Six Zero

September 22nd, 2011 at 2:38 PM ^

Kid goes into another situation without a full roster.  Kid gets thrown around, can do nothing productive.  TSIO possibly loses again, and certainly won't look all that good.  Kid now has the media on his back, not to mention the Columbus clinically insane faithful.  Kid now has to take on Sparty, which should be able to pull off the W and might even rough him up a bit.  Kid could even get hurt, but probably not.  THEN by the time Posey and others return, the kid is rattled, mired in frustration, the target of choice criticism nationwide, and, most importantly, suffering from a severe case of self-doubt.

Either way, this is certainly not the ideal situation for a young QB to start his career.  It probably won't go according to that script, but we all know it's gonna get worse before it gets better down there.  And we will love every second of it. 

Joined: 09/05/2008

MGoPoints: 10549

Space Coyote

September 22nd, 2011 at 2:49 PM ^

Hopefully he isn't (or is) just as stupid as Pryor and hopefully not as successful.  This could be sensed about halfway through the Miami game when OSU basically said F it, lets just go through this now like we did with Pryor against USC.

Joined: 06/18/2009

MGoPoints: 38962

UMAmaizinBlue

September 22nd, 2011 at 2:52 PM ^

On a side, semi-related note, I was watching the 1995 UM/Ohio game the other day, and between fantasizing about Biakabatuka and picking my jaw off the floor whenever he did something awesome, I noticed a young Luke Fickell at nose guard for Ohio and laughed at the thought that this young man had NO idea what kind of situation he'd find himself in 15 years later. I almost felt bad for him.

Joined: 09/23/2009

MGoPoints: 36271

ndjames86

September 22nd, 2011 at 3:01 PM ^

decisions going to be looked upon favorably in BuckeyeLand this season. Anybody else catch they clip they were replaying on SiruisXM College Sports of the guy bashing Fickell?

Joined: 09/28/2009

MGoPoints: 221

Farnn

September 22nd, 2011 at 4:57 PM ^

Because he trained under Tressel and Bauserman had 0 turnovers while Miller had 2.  Plus Miller was 0-2 in passing before the last drive when the game was essentially over and Miami was only defending deep.  Not that I think starting Miller is a bad idea, but I just don't know if Fickel really knows what to do as a head coach.  He's never had to make these decisions before, and you could see the uncertainty with regards to the time outs last game.

Joined: 07/07/2008

MGoPoints: 12788

AAK15

September 22nd, 2011 at 3:23 PM ^

Miller is ridiculously injury prone. Played against him for 2 years back in high school before I graduated and he was hurt literally every 4th or 5th week. I would keep an eye on this... and grin widely

Joined: 01/02/2011

MGoPoints: 271

michelin

September 22nd, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^

Smith's last year he was a 5th year senior.

I believe that Henne, started as a Freshman when Smith was in his 4th year, and Henne was a true sophomore (2nd year) when Smith was in his 5th year.

Incidentally, guess where the great Troy Smith is now: he plays for the Omaha Nighthawks.

Henne, all of us know, is the starting qb for the dolphins--and together will fellow um alum Brady--set a record for total passing yards by qbs in a game a week ago Monday.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Smith

 

Joined: 09/22/2009

MGoPoints: 2541

michelin

September 22nd, 2011 at 8:26 PM ^

Todd Boechmann was in his fifth year at OSU when he qb'd OSU vs 4th year Henne. (see link).  Boeckman was both a grey and red shirt, but even if you don't want to count his grey shirt year as a year of school, he would only have the same (4) years as Henne.*  Thus, Henne's senior year is still not an exception to my statement: that OSU during the Tressel years, never beat UM with a QB having fewer school years.

Thanks for you information about Troy Smith.  However, based on the two links below, it appears to me that Smith's last year (as a 5th year senior) was 2006 (not counting the bowl game in 2007).  Henne's last (senior) year was 2007; so in 2006, when he played vs 5th year senior Troy Smith, Henne was a 3rd year player (true junior).  That would mean Smith was two years ahead of Henne.  In any case, even if Smith had been only a year ahead of Henne, that would still be consistent with the assertion in my post:--which I do not think you were disputing.

*Certainly, one might argue that Henne had more game experience--but that is because he started as a true Freshman. Also, to try to count "experience" would be hopelessly complicated, as many QBs play only part of a game or year (indeed, Henne himself was injured severely for the OSU game and either played part or could not play in other games).  In addition, how much "experience" does one get as a backup qb who learns the playbook and/or practices with the team?  Such a qb certainly is more experienced than t true freshman, but how much?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Boeckman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Henne

Joined: 09/22/2009

MGoPoints: 2541

michelin

September 23rd, 2011 at 6:18 PM ^

You raise an issue worth discussing.  However, it is impossibly difficult to measure "experience, as I've noted in a post below (footnote).   Suppose, as you argue, that Henne had 6 months more starting time but Smith had 2 more years on the team.  Did Smith obtain absolutely no advantage during his two extra years--spent attending team meetings, learning strategy and plays, practicing with the team in the extra summers, falls and springs?   Did he obtain no advantage through two more years of maturing and completing school, enabling him to have a massively reduced course load (as a 5th yr player)?  If these years were worth something to Smith, then how much?  Do they make up for Henne's extra six months as a starter?  Remember, when Henne came in, the whole offense had to rely on only the few plays that he had learned; whereas, Smith knew the playbook from Day 1.  

