What about McQueary?
Lots and lots of discussion on the board the past 72 hours over Joe Pa, Penn State's administration and how what people did versus what they should've done. I am troubled frankly, most of all, by what McQueary did NOT do when he witnessed first hand Sandusky assaulting the young boy. I know I'm a father of 4 and hence a bit "kid biased" but can somebody tell me why in the name of God did McQueary not grab a chair and beat the holy hell out of Sandusky when he saw him raping the child???? I honestly believe if I witnessed an old man raping a child in the shower I would stop Sandusky with force enough to hurt him. From what I read in the Grand Jury report that is not even close to what he did and it bothers me.
Please understand I am not excusing Joepa, the AD or the Dean of Finance for their lack of action on what was reported but everything they heard was second or even third hand. But McQueary saw it happening - and I cannot understand for the life of me why he didn't do more. A LOT more.
November 7th, 2011 at 8:51 PM ^
November 7th, 2011 at 8:53 PM ^
how you'd react, but unless/until you're in that situation, it's just internet tough guy bullshit.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:19 PM ^
Different people respond differently to stress. I feel for McQueary to a degree. Should he have responded by stopping the situation...yes...but maybe he isn't wired that way. No one knows until you are in the situation on how you would respond. I would hope that I would bash his head in and take the child away, but hopefully I never have to find out. His career in Happy Valley is over, and his coaching career will take a strong step back bc of someone else attacking a child.
Overall, this just sucks all around
November 7th, 2011 at 9:32 PM ^
Man, I don't know what I would do. I mean, no one actually knows unless in the exact situation. So really, only McQueery among us actually knows what he would have done in the precise situation. But I think I'd probably just make some odd, startled yelp, and maybe yell, but I don't know if I'd be going closer to uhh, what is happening, than I was when I saw it. I might throw something, that's probably it, physically. Unless he started doing something weird like trying to talk to me while not...stopping...yeah, anyway, Christ, this is sick.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:07 AM ^
I think if you saw this occurring, especially when you consider who was involved, I think the shock and horror might cause you to flee wondering what the hell was wrong with the world, rather than attacking the man.
In reality, there is a lot of gesturing and posturing by everyone and their brother about what should have been done and what they would have done. But it's all in hindsight, and we are angry as holy hell about the situation and we want as much blood as possible.
However, real life isn't that clear and obvious. There are those who could have done more, but I think they made honest mistakes. It's sad, but they aren't at fault for the sick allegations. In fact, if they had done more, it's possible that their efforts wouldn't have changed anything. That's the part that drives us crazy, but in reality, we don't know. But we want to know, we want to think this could have been prevented, and it's possible that's not the case.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:17 AM ^
I agree to an extent, but I think the fact that McQueary didn't at least call the police after he had fled is unconscionable. Who doesn't call police after witnessing a child being raped?
November 8th, 2011 at 9:49 AM ^
McCreary was a college QB so probably was big enough to take on a 50+ year old Sandusky.
I also would have beat the s*** out of him and then made sure he went away in cuffs. I certainly would not done nothing seeing him come back on campus with kids after the fact. I would have followed up and asked why he was allowed back on campus with kids. That is practically making everyone who was aware guilty of conspiracy with respect to allowing him around other kids, who may also have been raped. If any kids were raped after McCreary witnessed what he did it is on him. He could have stopped it.
November 8th, 2011 at 11:35 AM ^
He had the physical ability to at least stop the act, regardless of any other circumstances. There some things you cannot walk away from and simply "tell the higher ups". It was not a gang of people, Sandusky was not armed, you put a stop to something this. It does not matter how you do it. Regardless of how confused he felt by the situation or how revolted, man up and do the right thing, the human thing to help a child. I am sure many police officers, fire fighters and members of our military who bravely serve every day would have to wonder what McCreary is made of.
