OT: Ugly situation in Dallas Cowboy player's death about to get even worse
An eyewitness at the crash scene is reporting that the driver Josh Brent had to be coerced into pulling his "friend" from the burning wreck:
"I didn't know Jerry in life. I never heard of him, I didn't know who he was," McWilliams added. "But I want people to understand that Josh Brent is not a hero. I keep hearing reports of how he was there to pull his friend from the fire, but he had to be coerced and pushed and begged and pleaded to get his friend out of the fire. And when he pulled him out, he just left him in the street. He didn't tell him 'Hang in there, help is on the way'. Nothing. He just left him there and I want the magnitude of that to be understood."
This report was made public shortly after the mother of Jerry Brown announced she wanted Josh Brent to sit with her at her son's funeral. I cannot imagine how on earth that could possibly take place now.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/eyewitness-describes-…
December 11th, 2012 at 4:19 PM ^
That's a really, really ugly story, but I wonder if the line at the very end isn't correct. Brent's behavior seems pretty head injury-ish to me (as a non-doctor).
December 11th, 2012 at 4:29 PM ^
or a mixture of utter shock and alcohol. Or a combination of all three.
December 11th, 2012 at 4:29 PM ^
I don't think this is a new development either, since I heard it a few days ago?
Everyone is a loser here, no matter what... Easy as that.
December 11th, 2012 at 4:42 PM ^
Well said.
December 11th, 2012 at 4:41 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 4:48 PM ^
You can definitely be judged for ending up in that situation though.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:04 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 5:12 PM ^
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe the NFL set up a hotline in recent years that any NFL player can call and get a complimentary cab if he's been drinking. I think I read an article about that a couple years ago, but the facts might be a little hazy.
Even if it's not free for NFL players, nobody should be driving drunk, period.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:46 PM ^
It is possible, perhaps likely, that players are wary of using that hotline for fear of by doing so they would be getting their names added to some kind of "list" that the Commissioner's office maintains for the sake of holding leverage over anyone whose name makes it on there.
That doesn't excuse drunk driving, and God knows being arrested and/or killing someone is worse than being put on the "naughty" list to be fined at a later date, but with the climate of intimidation that Roger Goodell has put into play since taking over, it doesn't surprise me that players don't trust the league, its officials, or its services.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:52 PM ^
I have a hard time believing that a guy who calls for a cab because he's been drinking would somehow negatively affect his reputation around the league.
In fact, I might be inclined to think the opposite. If Roger Goodell knows that Player A has called that hotline X number of times, that would indicate to me that he's taking his responsibility seriously to stay off the roads when drunk.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:04 PM ^
The hotline has been run by the NFLPA for a few years in an attempt to convince more players to use it. But yea, I agree with you that it shouldn't have a negative impact regardless.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:58 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 6:19 PM ^
hmmmm, oh yeah, a union. Maybe they might be convinced they have some vested interest in the players health and well-being. They might even find it beneficial to limit the probablility of athletes finding themselves on the front page of the wrong section of the paper.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:19 PM ^
no cab needed. ever. they can turn around in most any bar and get a free ride home in a nanosecond. if it's from a woman, they probably get more than a ride.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:24 PM ^
cost 90 bucks an hour. It's not a big deal if it's the top players but for UDFA, PS players, that's an excessive amount of money. Not saying it's wrong, but something to think about.
December 11th, 2012 at 7:45 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 10:24 PM ^
while you are correct, 95% of humans will choose the "free" route aka driving yourself. The fact of the matter is that these guys belong to a "union" how about their dues actually pay for this service off the top that way its a sunk cost and hopefully one wouldnt think twice about calling the line.
December 12th, 2012 at 9:18 AM ^
not that it makes any difference, but i read that it wasn't 'complimentary', it was $90/hour charged to the player. the nfl just is making sure that they have a cab any time, anywhere that the player needs it. but they still have to pay the $90/hour.
December 11th, 2012 at 4:47 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 4:57 PM ^
I haven't heard a single person refer to him as a hero.
But maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:18 PM ^
A quick ten-page Google search for "Josh Brent" and "hero" returns only results that say that he is not a hero. Most of them are about this report.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:05 PM ^
are also different flavors of "hero". I think most people are capable of determining for themselves where an act falls on their personal heroism scale.
December 11th, 2012 at 4:53 PM ^
If "not wanting to jump back into a flaming wreck you just escaped from" makes you an asshole, well, most everyone is an asshole.
December 11th, 2012 at 4:58 PM ^
Well, I'm not sure that Stacee Williams would have been as capable of pulling an NFL linebacker out of a car wreck as, say, a 300 lb. man who plays football for a living.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:02 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 5:10 PM ^
I have no idea how big or fit or young Stacee Williams is, but I'm NFL linebacker sized...and there are approximately zero females I know who would be capable of pulling me out of a car.
