August 3rd, 2011 at 5:27 PM ^

A fantastic piece...read it yesterday at work, gave me goosebumps. The cojones that the SEALS and any service member for that matter is truly astounding.

Also, props to the author. Incredibly well written, no idea where he got his info from but, as has been said before, reads like a movie.


August 3rd, 2011 at 8:08 PM ^

I thought it was clear in sum but, to clarify, I mean to say that the topic is so far off-topic that it is not appropriate for the Board.  But I think you already knew that, given the extent of your experience on the Board.


no joke its hoke

August 3rd, 2011 at 6:40 PM ^

Boy that makes u proud to be a American!! I wear my support our troops wrist bands everyday not just for my cousin stationed in Afganistan but for all troops every where.


August 3rd, 2011 at 7:40 PM ^

I read that New Yorker story yesterday and it was very good. The operation was outstanding, with the ultimate result. I am amazed by the deadly efficiency of these soldiers, in the most uncertain and lethal circumstances. I read a story about the sniper teams that isolate on the mountain peaks in Afghanistan for days/weeks, with their families at home proud but tentatively hoping for a safe return. The courage, dedication and sacrifices by these Americans are incredible.

On the other issue, there are significant data, including inarguable facts, and accompanied by human testimony by credible witnesses and hard documentation from a variety of intelligence, credible source, that should make most reasonable people inquisitive about the dark corners of government. The real power brokers that that shun the concepts of transparency and accuracy in its 'disclosures' to the media and citizenry; the military/industry power dynamic. I bet most anyone on this blog that did the research would agree with UMich4Life that the government's official narrative is derelict and refutable in key areas. The manipulative nature of government; countless examples, from the Tuskegee experiments (fairly recent history), to the denial of extraterrestrial interface (Read the Disclosure Project, author S. Greer, M.D.), to the blanketed reneging on forced treaties with the Native Americans, to the government/media connections intended to manipulate the American people by presenting false information. No, the government would never do anything shady that hurt its own people /s. Okay I'm done, sorry if I pissed anyone off. Back to sports...


August 3rd, 2011 at 8:21 PM ^

If you understand just how vast the universe is, and how it is extremely likely that our first radio transmissions have not yet even reached another world that is habitable, much less harbors sentient life, you can pretty much rule out humans having any contact with alien species.  It is insane to assume that earth has been visited by alien species unless said alien species can travel faster than the speed of light, which is currently believed to be impossible. 

In short, there is no reason to believe any claims by anyone that humans have had any contact whatsoever with alien species. 


August 3rd, 2011 at 8:41 PM ^

Wow!  That sure shows the true power of a closed mind.  Even our own physicists speak of the potential to bend space and possibly travel through stargates (wormholes).  Not to mention inter-dimensional, are you so sure the laws of physics are the same there?  You have a flat earth mentality on THIS issue.  Do you really think we have all the laws of physics figured out? Your no way travel faster than light comment  assumes that space travel has to happen in a linear way.  In any era in human history most of the common assumptions are later proven incorrect.  What, so now that we have "science" the same isn't true?  Look what we've done technologically in the last 100 years.  From the airplane to the moon in under 50 years.  Where will we be in 10,000 years if we don't kill ourselves?  You mention the universal infinite possibility, well what about a race that's a million years ahead of us technologically?  Open up just a bit, not saying you have to believe everything you hear.  You honestly wouldn't even listen to what our astronauts would say about ET?  Who says the few can't control the many.  It's a piece of cake if a population has such closed mindset as yourself.  Jeesh!


August 3rd, 2011 at 9:05 PM ^

There's a difference between close-mindedness and rational thought.  Even Stephen Hawking says that it is unlikely that intelligent alien life exists within 100 light years.  If our radio waves haven't reached them, why would they come here?  The universe is filled with billions of galaxies all containing billions of solar systems, and a very low percentage of that are habitable.  It is hard enough to even locate planets, much less tell if they are habitable.  If they are habitable, chances are they don't harbor intelligent life anyway.  Why would aliens spend the resources to visit earth if they had no evidence life existed here?  It doesn't matter if they can travel through wormholes like you mentioned.  Sure, it may be possible, but they would have no idea that earth harbored life anyway.  The chances of them stumbling upon us are astronomically low (pun intended).

Furthermore, if there has been contact with alien species, why are people in the government the only ones that know about it?  Civilians are searching for alien signals all the time, and haven't found any.

You say I'm close-minded, but you offer nothing in the way of proof of your claims that aliens have contacted us and that they are covering it up.  I, for one, will base my reasoning on the FACTS that I have, rather than the ignorant and ludicrous notion that aliens are in contact with our government without our knowledge.

