Freep to play hardball?
I read this somewhere else - I have no proof. Sounds about right for the Freep, though. Would like to know if anyone with knowledge can confirm. Brian?
"The Free Press is going to FOIA cell phone records (including texts) from any cell phones issued by UM to the coaching staff. This is presumably in an effort to discover any text messages that show coercive action from staff/coaches to players who were not "All in" for UM practices."
September 8th, 2009 at 8:09 PM ^
It's legal. At least they're doing research.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:41 PM ^
Normally you would do the research first and then publish the article. That's how investigative journalism works.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:11 PM ^
I assume they're going to do this far all D1 programs so as not to appear bias, right? Because they're practically the epitome of objective journalism.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:22 PM ^
They have no obligation to do that.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:33 PM ^
Hmmm, can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...
September 8th, 2009 at 9:42 PM ^
The Freep is investigating UM because it's the big local team. If you think they should make similar requests of MSU, fine. But what on earth makes you think that for them to be credible they'd have to investigate all D1 teams? Do you realize how massive an undertaking that would be? It's a totally ridiculous and unreasonable request.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:47 PM ^
No, it's really not. It would be if the Freep didn't have a history of misrepresenting information by working from an intentionally limited pool.
I suppose it's too big of a request if they don't care to have anyone put a tiny speck of stock in any of their articles, but other than that, it's not.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:57 PM ^
That's not a reasonable standard for what qualifies as a credibly researched investigation. That's an ad hominem attack.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:01 PM ^
I'll grant you that, but the point is still true.
It's unreasonable to expect that of anyone, but the Freep HAS shown willingness to go ahead with knowingly incomplete information, in order to support their points.
It's NOT unreasonable to ask them to do extra research at this point, beyond what would be asked of other instiutions, to prove the integrity of their information.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:12 PM ^
I agree it's reasonable to ask them to do more research within reason, but the point with the Rosenberg article was really the transparency of his research, the fact that he misrepresented certain rules, took quotes out of context and left critical distinctions vague.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:52 PM ^
Of course investigating every single D1 program is unreasonable, hence: sarcasm, which I would think most people would've gotten. But as I said below, having a larger sample size than one school wouldn't be at all unreasonable if they really want to be, you know, somewhat objective. Of course they won't though.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:05 PM ^
I'm glad it was sarcastic, but really it wasn't clear to me. The board is in such an anti-Freep frenzy it's hard to separate hyperbole from serious talk. Blazefire, you may have noticed also took your sarcasm seriously and actually agreed(!) with you.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:08 PM ^
Yes, it's hard to tell sometimes, especially when you can't use such things as tone of voice, body language, etc. I guess I just assume sarcasm first since many people on here tend to be sarcastic (myself included).
September 8th, 2009 at 9:34 PM ^
makes no sense and would not be an indicator of partiality.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:50 PM ^
It does make sense if you want to try to put forth an objective article EDIT: or at least a larger sample size than one school. The Freep will have nothing to do with that sort of "old-school" journalism, however, and to your point you're right that it wouldn't make sense if their audience consisted of people who were not UM fans. I do no live in Michigan (anymore) and have never read the Freep other than a few UM article here and there, but from what I have read and from what others around here say it would appear there is quite a bias against UM, or perhaps more specifically, Rodriguez; so I suppose if that is in fact reality that their audience consists of Sparties and others who are not UM fans then yes, you are correct.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:16 PM ^
If there's one thing the Freep does well, it's obtaining and publicizing text messages. So, let's say they find a damning message - the original story was still baseless and the continued witch hunt confirms their malicious agenda. Unless the NCAA is ready to investigate every single program, this still goes nowhere. Man, that antique ship must really be sinking...
September 8th, 2009 at 8:16 PM ^
Really? What the fuck? The Freep needs to go to hell.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:17 PM ^
The problem with this is that unless there's a text that says, "We're pulling your scholarship if you don't come to this workout", there's really nothing that these texts can do. Saying, "You're not going to play if you don't come work out" doesn't make the workout mandatory.
This is more yawnworthy news. If it even is news. Which, right now, it's not.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:17 PM ^
These assholes apparently aren't going to let this go.
Why do private texts to students fall under the FOIA? Isn't student information supposed to be confidential?
Do phone companies actually keep a record of all texts made by their customers?
September 8th, 2009 at 8:21 PM ^
You clearly didn't follow that Kwame Kilpatrick situation, did you? :)
September 8th, 2009 at 9:37 PM ^
Two major differences, one I mentioned that the texts messages in all likely hood no longer exist. The second if they did exist they are with the service provider and not the university and thus not under the umbrella of FOIA. The city had records of Kwame's texts because they were part of civil suit against the city and had been brought there through the power of subpoena.
September 9th, 2009 at 4:17 PM ^
The texts were under court seal. The texts the Freep published were obtained by the Freep by other means, perhaps illegally.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:21 PM ^
I was wondering why it falls under the FOIA myself, but I suppose it is not academic and therefore cannot be confidential student information.
And, Yes, the phone companies do keep their customers text messages on file.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:26 PM ^
Yeah but they have to have some sort of basis for doing a FOIA. For example, I shouldn't be allowed to randomly see your text message records just through a FOIA. I'm not sure how this would be approved without it being an invasion of privacy.
