Belien says Robinson to move to the 3 and McGary to the 4
"Rod Beard@detnewsRodBeard
Beilein: Plan is to move Glenn Robinson III to small forward and play two big men."
"Chris Balas @ Balas_Wolverine
Glenn Robinson III will play the 3 and Mitch McGary the 4 next year. They're looking to play bigger - and it's best for the kids. "
Let the line-up and minute split speculation begin!
You're concerned about having to go small because of foul trouble when the alternative is to go small from the beginning? I think GRIII's offensive game is well suited to the 3. He's got a good 3-pt shot and those lobs can come off of back cuts.
McGary will play some 5, GRIII will play some 4.
Maybe not all of the time, maybe not every game. But it's not like they're going to forget how to play the positions that got us to the National Championship.
I don't see a situation where we're playing Max B or some walk-on big man for extended minutes because we can't move McGary or GRIII.
Just like on the positive side, if Irvin is going nuts in a game, I don't think GRIII has to watch from the bench because we don't want to take Irvin out. Just put him in at 4 and bump McGary to 5.
This is a GOOD THING.
It allows these guys to learn and play the positions they're going to play in the NBA
It allows them to give us some size and gets Morgan/Horford get a little more PT.
It ends those rumors of Morgan looking to graduate-transfer elsewhere due to lack of PT.
It looks like Beilein is trading points for rebounds. In the games we lost, we gave up heaps of oReb's. Morgan is sturdy on the glass and guarding opposing bigs. But I absolutely detest his offensive game. It seemed like toward the end of the season he would either turn the ball over or get blocked. JMO doesn't elevate!
My only concern is who the screener will be. McGary is great in that role, with his Clark Kellogg-endorsed hands and Withey-defeating finishing ability. Morgan, not so much.
Morgan's actually been pretty good in pick-and-roll situations. He almost averaged in double figures two years ago when we had Morris at PG, and a large chunk of his points that year came off ball screen action. He doesn't have McGary's overall skill (such as his fadeaway and foul-line jumper) or finishing ability, but he can score this way.
April 19th, 2013 at 10:53 AM ^
McGary was the screener and they stationed Morgan in the short corner (along the baseline half way between the basket and 3 pt line).
2 bigs creates some spacing issues, but if one big has a developed skill set and can pass and shoot, it mitigates those issues.
Notheless, it's pretty safe to say the 2 bigs plan, if carried out most of the game, means we wont be the best offensive team in the country next year (#1 in kenpom adj off eff.)
April 19th, 2013 at 11:54 AM ^
and the #1 defense. That seemed to work out for Louisville pretty well last year.
and that an "i" had left
If Morgan can catch the ball, running two big will be fun to watch.
That lineup will do wonders for the pick and roll...hope Walton is ready
GRIII at 3 is intriguing. It's going to be a matter of him hitting his outside shots. He is such a threat to slash, that a jab step would probably be really effective to get him some space. If not, he can always move back to the 4.
At the 4, I see GRIII's upside as a Dennis Rodman who can shoot better, and without Rodman's drama. I could easily see GRIII getting 20 rebounds in a game if he was asked to make it his #1 priority.
I don't see any similarities between Glenn Robinson III and Dennis Rodman. They're about as similar as pigs and hurricanes.
...dumbass (/s)
they seem more similar than that
I don't know if there are two more disimilar players to compare.
April 18th, 2013 at 10:13 PM ^
No, the move is being made because they expect to have the roster balance and talent distribution to make it work. They didn't have a better option at 4 to start this season, McGary wasn't prepared (injury and conditioning) to play many minutes, let alone PF. Horford's early injury further jammed up any plans.
See previous post. It makes a lot of sense to play GR3 at the 3 and McGary at the 4 from a professional development standpoint. It may have been a huge selling point to keep them both here another year (maybe not...obviously pure speculation).
If Irvin is as good as advertised, he'll get his minutes. The Irvin/Stauskas/LeVert combo allows for a lot of flexibility...one of them may even play point forward under certain circumstances (foul trouble, injury, etc.)
