A Board Divided
So, we are in the cold doldrums of another long summer, so I figured I would spark some conversation by seeing what side of the fence everybody is on. I'll post few debatable topics just to see where the battle lines are drawn...
1. LBJ, NBA MVP and Champion - happy for him or hope his house gets hit by a tank?
2. OSU - Win every game but one, only beat the SEC, or secede from the Union to form a province of Bolivia?
3. Navarre - If we find the Weinke loophole, would you take four more years at his average productivity?
4. Ditka or God, who would win in a fight?
5. Mascot - Giant blue weasel, life sized garden gnome from Brian's post, or does it not matter as long as they hurry the hell up...
6. Now that RDT has been outed, who is the next alter ego to slip up?
7. Ale or lager?
You do realize though that Jordan was 28 when he won his first championship compared to Lebron's 27 years of age? I understand some knocks on Lebron, but others are just stupied and pulling at straws.
Of course, Jordan was drafted at age 21 and needed 7 seasons; LeBron was drafted at age 18 and needed 9. If LeBron had won a championship in 7 seasons he'd still be in Cleveland and people would actually like him. So the difference matters.
You'll notice on this list of the NBA's fifty greatest players of all time that it includes...
...Scottie Pippen.
http://www.nba.com/history/50greatest.html
And while Dwyane Wade might be an NBA star, Chris Bosh will never be mistaken for being on the threshold of one of the NBA's fifty best players. Lebron has a superstar sidekick, but so did MJ.
I think it'll matter how long he's around. This is LBJ's first championship and serious run. Jordan had a long time at the top. If Miami wins a couple more, there won't be much of an argument.
Other way round. If Miami wins a few more, there'll be a pretty legit LBJ-MJ argument. If Miami fades into the distance, nobody will ever think LeBron compares.
Because of history. It's like Babe Ruth (Babe Ruth, the Sulton of Swat, the King of Crash, the Colossus of Clout, BABE RUTH! The Great Bambino. Not the great Bambi), he will always be remembered by most people as the greatest Baseball player to ever play, when he might not even be the best on his team. But history always looks kindly on the past in these cases, and it would be nearly impossible for anyone to surpass the mistique of MJ.
If he wins enough though, he might be put in the same breath (and I do think he is far and away the best player of this generation).
Since a lot of people think he was better than Oscar, Wilt, Kareem, Russell...and if it's "not that long ago", Magic and Bird. Baseball is just weird because the historic nature and stat-centric way it's followed; and that it's heyday was long ago, when they go all the best athletes in the country to play it. Not that Babe Ruth would have been as good an athlete as players today; just that the best baseball players are probably playing other sports today.
Let me know when he gets to 5 or 6 and we can start with the Jordan comparisons.
Everyone is so hot to trot about anointing an heir to Jordan's throne. Kobe is the closest. Had Lebron stuck with Cleveland, and eventually won a title (I'm certain that would have happened), he would have owned Ohio forever. Then he would have been LeGend James. Now, he needs to have the numbers to even come close.
I am not making the argument that Lebron is better then Michael at this point, he has a long way to go to make that happen. But to say that Lebron sucks because it took him 9 years and until the age of 27 to win a Championship? That is completely moronic.
To go back to your point though, you don't think those 3 years at UNC helped MJ become a better player, a better leader, and more championship ready? Of course it did. As far as basketball IQ and maturity, this gave him a leg up. But when it comes to years playing basketball and learning those intangible basketball lessons, I believe years of playing basketball is more strongly correlated to this then years of a pro. College does matter.
To go back to your point though, you don't think those 3 years at UNC helped MJ become a better player, a better leader, and more championship ready?
Obviously. I never said anything to the contrary. But LeBron made his decision to go pro right away. He could've gone to college and gotten the same benefit (and the same benefit of the doubt) but he didn't. They both entered the NBA when they judged themselves to be ready, so LeBron doesn't get a pass here.
and is partically related to the Miami Heat already. I don't think this deserves its' own thread, but I think many people on here will enjoy. Juwan Howard interviewed during the Heat celebration saying this was for the Michigan Fab Five and giving a shout out to Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, Jimmy King, and Ray Jackson. Also included a "We shocked the world" reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbc8sSHGWLw
Can someone embed please? Thanks.
Oh, ale of course.