My mind is open.  Sure, it's POSSIBLE that we've had contact with aliens.  I'm fairly certain they aliens exist somewhere in the universe.  But until I have seen any convincing argument that we've had contact with them, I will presume that we will not contact any intelligent life forms in our lifetime.  Call it a flat-earth mentality, I call it reason.  You probably believed all of Fahrenheit 911 too.


August 3rd, 2011 at 9:39 PM ^

Cheap shot on Fahrenheit 911, that documentary was junk!  It's fair & smart to have a healthy amount of skepticism but to close off possibility is a huge mistake.  

At least you did agree it's POSSIBLE, so credit to you there.  There are people outside of government claiming to have had contact with ET.  What about the millions of people who have had abduction experiences?  I'm not saying they're all true, that would be ridiculous but is everyone full of shit?  What about the movie they made (can't remember the name) based on a true story in TX of a man abducted and witnessed by his friends.  They went to the police and were called crazy.  A week later he shows up naked and shaken beyond belief.  They all passed lie detectors. There was the case in the 1880's of a crashed ship and recovered aliens.  They gave the alien a Christian burial and placed a headstone there that looked like a saucer shaped UFO.  This was reported on the front page of the town's newspaper.  The grave still exists but someone has now removed the headstone.   NOT saying this is definitive proof of anything, but there are people saying things.  We just dismiss them, rightfully or not.  

As to evidence (anecdotal) take a look at the legends of every indigenous culture on earth.  They all talk about Sky Gods coming to earth in "blazing chariots" and  "flying wheels" giving knowledge and civilization to humanity.  Maybe they've been here all along, maybe they have something to do with us being here.  Are they the missing link that Darwinists can't seem to find?  It's a fascinating story when investigated with an open mind.  Once again, I'm not saying this is PROOF, but it will make you question things if investigated properly.  The Aryan Vedas are another great source of evidence, their texts are literally filled with references to advanced beings and travel to different worlds in spacecraft, and their interaction with ancient humanity.  

Look to the world's founding civilization of Sumeria, which shot up out of nowhere at a level far more advanced that one would expect with gradual cultural evolution.  It appeared out of nowhere and denigrated thereafter.  They spoke of the Annunaki coming from space and setting up civilization and seeding the royal bloodlines.  Read of Epic of Gilgamesh.  They also knew of all the planets in our solar system and their relative sizes.  How could they of known of Pluto before we apparently rediscovered it in the 70's (or so)?  They clearly stated they were given the knowledge.  

If interested in some evidence read:  The 12th Planet by Zacharia Sitchen, & The Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple.  Alien Agenda by Jim Marrs is another one.   Great reads that at a minimum will make you seriously question things.  

Damn, I just wrote a diary.  Sorry!  I'm checking out of this thread, nice debating these subjects with you folks.  Cheers!


August 4th, 2011 at 12:02 AM ^

Glad you have a degree is physics, hope that's working out for you.  Yeah, I've read Sagan, and?  Haven't you at least thought that these high profile establishment scientists might just know something they're not telling us.  Maybe they CAN'T tell us everything they know or believe or else their careers will be destroyed by the establishment.  For every mainstream genius scientist, there's a genius on the other side of the fence advocating the opposing view.  What about Tesla & Reich? The control of information throughout the history of this planet is quite clear.  Are we naive enough to think this isn't happening today?  Read Carl Sagan's The Dragons of Eden, there's some seriously cryptic info in there for those willing to read between the lines.  Sagan knows far more than he openly discusses, that's the cost of being an establishment figurehead.  You can't go everywhere the trail of evidence leads to, at least not publicly.  


August 4th, 2011 at 3:08 PM ^

Working out pretty well for me actually. Thank you very much. I love it when people who read pop physics talk out of their ass about wormholes, blackholes, and string theory just because they read a brief history of time. Come back to me after you read and studied the mathematics behind Einstein's theory of general relativity and tell me if 99% of the nonsense you are ranting about is possible. 

If you want to read on established science then read the research journals. Start with the proceedings of the national academy of sciences-USA, Science, and Nature. These are the highest impact journals in this country. After that go to the field specific journals: physical review D, journal of astrophysics, Journal of cosmology. Stay away from the pop media and wikipedia.

I trust in the peer review process. It has worked since the time of Newton and Lebiniz. The moment we start listening to non peer reviewed sources is the moment we start letting faux science in, aka Intelligent design (the name is the biggest oxymoron in christianity, there is nothing intelligent about ID at all). Established scientists like Stephen Hawking utilize peer review to contribute to the academic community. If anything researchers publish too often in order to increase their citation numbers or in fear of getting scooped for funding reasons. I know I should have waited to publish a few times, but my research lab has an established competitor at the University of California-Berkeley. We had to get a our results out first before we were scooped. You seem to underestimating the competiveness of research science. 