Though we could go on endlessly arguing about the meaning of "experience",  the argument also wouldn't matter to my main point:   OSU fans often claimed that the superior coaching of Tressel and the talent of the team totally explained Tressel's coaching record vs. UM.  Yet, according to an objective, measurable statistic, there appeared to be a major imbalance in the seniority of QBs on the teams. 

Moreover, even though it is easy to find a case or two in which, arguably, a more subjective impression of "experience" might seem to favor UM, the imbalance favoring OSU QBs would still exist IMO.  

To disprove this conclusion, you would need to produce an alternative, objective measure of experience, then show that OSU was not advantaged by the "experience" of its QBs.  In addition, you could ltry to show that  OSU won under Tressel  just because it had more talented QBs, as proven by later, Pro performance.   But clearly, the opposite seems true.  Smith is playing for the Omaha Nighthawks, while Henne has been for several yrs, a starting NFL QB.

 

Joined: 09/22/2009

MGoPoints: 2541

michelin

September 23rd, 2011 at 1:11 PM ^

Sheridan (technically) was a RS Fresh, whereas Pryor was a True Freshman.  Of course, as you note, Pryor was the #1 rated recruit in the nation and Sheridan was a walk on; so, it would be clear who really had the QB advantage here.

In addition, note that 2 qbs played for each team in that game, and OSU's other QB was in his 6th year (boechman): whereas, UMs other qb was a true freshman (feagan)).  So, if we averaged the years of school for OSU, we would have (1+6)/2= 3.5 and for UM (2+1)= 1.5.  According to this measure, OSU had an average two extra QB "years".

But even if we forget all that, my original assertion  would still stand with one slight amendment:

"OSU never beat UM during JT's tenure when a scholarship UM QB had more years in school.

Joined: 09/22/2009

MGoPoints: 2541

michelin

September 23rd, 2011 at 1:27 PM ^

Sheridan (technically) was a RS Fresh, whereas Pryor was a True Freshman.  Of course, as you note, Pryor was the #1 rated recruit in the nation and Sheridan was a walk on; so, it would be clear who really had the QB advantage here.

In addition, note that 2 qbs played for each team in that game, and OSU's other QB was in his 6th year (boechman): whereas, UMs other qb was a true freshman (feagan)).  So, if we averaged the years of school for OSU, we would have (1+6)/2= 3.5 and for UM (2+1)= 1.5.  According to this measure, OSU had an average two extra QB "years".

This game, moreover, was particularly interesting in that OSU had an overwhelming advantage in years of experience at many other non-QB positions (during RRs first year, when Mallet Arrington, Manningham and many others left UM prematurely).

But even if we forget all that, my original assertion  would still stand with one slight amendment:

"OSU never beat UM during JT's tenure when a scholarship UM QB had more years in school.

Joined: 09/22/2009

MGoPoints: 2541

Trebor

September 23rd, 2011 at 12:51 PM ^

Well, that's not exactly true unless you want to mold your definition to fit your case.

Pryor as a true freshman beat Threet as a redshirt freshman. Boeckman as a redshirt junior beat true senior Henne. So if you're ignoring redshirts, Boeckman was in a lower class than Henne (yes, Boeckman greyshirted, but that doesn't impact your eligibility). You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 4573

michelin

September 23rd, 2011 at 2:26 PM ^

While your recollection is not entirely accurate, it does point out an important issue I'd overlooked.   Actually, it was not Threet but Sheridan (nonscholarship RS Fresh) and Feagan (True Fresh) who played for UM vs Pryor (true Fresh).  Also, Boechman (6th yr Sr) played part of that game for OSU.  Below, you will see arguments about who had the QB advantage.

Arguments notwithstanding, I do acknowlege your important point.   Still, I can simply amend my statement slightly, to say that during JTs years, OSU never beat a scholarship* UM QB with more years of experience.  

That's still a pretty striking statement, given the Buckeyes claim that their run was due to superior talent and coaching.   Perhaps it was related to those, but we would have to add: "also cheating and increased years of experience (which raises the related question about how Tressel got his players to stay for 5th and 6th years).

 

*meaning someone recruited to UM with a scholarship offer.

Joined: 09/22/2009

MGoPoints: 2541

bronxblue

September 22nd, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^

OSU should be able to beat CU, but from what I've read Miller has done very little to distinguish himself in practice.  So if the goal is to see how the kid can handle game-time, my guess is that the answer will be "not so good."  And that will lead to more pain down the line, both for him and OSU. 

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171035

Darth Wolverine

September 22nd, 2011 at 4:39 PM ^

It was only a matter of time before Bauserman (as badly as he has played) was thrown under the bus a la Todd Boekmann (spelling?) in 2008. When you have a kid like Braxton, you don't keep him on the bench.

Joined: 11/30/2009

MGoPoints: 2008