personally embrace civil and well-informed discussion that leads to improvement and a better overall experience, but based on what I have previously read, many of you need to step back before insulting the work that goes into countless hours of tiring and sometimes very uncomfortable rehearsals because at the end of the day, students come and go, but the Michigan Marching Band has been and will always be an integral part of Michigan Football.

One last note...are you "All in for Michigan?" Just because it's the "theme slogan" for this year doesn't suggest that being "partially in for Michigan" has been acceptable in the past. The Michigan Marching Band has been all in for 112 seasons and will continue to be "All in for Michigan;" no ifs ands or buts about it!

asb438

September 16th, 2009 at 12:59 AM ^

The comments stating that the band was in the same place 30 years ago just simply aren't true. It was moved to its current location in the student section in 2006. If you understand sound at all, you'd realize that sitting behind the band, to the side, or all the way across the stadium, you're not going to be able to hear it. My brother-in-law has season tickets to the Michigan games in section 44, and EVERY TIME I've gone to the game with him (since 2004), I've been more than able to hear the band.

As a current member, I can say that all sections play very, very loudly. So loud, in fact, that I usually wear earplugs in music rehearsal because I sit in front of the trombones and behind the piccolos. Many of the piccolo and clarinet players also wear earplugs for the same reason (clarinets are right in front of the trumpets).

More importantly, I cannot believe the number of people that have been bashing a tradition that is so much bigger than all of us. If you were really "All in", you would ask that the band be moved to a more acoustically appropriate location to more effectively contribute to the game-time atmosphere. As members of the band, we want and work to be the Leaders and Best. Former members, your freshman or senior year of Marching Band will always be when "the band was the best". Everyone else, you will always have fond memories of "I remember when...". The fact of the matter is that the band is here as it is now. Comparison games are time-wasting. The MMB dedicates ridiculous amounts of time every day to be a part of the game day experience, and you should work to help us make that happen instead of tearing us apart.

uofm2010

September 16th, 2009 at 1:21 AM ^

One of the most frustrating things about blogging/the internet/globalization is that bad information travels just as fast and to as many people as good information. Many of you are so embarrassingly far out of your element. Others seem to have such selective memories that trying to change their minds is likely impossible. I will try anyway.

Until about four years ago, the band was situated on the field facing the student section. I'm not sure whose decision it was to put the band in the stands, closely surrounded by thousands of bodies, but I would wager that the "band administration" was not too involved in the decision. No matter whose decision it was, it can't have helped the band sound any louder. As someone, who sounded comparatively quite intelligent and probably shouldn't have based on the obviousness of the comment, said earlier, bodies absorb sound. Moreover, I believe it was written with incredulity in the original post that the student section can't hear the band very well. That's odd considering the band faces the opposite direction. Nix's MMB faced the student section and wasn't surrounded by bodies on three sides. Additionally, Nix was as intolerant of crass sounds as Prof. Boerma, and in his final years as director, Nix's MMB was about 50-100 members bigger than the current one (I was in the band under both directors). So if you found yourself nodding in agreement when reading what Brandt Goldstein and Steve sent to Brian, maybe having simply thought about how the band's situation has changed will help you along to some form of understanding.

To those of you completely out of your element: clarinets and piccolos (we don't have flutes) have a completely unique part in the Victors. It is fast, high pitched, and has large note intervals. This means that brass instruments alone, despite collectively representing bass, baritone, tenor, alto, and maybe soprano voices, would have much more difficulty playing the real version of the Victors as well and with as much ease as an MMB with piccs and clarinets. Piccs and clarinets also provide overtones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtone) that make the MMB sound distinct from (some-knowledgeable-people might say better than) all or mostly brass bands like those at OSU and MSU.

People respond to PIM not because it is loud, but because it is music. The MMB is not amplified by microphones and so is not magically transported to every corner of the stadium. If you, like Brian, simply want to hear loud and not music ("What's the point of a marching band? To be audible outside in a stadium of 110,000. If you want musicality, there are a dozen other bands on campus you can join."), then neither PIM nor the MMB are for you.

Basically, I think most people appreciate mgoblog's opinions and information on football. I wouldn't expect to come on here tomorrow to find nonsensical opinions about Tort Law or Shakespeare. You're as far from a legitimate understanding of these two topics as you are music/the MMB.