All she's really saying is "He's not a hero" and he didn't try to help the dying passenger without being coerced and prodded.
Nothing in your argument suggests that she's wrong about any of that.
Also, her comments appear to have been made after she learned that Josh Brent was an NFL player and driving drunk. I'm sort of willing to forgive her for making some heated comments in the aftermath.
Hell, there are heated comments over in the "Dennis Norfleet to safety?" post on the front page, and as far as I know, nobody in that thread just burned to death in a fiery crash.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:44 PM ^
Well according to ESPN you are 6'2" and 268 pounds. I would say a little bit bigger than linebacker sized.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13239/brandon-graham
December 11th, 2012 at 5:46 PM ^
Hey, that's about the size of Levon Kirkland...
December 11th, 2012 at 6:17 PM ^
Slightly before my time, but damn that's a big dude.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:17 PM ^
Slightly before my time, but damn that's a big dude.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:14 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 6:16 PM ^
I have no further interest in this conversation. Right now you're mad at a bystander for criticizing a guy who's (allegedly) a drunk driver and (allegedly) guilty of manslaughter.
I am shrugging my shoulders at this.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:26 PM ^
And you make my point: you and I judge the guy for drunkenly committing manslaughter. She (and the OP) judge the guy further for not being 100% after narrowly avoiding his own death.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:20 PM ^
At any rate, apparently Jerry died of blunt force trauma to the head and neck, so the time taken to get him out of the car doesn't seem to have affected the outcome. Hell maybe dragging him out of the car made it worse.
My only point is that the fact that it took a guy who had just been in a rollover a couple minutes to get his head in order and act doesn't affect my opinion on him, and it shouldn't affect yours. He's a bad guy for driving drunk and crashing. He's not a bad guy for getting shook up by a major crash.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:00 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 5:07 PM ^
You don't think you have atleat a little bit of a positive duty in this case? It was clear that he had the ability to pull him out of the wreck, seeing as he did it.Then add on top of that the fact that you caused the situation in the first place. I could accept an argument from a bystander saying "I saw that the car was on fire and didn't want to risk it," but not from the person who caused the situation. I would have no problem condemning him further for not pulling the passenger out.
EDIT: To your last point, "if not going back to save the friend that you put in harms way makes you an asshole..." yes. Yes it does. There are other cases where you may not be directly at fault for the accient where I would back down from that stance. But not here.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:06 PM ^
Now that said, I generally agree that I personally would want to do something to help in that situation. After all, a friend is hurt and I was at fault. Decent people ought to want to help, ASSUMING THEY ARE COHERENT AND RATIONAL. That's a big assumption, and the description sounds like this guy was not. That's partially his fault for being drunk, but to the extent that being injured in a serious car wreck made him irrational, that's something you can't fault.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:23 PM ^
"What was the eyewitness doing to help that lets him pass judgement?"
I don't know, but I can tell you what the eyewitness was NOT doing that lets him pass judgement - he was not drunk driving, crashing his car, and killing his friend. We cannot place an obligation on an innocent bystander to risk their own life in an attempt to save another. The driver's obligation is a different story.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:58 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 6:14 PM ^
If your rule is applied more generally, I'm basically understanding you to say that women should never complain if a guy refuses to lift heavy stuff.
Because, after all, if my girlfriend won't try to move that huge bookcase, then she shouldn't call me lazy for not moving it, either. I will be sure to tell her this the next time she asks me to carry her suitcase or load up some furniture in the back of a truck.
December 11th, 2012 at 6:29 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 11:03 PM ^
Lies!
December 11th, 2012 at 4:55 PM ^
I think the actions that caused the wreck in the first place automatically disqualified Brent from being considered a "hero."
December 11th, 2012 at 5:01 PM ^
The "eyewitness" clearly is way over the top here. I haven't even heard anyone call Brent a hero, all I've heard is people just destroying the guy for what he did. My thing is people die and get others killed every single day in alcohol related incidents, but because this guy plays for the Cowboys (and is an athlete in general) and this happened to another athlete people want him to face the death penalty. (I've actually read people saying this) Remeber Donte Stallworth? He killed a homeless guy while he was drunk? Yeah, he's still playing.
All I can say is be careful when you drive, everyone. Especially if you are driving late, there are people out there who will drive in any state of mind, risking their own life and lives of others. After midnight the rules change - green means slow down, make sure it's clear, then go. Yellow just means stop.
December 11th, 2012 at 5:09 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 5:14 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 5:20 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 5:28 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 5:10 PM ^
December 11th, 2012 at 5:14 PM ^