November 8th, 2011 at 9:49 AM ^
fuck you dude...
so, if you stumble upon a grown man sodomizing a defenseless ten year old, would you leave and then call your father ? or would you man up and end it, and defend a child who cannot defend himself? go fuck yourself dude, because if you even infer youd coward out, then you shouldnt be on this earth.
November 7th, 2011 at 8:54 PM ^
I think it's easy to think that's what we would all do....but when you see it is a person who was probably a father figure type to McQueary for the previous 6-7 years of his life, utter shock and disbelief may have overtaken McQueary. I think unless we took a walk in his shoes in that situation, it is impossible to say what any of us would have done.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:18 PM ^
Maybe it's just me but I don't care if that was my own father that I caught. Pure rage would overcome me. Would I be in shock for a few? Sure, but c'mon mang how can you see someone molesting a child and not put an end to it right then and there?
November 8th, 2011 at 9:52 AM ^
its not about rage, or about "shock"... its not about how YOU would feel.... if you don't on the spot, instinctively know to defend the child who cannot defend himself, then go shoot yourself, because you seriously do not deserve to be on this earth. seriously.
it is truly unbelievable how many people are questioning what they'd do in that situation.
November 8th, 2011 at 10:08 AM ^
Gino
I think the reason you see so many people not only questioning how'd they react in the situation but also being critical of me questioning why McQuery did not stomp Sandusky's head in is pretty simple. They would ALSO run and hide and then call daddy for advice and see his response (or more accurately lack of response) as perfectly acceptable and the prudent course to take.
Rest assured these brave souls would have a completely different opinion, I think, if it were one of their loved ones in the shower with that monster.
November 8th, 2011 at 10:26 AM ^
What a self-serving fuck you are.
Good lord.
November 8th, 2011 at 10:44 AM ^
Who? Me? Gino? The mothers of the rape victims? The other people who are repulsed by the lack of action on McQuery's part?
I'm not going to respond and stoop to your level of name calling. I believe we can have a disagreement, even a strong disagreement, without having to go there.
November 8th, 2011 at 11:30 AM ^
Says the guy calling anyone with the ability to understand how decision making in such a situation could be less the rational, a coward.
November 8th, 2011 at 11:47 AM ^
Really? Show me where I called you or any of your apologists cowards? I may have thought it....but i never said it.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:07 PM ^
You're being obtuse. "run and hide and then call daddy", sarcastic use of brave souls etc
November 8th, 2011 at 12:13 PM ^
The "run and hide and call daddy" line is a direct quote from one of the mothers of the victims when describing McQuery. Sorry if her outrage is offensive to you - perhaps she can learn to be more "understanding" of the conflict poor McQuery was placed in like you guys cause today she too doesnt understand why he didnt act.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:20 PM ^
You know what? Fuck off. You are so, what's the word, oh wait, I've got it. Self-serving. You know damn well that her outrage is not offensive to me and you are twisting the point.
You're the man. You are morally superior to everyone. Good job. Fuck off.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:00 PM ^
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/11/the-mystery-of-cowardice
Read this asshole. Seems like a lot more people share my opinion of McQuery's inaction than you'd like.
You apologists truly make me sick. I'm glad i dont share your fears.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:17 PM ^
EVERYONE AGREES HE SHOULD HAVE STOPPED IT. WHAT CAN'T YOU COMPREHEND ABOUT THIS FACT. EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU.
THE ARGUMENT IS THAT YOU KEEP INSISTING THEY DON'T SO YOU CAN PORTRAY YOURSELF AS THE ONE VOICE OF MORALITY IN A DEN ON INIQUITY, AND IT'S BULLSHIT.
November 8th, 2011 at 3:33 PM ^
Yeah, just admit that this thread was started so you could display how totally awesome and morally sound you are (mgrowold), and how you would have totally beaten the shit out of that guy because you are so awesome and morally sound.
This whole thread is one giant circlejerk for the, "I tell you what! If I'd a been there, let me tell you what I'd a done..." types.