Jill

September 16th, 2009 at 2:20 AM ^

so when you have nothing to complain about regarding the football team you go for the MMB's jugular? What a slap in the face to a group of students who work their asses off every week to maintain the rich tradition that we ALL enjoy on football Saturdays.
Thank you MMB, MyThoughts, uofm2010, and asb438 for your comments.
Shame on you Brian for even going there.

cfaller96

September 16th, 2009 at 10:34 AM ^

Brian: I love the band and hate the RAWK music. But we can't hear the band so if nothing changes the RAWK music will continue. Band, please fix.

Jill: OMG TEH OUTRAGE!!!!!

...

I love the fact that band supporters think that people saying "we can't hear you" represents some sort of "slap in the face" to all the hard work and dedication and etc. to the band members. Uh, if people can't hear you, they can't hear you. This is a unique thing called "reality." Please familiarize yourself with this concept.

People can't hear the band. That's the reality. So, if people are faced with the choice of getting loud and pumped up with A) RAWK music or B) nothing, 99 out of 100 people will choose A. I don't understand how this represents some sort of "insult" to the band.

gobluelikewoah

September 16th, 2009 at 1:46 AM ^

I'm reading a lot of really indignant responses to some pretty asinine comments, but as a former MMB member and ridiculously huge Michigan fan, I feel like there is a point being missed.

The band members who comment here are obviously huge Michigan fans. So there is no need to go on about how much you yourself are All In... at 4:45, look around you, and try to ascertain whether or not every single one of your peers is All In and ask yourself, why are they here? if the answer is simply because they wanted to be in band, they have no place on that most sacred of all college fields. What always has been impressive about the MMB was their dedication to Meechigan.

the Marching Band is one of the luckiest groups on campus. They get to give 2 hours of time every day, and enough mental and physical dedication to rival the rest of their 16 credit schedule all towards Michigan Tradition, specifically football. Can you say that everyone in your section, from piccs to the drumline, has that attitude?? or can you peg those who will whine about being tired, or not having time to memorize their music, or... anything!

The MMB demands respect because at the end of the day, no matter what, they are ready to bleed maize and blue for their University, and on Saturday not even a pack of wolverines could keep them from Taking that Field.

Now, look down the field at your leader and Drum Major. you know he feels the same, otherwise you wouldn't have voted for him.

and look up to the tower at your director. can you say he feels the same? or does he play for the sake of playing, with the hopes of moving up the band director roster to someday have a 'real' directing position? it's a shame that 'marching band director' has become a stepping stone. turning a marching band into a concert band is just silly.

I've read a lot about volume vs. intonation... and that is what made the Michigan Marching Band the best in the country. who says there has to be one or the other? The MMB was able to push beyond what should have been in the realm of the possible and fill up the Big House without sounding like a waste of wool and metal. the range of the MMB should be forte and louder. In row 39 sect 26 not hearing any of the band during HALFTIME is absolutely unacceptable. its true that playing super quiet will make your loud moments seem that much louder... unless you can't hear either of them.

Prof. Boerma does a lot of talking. too much. the Michigan Marching Band is the only one anyone wants to hear. so dammit, let's hear you. you aren't in band so any director can tell you what to do, you're in band because it's the absolute in Michigan fan-dom. you Take the field first. you set the stage for the game that follows. in enemy territory, you are the spearhead, leading not only your team, but your school towards it's tradition of excellence. you are not just there for a show and a free apple. remember who you play for.

We play for Michigan.

markusr2007

September 16th, 2009 at 2:47 AM ^

Look, everyone knows the MMB is the best in the country.
"I'm not going to debate you, Jerry. This is not a debate!"
Nobody should be questioning MMB work ethic, music quality or the "musicality" of MMB members.

Jeezus, I just want to hear what the MMB band is playing during a freaking football game!

The sound engineering for the band is screwed up or just non-existent. This can and should be fixed rather easily so that at least all 110,000+ in the Stadium can hear WTF is being played. An added bonus would be if it were loud enough that residents of Ypsi and Saline could also hear what the MMB band has to play on Saturday.

maracle

September 16th, 2009 at 3:45 AM ^

I sit directly opposite the MMB in the same end zone...basically directly down the goal line from the student section (in row 26). So the band is pointed right at me, and I still could not follow the Victors after touchdowns, it was not possible to hear where they were in the song.