1. Tank. #witness
2. Win every game except versus us (which will be two weeks in a row starting in 2013)
3. With Denard, Gardner, Shane, and (perhaps) Chance? No thanks, I'll go high-risk, high-reward.
4. No politics or religion.
5. Why can't we just label the drum major as the mascot?
6. If Brian and Seth will let me have access to the login/IP data, I'll be able to confirm some of my suspicions.
7. Anything by Jolly Pumpkin. So, ale.
1. Tank Smash Presented by Vizio. Also, throw in a simultaneous flyover.
2. Secede and secure exclusive provincial marketing rights.
3. The Weinke Loophole is a myth. The future cannot be created in this manner.
4. The promoters.
5. LOL
6. Buzz Killington.
7. Revenue
LeBron is a great player. Jordan was a magician. Not only was he superhuman when he needed to be, but he was also a great leader on the court. I don't care how many rings LeBron gets. There will never be another Jordan.
1. Don't care.
2. Wut?
3. Maybe?
4. Both
5. Gnome.
6. Not entirely sure what this is all about, so I will again say wut?
7. Both.
May I note that only ~Herm and robbyt003 have chosen lager.
1. Yes, Cleveland (and therefore Ohio) is unhappy, so awesome
2. Bolivia, sadness of the state is...awesome
3. Yes, especially with Hoke's recruiting
4. God, Ditka is < average
5. Don't care, whatever gets the kids interested (they will be recurits in like 13 years)
6. :( I loved RDT
7. Lager
1. Happy for him (I guess....) the guy earned it by having one of the most incredible post seasons of all time...so he deserves it. Personally, still think he's a piece of crap human, but oh well...
2. Province of Bolivia....they could use some rusty factories.
3. No, done with and over.
4. Trick question, the greatest trick Ditka and God ever pulled was making the world believe they didn't exist....
5. I refuse to answer. This is America. No damn mascot at Michigan, fergodsakes.
6. I hate to say it, but we're waiting Herm....
7. Ale on the account of IPAs.
1. The decision really turned me against LeBron. I thought he was above that.
2. If I could separate the team from the ugly fans, I would send the fans to Bolivia and have OSU undeated every year until they lose to UM.
3. We can do better now.
4. God, but Ditka would put up a whale of a fight.
5. Neither, I want LOL cats as mascots. Can I haz a Touchdown?
6. The Knowledge
7. Ale, and it's not close. Give me a Two Hearted or Dirty Bastard any day of the week and I'm smiling ear to ear!
1. Fab Five. Plus I liked seeing all those miserable LBJ-haters get bonked.
2. Plague of frogs and locusts, and the Olentangy and Scioto Rivers turned to blood.
3. Sure, if we have a good passblocking OLine for him to play behind.
4. [blank]
5. Emmy the Block M.
6. Brian Cook.
7. Lager!
I hate and I have my own insecurities, but they are not tied together. LeBron is a piece of shit human, which is why I hate. That is a fact.
what exactly makes him a "piece of shit human?"
Seriously.
His greatest sin was leaving his team in an arrogant and immature manner, with a byproduct of millions of dollars going to charity. He didn't kill anyone (ray lewis), rape anyone (kobe), womanize (tiger), cheat (pete rose). But, yea. Piece of shit cuz he's cocky.
1) shit ima be askin him 4 sum change
2) shit i couldnt tell u cuz i dont know
3) come on now! what type of question is dat?
4) i would have 2 say bof
5) im fuckin wit a rock or a pit
6) My mom CARLA
7) i would have 2 go with.............. water
hahahahaha. its been a while
I actually met marques slocum when i was a freshman, i had no idea he was on the team (looking back it was pretty freaking obvious). cool dude. we bonded over dining hall food and being from the south.
who da fuck is dat!
/lock thread you've been fuck lion'ed.
in regards to traveling, that's like saying there's holding on every play in football
Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?
What the hell is this RDT everyone keeps talking about. I don't post/read very often, but usually pick up on things....not so much this time.
User "Roll Damn Tide" who was an Alabama poster here. He was found out to be "WolverineinaBag" as well. At least that's what most believe....
1. LBJ, NBA MVP and Champion - happy for him or hope his house gets hit by a tank?
Happy when his house gets ran over by an M1
2. OSU - Win every game but one, only beat the SEC, or secede from the Union to form a province of Bolivia?
Beat Ohio!
3. Navarre - If we find the Weinke loophole, would you take four more years at his average productivity?
Too slow, he wears bricks instead of cleats...
4. Ditka or God, who would win in a fight?
Chuck Norris
5. Mascot - Giant blue weasel, life sized garden gnome from Brian's post, or does it not matter as long as they hurry the hell up...
A wolverine, a gnome, and a weasel. I want to see races around the field every game, similar to how the MIlwaukee Brewers do things...
s/
6. Now that RDT has been outed, who is the next alter ego to slip up?
We are all figments of everyones imagination, there is no real or alter ego...
7. Ale or lager?
Scotch and Stout please