November 8th, 2011 at 2:31 PM ^
Then why didn't you use quotes in your original comment if your intent was to quote and not to co-opt the statement for yourself?
November 8th, 2011 at 2:27 PM ^
Hah, wow. That's some 5th level lawyerspeak.
November 8th, 2011 at 11:44 AM ^
winter blue75,Your Joking right?
November 7th, 2011 at 8:56 PM ^
While this Board has a penchant for endless postings over and over on the same topics -- seriously this should have been a response to one of the zillion already-posted things on this subject.
And I can't help but respond to the substance of this wayward post. Just say to yourself: But there for the grace of God....
Who knows why he did or didn't do anything. Who knows what background and baggage and mental strengths and frailties he had, which led him to that moment in his life. We all deal with shock and stress in different ways. He was probably revolted and so utterly shocked, that he couldn't process. From what we've heard he was FRIGHTENED -- he ran to his office, called his father, ran out of the building.
And you want to criticize him? I won't, none of us should. He was in probably the most stressful moment of his life, and however he responded to that stress, it was what it was.
He got clear-headed and went to JoePa the very next day; probably didn't sleep at all that night.
You want to throw him under the bus? Frak you. Like you know. Like you know him, or you know what you'd do. He didn't have four kids. He's not you. You're not him.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:11 PM ^
It doesn't matter who you are or what your baggage is - you see a child being abused in the manner alleged, you stop it period. No thinking about it, calling dad, agonizing over the right thing to do or your relationship with the perpetrator-you stop it using any means necessary. That's it. No excuses, no other bullshit.
November 8th, 2011 at 9:56 AM ^
WFBlue... thank fucking God that there is someone rational here (you). seriously... all of the rest of you here who think for one second that mcqueary "did the right thing", can go die.
any man who is deserving to be a human being, would instinctively stop the harm, immediately upon seeing it. they wouldn't whither away, go home, allowing the sodomizing to continue, and go home and call dad to ask the best thing to do (ie, the best thing to both protect your career and the program, and try to stop a perp).
November 7th, 2011 at 10:17 PM ^
Be deleted.
November 7th, 2011 at 11:29 PM ^
this is a new topic - none of the other threads were about this. By the comments I expect we'll see, it is appropriate.
November 7th, 2011 at 8:57 PM ^
Are either of you fathers? If so I politely call bullshit. If I saw somebody raping a child I would know EXACTLY what to do and that's not "internet toughguy" talk. That's called being a dad.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:05 PM ^
I will admit that if it is my son and someone (forget me) saw someone do that to my kid, the Marine sabres come off the wall and it is likely over, or that's how I would feel anyway. Still, never having been in the situation or (thankfully) never having had the vomitous experience of witnessing it, I couldn't tell you more than what I believe my own gut reaction would be. I will say, that knowing me, I would try to intervene regardless of relation...somehow. Such behavior should not stand ever.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:11 PM ^
My point is that regardless of what Joepa and others in authority should've done once they heard about it, one person SAW it and did very little about it. He told Paterno and seemingly nothing else.
For everyone who wants to excuse his lack of action at the time he saw the rape - how do you possibly excuse his not going to the police afterwards when it was apparent nothing was going to be done about it? How can you possibly condone that behavior and lack of action?
November 7th, 2011 at 9:14 PM ^
after the fact is a different question than why McQueary didn't curbstomp Sandusky when McQueary walked in on the rape. I agree that McQueary should have gone ot the police once it became clear that nothing was being done. My guess is that he was afraid of losing his job, which is not a great excuse.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:27 PM ^
He should have went to the police...much like Paterno...and this is without debate.
But McQueary didn't rape this kid. Lets not treat him as an accompliss. He f'ed up big, but no one knows the tole it has taken on him privately. Hell, professionally he is done when Joe is gone. I don't want to call him a victim in these circumstances since there are true victims who didn't ask for this, but what he is gone and going through isn't deserved either.