Also, if the coaches were really being sinister, whats to stop them from buying a prepaid phone that nobody can trace and just text away? It certainly would never be linked back to them.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:28 PM ^
Dude, this isn't The Wire...
That said, if they can supply sufficient evidence that M breached established "laws" put in place by a legitimate governing body, and these records would go to prove it, there's no reason this wouldn't be approved.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:07 PM ^
Hey man, according to the Freep it's basically The Wire
Richrod swears at players. Threatens them with death and dismemberment when they don't show up for "workouts". Barwis turning them into RichRod's private army
Failed cocaine deals, threats of death, corruption, agendas, and investigations.
It's totally The Wire.
September 9th, 2009 at 8:10 PM ^
Everybody threatens people with death and dismemberment. Everybody has failed cocaine deals. Not everybody can be the perfect person in the world.
September 9th, 2009 at 8:35 PM ^
Terrelle Pryor
September 8th, 2009 at 8:48 PM ^
Not a lawyer, but FOIA (at least national) does not require laws to be broken or suspicion. It is simply saying that anything that taxpayers are paying for should be subject to review by that tax paying public, with a handful of exceptions. So, if RichRod and staff is paid with State funds, and state FOIA laws are similar to national, taxpayers should have a right to the info.
If this occurs, I only ask that they request the same exact information from all other State funded schools in every state that has similar FOIA laws. If they don't, it truly becomes a witch hunt targeted at one school.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:55 PM ^
Is the football staff paid by state funds? I'm guessing indirectly, but yes.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:06 PM ^
The athletic department is completely autonomous financially. In fact, it effectively subsidizes the university, not the other way around.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:21 PM ^
But still a public institution so likely public records...
September 8th, 2009 at 9:37 PM ^
Don't speculate. Anybody can FOIA records from public institutions, and UM's AD counts.
September 9th, 2009 at 8:17 AM ^
The University is a public institution. Rodriguez et al are employees of said public institution.
September 9th, 2009 at 9:52 AM ^
It is still a division of the University, which is a public entity. It doesn't matter if the taxpayers are literally paying their salary's, the taxpayers own the university that signs their cheques.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:15 PM ^
You would think they are paid with AD funds, same goes for their cell phones. Although didn't Houston Nutt's texts get out at Arkansas a few years ago because of a FOIA?
September 9th, 2009 at 8:18 AM ^
Yes, Nutt's phone records were obtained by a private citizen via FOIA.
September 9th, 2009 at 9:16 AM ^
They were out already because of the "Who send nasty email to Mitch Mustain?" case.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:28 PM ^
Kwame just had bad luck as Skytel uses a different technology that is basically two way paging and they have records of it.
http://www.textually.org/textually/archives/2008/03/019378.htm
"Neither case has anything to do with the average person whose text messages are routinely erased by the wireless phone companies, generally within a few days of being transmitted.
Verizon, Sprint and AT&Tall insist there are no stored volumes of text messages out there. "
So unless the university uses Skytel (anyone that works for Michigan and has a phone please comment) or someone on the staff is being wiretapped or I guess they filed it quick enough, there is no record of text messages outside of the the actual phone and those can be erased. Freep is going to need to keep fishing.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:24 PM ^
But many departments quit funding phones in the downturn, so I don't even known anymore.
September 8th, 2009 at 11:00 PM ^
right, they won't be able to get the content of text messages, they'll just know that one was sent. that said, it'd be awfully suspicious if the timing of the texts repeatedly lined up with the timing of voluntary practices. it wouldn't prove anything of course, and no sanctions would result, but it would cast a cloud in much the same way the original article did.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:21 PM ^
I am so glad that Coach Rod didn't elect to bring Kwame onto the coaching staff, otherwise this may have gotten ugly.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:26 PM ^
Also, y'all shouldn't get in a tizzy about this. This, this, is actual reporting. It does make me laugh, though, that the Freep's apparent only form of reporting for their big stories comes on the back of text messages (if this does end up becoming something).
Listen, if we broke NCAA rules, by all means, punish us. The real contention and anger about this article is that they didn't do any reporting and that we (maybe) didn't break any rules. Now, this doesn't negate the fact that this looks more and more like a witch hunt. But in their eyes, this may be successful if they find something we did wrong. It just would've been nice if they had done such reporting before they released the initial article. Ya know, that reporting thing again.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:27 PM ^
um...link? How can you quote something with no link?
September 8th, 2009 at 8:29 PM ^
Oh yeah, and as I mentioned earlier, this isn't even news yet. No one should get uppity about this.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:38 PM ^
It doesn't matter whether its "news". Generally, when seemingly important information is posted in quotation marks it makes sense to link to it, otherwise you could just be making up the quote.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:32 PM ^
Isn't the athletic department entirely self-sufficient and free of any public funding? If the cell phones come out of that budget, the Freep might find a roadblock in their effort to FOIA non-public information.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:37 PM ^
"Isn't the athletic department entirely self-sufficient and free of any public funding? "
I think that's accurate. So yeah, they wouldn't have any publicly funded cell phones, then, would they?
Also as I mentioned, I'd hope Rich Rod can afford his own cell :)
September 8th, 2009 at 9:38 PM ^
because it's wrong. You guys are in way over your heads.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:47 PM ^
Someone's clearly read How to Win Friends and Influence People.