So I have to agree, the band needs to get louder. I don't see how anyone in the opposite end zone could possibly hear them. Or how the team could hear them when playing down at the other end.

pawolverine

September 16th, 2009 at 6:33 AM ^

The comments here have gone way off track.

It's not about how "all in" the band members are, or how hard the band is working, or how dedicated the band members are, or "my old band was better than your new band."

It's not about the musical or marching band knowledge of the fans making comments.

It's about quality. Meaning, understanding what your customer wants and delivering no less.

The directive of the band is clear:
1) Support and fire up the team
2) Entertain and fire up the crowd (this item includes all the Michigan tradition requirements)

One note that may (or may not!) be relevant: The Ohio State band has changed very little over the years (say, 25 years). The Wisconsin band has changed very little over that time frame. Ditto Purdue, and Penn State, and Southern University for that matter. However, the Michigan Marching Band has changed dramatically.

Customers here seem to be saying that they want more volume and maybe more energy or excitement or current relevance. It doesn't matter what the customer knows about how that request is delivered. The customer is always right!

This is a leadership problem. Leadership can change where the band is seated and aimed, and also what they play, how they play it, and style on the field (whatever is needed to satisfy customer requirements).

pjmasi

September 16th, 2009 at 9:04 AM ^

And the leadership has changed so many times in the last 10 years, I've lost track.

Imagine if the football team had changed head coaches that many times. It'd be MSU football pre-Dantonio. Working hard, but directionless.

papker

September 16th, 2009 at 10:09 AM ^

It's not really a fair comparison. The head coaching job at Michigan is the pinnical of a career. For years, the marching band director's position was Associate Director of Bands. It attracted the best and brightest talent, but these guys did Marching Band, all athletic bands, Concert Band and headed up the Youth Band program. Once they had an opportunity to work at Michigan, they used tose skills to be successful Director of Bands and other colleges. Its just not the same thing. I would like to see continuity as well, but if you want to see that, start donating to the Elbel Club so we can get an endowed chair.

chriscamzz

September 16th, 2009 at 10:21 AM ^

I think your point is 100% valid. What it does illustrate, though, is that there isn't the same stability in that position that there used to be, granted, for all the reasons you pointed out. The new guys coming in usually take a year or two to really settle into the job and get things done in their style.

It's not a perfect analogy, but RichRod had a year of disruption when he (dramatically) changed the system. A new director may have their own personal preferences for how the band operates and it may take some time for that to become ingrained in the culture of the band. The fact that turnover is higher now just means that there are more frequent cycles of disruption and less cycles of stability which may (or may not) have an effect on the final product on the field/in the stands.

MGoboe

September 16th, 2009 at 12:27 PM ^

Those who aren't in the know should also realize that the MMB director no longer conducts the Concert Band. Therefore, the MMB job is drastically less desirable now than it was when conducting a concert band full of music majors was part of the job description. (However, the job used to be WAY too much for 1 human to do...)

chriscamzz

September 16th, 2009 at 12:58 PM ^

I lost track of when the conductor duties got consolidated (1996). They didn't replace Dennis Glocke as conductor of the concert band (he left to become Director of Band at Penn State), but rather consolidated the duties with the marching band director. I know they've been separated again, but I haven't followed the concert band director changes as closely as the MMB changes, mostly because I actually know all the guys that have been MMB directors.

Wolverine318

September 16th, 2009 at 10:05 AM ^

Whoever mocked me because I said piccolo trumpets can replace the god damn piccolos can eat me. I am sorry but you can replace the damn piccolo's with an Ab trumpet. My competitive band marched piccolo trumpets while doing a Z-pull at 200+ bpm (our drill writer was Mark Sylvester, former drill designer for the Holy Cadets of Bergen County). Sorry, if I come off as a drum corps snob, but I have a huge problem marching woodwinds. Volume is the least of my issues with woodwinds. So unless you have a valid argument, outside of ad hominem attack, shut up.

MGoboe

September 16th, 2009 at 12:22 PM ^

So do you want a REASON piccolo trumpets won't work or do you want the resume of everyone who agrees it's a ridiculous idea?

Ever seen a woodwind part to The Victors? Think ANY marching brass player on ANY instrument could pull off those trills and 16th notes?

You market yourself as a drum corp snob -- try being a music snob - you know, those people who consider, like, how the music, you know, SOUNDS.