Yes. I have been hoping for a two post offense for a long time. I actually think Horford and Mcgary will start and Morgan will be the first one off the bench to back up the 5. I also like the idea of still playing small for portions of the game with GRlll at the 4.
last year after being a sixth man all year. Irvin not starting doesn't bother me in the least.
...who this affect most is Caris LeVert, not Zak Irvin...
PG: Walton (20) / Albrecht (20)
SG: Stauskas (25) / LeVert (10) / Walton (5)
SF: Robinson III (15) / Irvin (25)
PF: McGary (20) / Robinson III (15) / Horford (5)
C: Morgan (20) / McGary (10) / Horford (10)
--------------------------------------
Robinson III (30)
McGary (30)
Stauskas (25)
Irvin (25)
Walton (25)
Albrecht (20)
Morgan (20)
Horford (15)
LeVert (10)
...Irvin or Stauskas will probably get 30, take 5 minutes from Morgan or Horford.
But because I went by 5's I had to round down.
I don't think Horford plays 15 either. I don't think Morgan plays 20.
But because I made it so every position has 40 minutes, you get "stuck"
Truthfully, you'll steal 5-7 minutes from the bigs and give it to Stauskas, LeVert and Irvin depending on the game and who's playing well.
minutes last year and Stauskas played 30.5 but you are projecting the minutes leader will only play 30 minutes a game? At least you are the first to point out the we will probably have a two point guard lineup for 5-10 minutes a game assuming Walton establishes himself.
That said, like I said above...because I tried to put 40 minutes per position (which we don't do, because we play 3 guards, a SF and a C often) the minutes per position won't actually be 40.
When you take this into account, you'll get more minutes for Stauskas (who's minutes aren't going down), Irvin and LeVert.
I went back and forth, but I was afraid that if I only put 30 minutes at C and PF there would be posters who commented on the math.
If you want a breakdown without locking 40 minutes per position, here's what I think:
April 18th, 2013 at 10:31 PM ^
basketball-challenged brain. So, the 1 is the PG to replace Burke, and the 2 would be someone to replace Hardaway, which looks to be Irvin at this point, then the 3 is someone like Robinson (another guard, or something), the 4 is a power forward, and the 5 is...?
1 - point guard
2 - shooting guard
3 - small forward
4 - power forward
5 - center
We will be a force next year in the paint! I can see back to back Final Fours in our future!
Quick minutes breakdown going under the assumption that the breakdown is similar to last year (i.e. 9 guys averaged more than 8 minutes a game).
PG-Derrick Walton (28) / Spike Albrecht (12)
SG-Nik Stauskas (30) / Zak Irvin (6) / Spike Albrecht (2) / Caris LeVert (2)
SF-Glenn Robinson III (20) / Zak Irvin (10) / Caris LeVert (6)
PF-Mitch McGary (24) / Glenn Robinson III (15) / Jon Horford (1)
C-Jordan Morgan (20) / Mitch McGary (10) / Jon Horford (10)
Totals
Robinson - 35 mpg
McGary - 34 mpg
Stauskas - 30 mpg
Walton - 28 mpg
Morgan - 20 mpg
Irvin - 16 mpg
Albrecht - 14 mpg
Horford - 11 mpg
LeVert - 8 mpg
Deep Bench rounded out with Biefeldt, Donnal, a scholarship guard (3* probably), and a walk-on wing type.
April 18th, 2013 at 10:06 PM ^
The question "why" has been asked frequently here. Is it professional development? Getting minutes to the best players? Depth?
All good answers with, probably, some accuracy. But isn't one of the best reasons to make this move simply the fact that the players on the floor will be most effective in their natural positions? GRIII worked hard playing the 4 all year, but it's not his natural position and there was a lot of stuff you expect from someone with his skill set that he simply didn't do. He rarely had the ball and he almost never drove to the basket--I don't have actual numbers, but my impression is that "more than a shooter" Stauskas actually drove far more than GRIII.
