Tigers Open Thread
The Tigers and White Sox game is underway. Right now, it isn't good for Detroit, with the Tigers going out of the first with nothing. The White Sox have their first two on base, and Dunn is at the plate with no outs. What is going on with the Tigers this year? I thought they would be better than they are.
FULL DISCLOSURE: I am a White Sox fan, growing up as a boy in Chicago. I just thought that the Tigers would be a lot better than the Sox this year, and have been pleasantly surprised that the White Sox are still hanging around. I thought for sure after last year and after the off season that the Tigers would slam Chicago. For the Sox, the fact that Peavy seems to have turned things around, and that Humber is getting it, has made a huge difference. Obviously, Adam Dunn is vastly different from last year. The Sox still don't have a closer, imhe, and the bottom half of the order isn't very good. Konerko is the only one above 300 in batting average. Well, I'll gladly take as many wins as the Sox can get.
GO SOX!
17-18 in this horrible division. Good thing NOBODY questions this.
Gosh, not one of you.
Glad I double-checked before posting. For those who want it, here's a link to a live feed.
And to answer your question, SRK, I think it's a combination of things:
- Aside from our opening series against Boston, it seems like we haven't had two guys get hot on offense at the same time. There's no way Cabrera remains a fringe-.300 batter for the rest of the season.
- Our middle relief has been terrible. Really, aside from Below, Benoit, and Valverde (and he's on the fringe) our whole bullpen has been terrible. Guys like Schlereth, Ballester, and Putkonen have been especially awful.
- Our starting pitching has been inconsistent. But it's starting to come around. Verlander has had one of the best starts to a season of his career. Porcello has been up and down, but I think he'll be fine. Overall, he's pitched deep into the game in all but 2 starts. Scherzer seems to have figured out whatever was ailing him earlier on (though he's doing his best right now to prove that all wrong), Smyly has been a pleasant surprise, and Fister has been solid when he's been healthy.
The only real surprise to me in all of that has been our offense. I think that once guys like Avila, Peralta, and Boesch start producing better (which I think they're capable of), we'll see the offense come into form just fine. Hard to say with the bullpen, but you'd like to see more consistency there.
About pulling ONE of your hottest hitters for a guy whos OBP is significantly lower? That's what we get from James Leyland on a consistent basis. And yet NOBODY asks about it. Done with this toolbag.
About pulling ONE of your hottest hitters for a guy whos OBP is significantly lower? That's what we get from James Leyland on a consistent basis. And yet NOBODY asks about it. Done with this toolbag.
Well, that could have been much worse. Scherzer needs to just put that behind him and go to work now.
They are truly right now, the worst team money can buy. Last night, pulling Smyly out of the game that early baffled me. The lineups have been questionable at best, Lamont keeps costing us runs with his automatic windmill arm, and Scherzer can't control his pitches.
They're managed by people who don't know what they're doing.
Why is Porcello worse every year?
Why is Scherzer?
Why did Granderson SUDDENLY learn how to hit lefties when he went to New York? I'm sorry, I just think the coaching (hitting, pitching coaches especially) are just terrible. WHY IS JEFF JONES STILL AROUND? The guy has been fired twice by the tigers organization.
Tito Francona>>>>Leyland
Leyland without the Tigers is a sub-.500 manager. He is truly awful.
Francona would be nice.....
Leyland has taken three different franchises to the postseason, has won the pennant in both leagues, and has a World Series championship ring. There aren't a lot of guys out there that have done all that.
He's also managed for 21 years and has a career record 2 games over 500. The sheer length of managing is responsible for half of those, as winning 1 championship total with some of the teams he has had is a major underachivement.
Crappy managers don't hang around 21 (!) years at the highest level of baseball. There's a reason the guy keeps drawing paychecks. Two of the franchises he's managed (Pittsburgh and Florida) underwent fire sales while he was there, which left him with glorified AAA rosters. Take away his last couple of years at Pittsburgh and 1998 in Florida (when he was stuck managing hopefully untalented squads) and his career record suddenly looks a lot better.
Umm, what? Here are some of Porcello's stats for you:
2009
- K/9 = 4.69
- BB/9 = 2.74
- HR/9 = 1.21
- BABIP = .271
- LOB% = 75.5%
- GB% = 54.2%
- FIP = 4.77
2010
- K/9 = 4.65
- BB/9 = 2.10
- HR/9 = 1.00
- BABIP = .307
- LOB% = 65.9%
- GB% = 50.3%
- FIP = 4.31
2011
- K/9 = 5.14
- BB/9 = 2.27
- HR/9 = 0.89
- BABIP = .316
- LOB% = 67.4%
- GB% = 51.4%
- FIP = 4.06
2012
- K/9 = 5.18
- BB/9 = 1.94
- HR/9 = 0.89
- BABIP = .309
- LOB% = 68.4%
- GB% = 53.5%
- FIP = 4.55
How's that for regressing every year? Unless I'm seeing this wrong, it looks like he's improved in just about every category. When he came in and did well his rookie year, everybody thought he was going to be amazing. But his ERA was not reflective of his talent. You overreacted to his rookie season and now, somehow, it's Jim Leyland's fault that he's not as good as you hoped he would be. Right.