November 8th, 2011 at 12:40 AM ^
But I have to agree totally with your POV. Deer in the headlights is not an excuse. If you saw someone falling down would you not help them if they couldn't get up? Would you keep walking? As a father it makes this more than a no brainer, but as a human being if you see a ten year old boy and this is happening to them, your first instinct if you were brought up right would be to help that child by any means neccessary. If you disagree then you are part of a much larger problem. I honestly am ashamed to hear anyone on here make an excuse that we all react differently in that situation. There are only 2 morally right responses to this incident. 1. Helping this child the minute you witness the act taking place. or 2. Run to the nearest phone and call the police while screaming for someone or someones to help you. Anything else is just digusting.
November 7th, 2011 at 10:23 PM ^
It's not "being a dad." It's called being a human being. Still cannot believe why this McQueary guy didn't call 911 right away.
November 7th, 2011 at 11:33 PM ^
Mgrowold, as a father of three, I empathize with your comments. As a father of a 10 year old boy, who curled up next to me on the couch to watch the Bears game tonight, I am shocked and sickened to think, this could have been my boy who was abused. As a father, I would have wanted to see this stop immediately, and be dealt with thoroughly and decisively.
Having said that, I am not sure I would have directly intervened myself. I have been in several situations where I have been tempted to intervene, one actually occuring in a locker room. I have spoken with law enforcement about such scenarios. The correct response is to call 911 immediately, and get law enforcement involved immediately. McCreary failed to do this, and for this, I fault him.
When you interject yourself into a situation, you can put everyone, including yourself, in a position of greater risk. I will never again intervene directly, unless it is clearly a matter of life or death.
November 7th, 2011 at 8:58 PM ^
It one thing to flee, being a scared GA. It's totally another thing to keep quiet for 9 years while even seeing Sandusky on campus, knowing he works with young boys all the time. If I was the new leadership at PSU, he gets fired along with Joe.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:00 PM ^
This is a totally reasonable question. I think we need to know if Paterno/McQueary followed up and if so what they were told. I'm sure Paterno gets asked at his presser tomorrow.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:22 PM ^
How do you see that, report it, then live knowing that for the next 9 years.
Even more so, since he says Sandusky saw him when he came across him raping the victim...
November 7th, 2011 at 8:58 PM ^
I would have only said something and that probably would have made him stop. Then I kick his ass the next day or so. I wouldn't have it in me to strike a naked man, and I'm being completely serious here.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:06 PM ^
a 22 year old seeing a guy twice his age doing that and someone he thought he knew.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:08 PM ^
If this thread isn't post worthy, why did you bother to give your opinion. I'll judge anyone who witnesses a child being raped and runs away. Yeah, because my boss is who should be contacted if I saw something like that. Good thing he "got clear-headed". We wouldn't want him making an irrational decision. Like, making the old guy get off the kid, or contacting the proper authorities. Man, sure am glad he went to sleep and "got clear-headed". Frick you and die in a fire.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:11 PM ^
November 7th, 2011 at 9:16 PM ^
No comrade....MY point was that in all the discussion over Joepa, the administrators and everyone else involved the one person who saw it and could've stopped Sandusky dead in his tracks did almost nothing. And I don't understand why HE isn't getting more attention for his lack of action in stopping Sandusky. He's the one that could've ended his destruction of children within 24 hours of the shower room incident if not actually at the time he witnessed it by simply gong to the Police.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:23 PM ^
November 7th, 2011 at 9:27 PM ^
Yes I am posing a rhetorical question here but one that i think bears discussion. The focus of the media and the court of public opinion so far has been in a lot of areas but has been glaringly absent on the one person who could've done the most to stop Sandusky. And of all the bad actors in this story, McQueary is the one that I believe is the most to blame for allowing Sandusky to keep raping young boys.
November 7th, 2011 at 9:31 PM ^