Similarly, McGary is a good player but his game suits the power forward position better. He outplayed Withey in Dallas not by winning a post-up battle but by ballscreens, movement, and energy. When he posted up Withey, or Withey posted him up, Withey won at least 70% of those battles. Which is why Beilein kept Mitch from fighting them.
With those two in their natural spots, their individual production will be better, and the whole team will improve.
postscript: I have no idea how good Walton will be, but if he doesn't catch fire early the way Burke did, is there any chance Beilein spends a few minutes without a PG in the lineup? I'm not sure there's anyone that can carry the ball up properly, but if there is, this could keep Walton and Spike fresh while increasing minutes for all the guys he has on the wing.
April 18th, 2013 at 10:27 PM ^
Yuu heard it here first.
By big ten season Stauskas will be the back up and first guy off the bench behind Irvin and GR3.
No way Irvin is not starting at the 2 by B1G play and that doesn't leave room on the court for Stauskas. I actually think Levert could pass Stauskas for 6th man too.
Levert was getting big boy minutes late in the tourney while Staukas sat. Levert plays better D and get always get his shot off and can even run the offense as the 2 guard. Stauskas just stands in the corner and can't guard his shadow.
2-3 spots will be interesting.
April 18th, 2013 at 10:37 PM ^
I completely agree. Stauskas has a lot of work to do this off-season. LeVert does too but I think in addition to his natural talent edge he's more versatile. Moreover, as you said, I expect Irvin to be the starter which is going to make Caris' defense, ball handling and ability to run the offense a more valuable first off the bench option.
Stauskas was bad at defense, but that's often the case with freshmen. He will likely get better with age, starting next year. He might be the sixth man behind Irvin, but I doubt he'll drop behind LeVert.
April 18th, 2013 at 10:28 PM ^
What happens if Beilein ends up with the same problem he had this season...his best 5 players are a PF, 3 SF/SGs and a PG? And I hope he makes the same decision...go with the lineup that wins.
April 18th, 2013 at 10:50 PM ^
A lineup can look great on paper, but i think you cant make that great of a prediction till you see it on court, also it is a good thing we have all these options.
I think were all underestimating Donnal, this is Johnny B. specaility. Think of his teams at WVU. I think he will suprise some people.
April 18th, 2013 at 11:12 PM ^
Ideal
Walton-28/ Spike 12
Stauskas- 25 Irvin 10 Levert 5
GrIII 20-25 Irvin 10-15 Levert 5-10
Mcgary-20-25 GR3 5-10 Horford/ morgan5-10
Horford 20 Mcgary 10 Morgan 10
April 18th, 2013 at 11:13 PM ^
I'm surprised how many people seem to be writing off Stauskas as losing his spot and losing minutes. He played like a talented freshman last year. There is no reason he can't improve over the summer and come back better. With Hardaway and Burke gone Stauskas is the only guy on the roster who has proven he can get his own shot. Maybe Walton and Irvin, but they aren't on the team yet. Defense was definetly his biggest weakness last year, but that is something he can improve. He will be the starter at the 2 next year.
When it was crunch time Coach B ran with Levert in the tourney. That's why I think Stauskas could be hurt most by these announcements. Levert brings a more diverse skill set at this point and that's saying a lot bc Levert still clearly has room to grow. He was scout team until late last season.
Also you underestimate Irvin. He is better than Stauskas on Day 1. I think he sits initially just out of respect for Stauskas but like Stauskas pushed out Vogrich he will get pushed out of starting spot early.
The question is what does Coach B want off the bench first:
Stauskas - sniper, spread the floor, hit threes, nice passer into low block (McGary to get more looks in O).
Levert - second ball handler, better defense, better rebounding, better slasher.
That's all assuming neither improve. I think Levert puts on weight and works on his 3 ball.
Stauskas wil have to get LOTS better at D, become a playmaker with the ball in his hands(make plays for himself AND others).
all and all a great problem to have. I like how many different types of weapons the team will have at the 2-4 spot. Some bigs, slashers, snipers, all with length, all with 1 yr in system except 5 star Mr. Indiana. Heck Donnal could make noise at the 4 too.
April 18th, 2013 at 11:19 PM ^