Oh don't let your statistics and facts get in the way of his blowhard, and dense comments.
This team will be better, they're hitting about .50 points below their average BABIP and they've had some shaky middle relievers. If Marte can comeback sometime soon, i'd think that would help mend the 6th innings woes.
The Indians and White Sox don't have the firepower to run away with this division, only the Tigers have the team that is built for long stretches of solid play.
Say what you will about Smokes, and he arguably blew the game last night, but even on the nights he manages the game well the haters will come out. The 3 hardest jobs in Detroit sports are: Lions QB, Red Wings Goalie, and Tigers Manager. Leyland will always be on the wrong side of the ledger for most bandwagon baseball fans.
/end rant
CANCER STICK is a .500 manager.
Why deny that?
The guy makes CRAZY moves. The Andy Dirks one last night was INDEFENSIBLE.
Do you know who Connie Mack is? He's the manager with the most wins ever. Oh, and his winning percentage was .486.
he did own the team. and he is a distant relative of mine.
Here's Connie circa 1911.
He's also 16th overall in total wins. As the Tigers manager his winning percentage is .532, who cares what his past has been like in Florida and Pittsburgh, he's been more than adequate here. If you argue that point than you also should look at Brady Hoke's career record before coming to Ann Arbor. Point is, Leyland will always have haters even though he's been one of the the best managers the Tigers have had.
Being a .500 career manager in baseball is very different than in, say, the NBA. In baseball, the vast majority of the teams are in that .450 to .550 range. Last year the Tigers ran away with their division with a .586 winning percentage.
When you consider that Leyland's managed Pittsburgh, Florida, Colorado and now Detroit (only one of which could be considered a big-spender), being a .500 career manager isn't bad.
That a player will improve from Age 20 to Age 23. Is that ridiculous? The guy has not improved, and his WHIP is up from his rookie year.
I get crediting Leyland with Smyly or Jackson. Fine.
But Fister was lights out in Seattle (no run support), and Scherzer has not improved since he got here either. The guy is either lights out or a complete gas can. But I never can trust him.
The guy has not improved, and his WHIP is up from his rookie year.
2009 WHIP - 1.34
2010 WHIP - 1.39
2011 WHIP - 1.41
2012 WHIP - 1.39
That does nothing but further back up the stats I showed you. Nevermind the fact that WHIP doesn't mean much anyway. His BABIP was .271 his rookie year. That's quite a bit lower than the average (and even the elite) pitcher has. BABIP is largely out of a pitcher's control. Porcello's BABIP increased from .271 in 2009 to .307 in 2010. Do you know what that means? That means that more balls that were put in play went for hits. Wait, so more balls in play fell for hits... and his WHIP went up .05? INCREDIBLE! You must be onto something here.
He's a very young, very talented arm that already battled back twice in that game from getting hit a little for the first two times this year.
I would have let him pitch the 6th, but i understand the reasoning. If he gets lit up and takes the loss there could be confidence issues. Plus his age means you want to keep his pitch count under control. Burn up innings now and he might be gassed by September. Maybe they noticed a change in his mechanics, maybe his elbow felt a touch sore. You never know.
is playing with no passion or swagger. I truly think Ilitch will make a change if this continues much longer. He has too much invested.
This Tigers team frustrates me to no end but I know it won't last. It's only 35 games into the season. There is a long way to go til October. All they need to do is get in the playoffs and then it's who knows what could happen. They will be there when it matters.
but the Tigers are deadly dull to watch right now.
You almost sit there KNOWING they will do something to lose the game. Be it poor pitching...or poor hitting...or lousy defense. Everyday it seems they have issues with one of those, if not all 3.
I hope they get better (i think they will) because i count on them to get me thru the summer to football season.
Tigers be makin' me sad.
The 2012 Tigers are going to drive me to alcoholism...
How high will Leyland let the pitch count get for Scherzer? He already is at 99, and the game is only in the bottom of the 5th. (Two on, no outs for the Sox. Good for them, more of the same for the Tigers.)
for 5 more runs then take him out, its his awesome decison making
with Leyland but his mismanagement of the bullpen and resting players 30 games into the season is rediculous. Nothing he did last year warrants him getting credit for going to the ALCS, they were 77-0 last year leading after 7 innings which is fricken rediculous and I dont think that was due to Leylands in game decisions. Already we have blown 6-7 of thos games this year. Trade for Polanco and fire the coaching staff, Francona here we come.
its Leylands fault when they lose....and its all the players when they win??
Wonderful logic.
That logic applies to pretty much all sports.
Right back in it! Raburn of all people...
This team has so much promise.
Action Jackson! with a 3 run Homer! This is an epic meltdown for the sox
Now thats not deadly dull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the Sox get to bat 4 more times.
Unless the Tigers continue to score...this aint over.