I am a big of fan of science fiction as the next nerd, especially the tv show Fringe. However, I recognize boths parts of the word science fiction. What is more possible at this moment are some of the nanotechnology we see in movies. The majority of optics technology seen in Minority Report is already available for the public. The invisibilty cloacks from Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are being developed by researchers at Columbia University and Duke University. Traveling through a worm hole, from a materials point of view is next to impossible. First off the manifold for a worm hole requires a blackhole and a whitehole (where light is expelled). It also requires traversing the blackhole without going through the singularity. 

It seems to be your issue, is parsing the difference between pop science and actual published research. Stick to peer reviewed research and you will be fine. There is a reason I hate talking to people without backgrounds in physics about cosmology and astrophysics that have read Sagan, Hawking, and Brian Greene. There are some deep theoretical concepts in their writings that require a basic education in the mathematics behind quantum mechanics, general relativity, thermal, and statistical physics. 


August 5th, 2011 at 11:28 AM ^

As a business grad, I never had a chance(read: took the time) to study any physics or related sciences while in school, but reading your posts in this thread has been really interesting. I always enjoy learning from people that have an extensive knowledge/background in fields I know very little about.

I know you tend to catch a lot of shit around here sometimes, so I just wanted to give you a pat on the back for this one. Kudos!


August 3rd, 2011 at 8:06 PM ^

Tests on Tuskegee decades ago does not mean the USG is willing to crash planes into buildings for...uh, er, what is the supposed gain? Seriously wrecking our economy?  Yeah, that makes sense. The USG is all about doing things to destroy our economy. Sheer brilliance.

.The fact is that those who want to believe in conspiracies are ignorant, paranoid, and maybe a bit mentally ill. The Nazis fed--and many extremist groups still feed--off of the paranoia that creates these "theories".

50 millio died in part because millions believed nonsensical conspiracy theories. The "Stab-in-the-Back"  and the infamous anti-Semitic theories that were abundant in Europe was the fuel that propelled the Nazi Party. If you REALLY care about human rights and social justice, you'll stay away from idiotic theories and focus on the verifiable facts.

Yes, our nation's history is filled with government duplicity, malfeasance, and cruelty. But that does mean that  what happened in the past is happening today. You have to critically analyze each situation in its own time.  To understand why 9-11 happen you have to understand our foreign policy(especially in the Middle East), Islam and Islamic extremism, and the mindset of the USG in terms of "homeland defense" at the time of the attacks.

By all means, question government. Democracy needs that. But do so in a logical, rational manner that is based on a need for knowledge and not a lust for confirmation of your prejudices.



August 3rd, 2011 at 8:12 PM ^

There's a classic case of doublethink.  You mention the Nazi's, but how many Germans were sounding the alarms to the citizenry about the Nazi takeover and plans for world domination? These people must've been, "ignorant, paranoid, and maybe a bit mentally ill."  The same goes with the Russians during the communist conspiracy too. The masses of the German & Russian people shared your dismissive view.  How did that turn out for them and the rest of us?

M - Flightsci

August 3rd, 2011 at 8:21 PM ^

Found it interesting that the majority of the team were carrying H&K MP7s, while the sole holdout carried an M4-style (Mk18 MOD 0?) and ended up making the kill shot.  This, in contrast to most reports saying they all carried HK416s.


August 4th, 2011 at 3:34 PM ^

There were lots of conflicting reports when it came down to the details like the equipment they used. 

It is confirmed that we killed him in case anyone in this thread thinks that was created by our government. 


August 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 PM ^

@Sal-quattro....I"m not irrational, so please rethink that. I don't prefer the word 'conspiracy' because it is so misused. I have not asserted anything about 911 other than the the government's narrative is corrupt. On extraterrestrials, we have at least two NASA astronauts who have testified as to the existence of intelligent life in craft observed during space missions. I suppose those individuals are irrational as well. Trained ad educated government military specialists and observers after all, trusted to operate with precision some of the most difficult tasks asked of them (similar to the heroes in the New Yorker article). Former Deputy Director of FAA, Former head of the British Defense Ministry, the Vatican's own theologian, US Generals with stars, and countless others who have put their testimony in written and videotaped formats might take exception to 'irrational' accusations. I would not have responded again if not referred to as 'irrational,' which is strikingly similar to the cliched response of the narrow minded narcissist who is confronted with something he doesn't like to hear. For you to refer to my alleged predjudices is so patently absurd that it barely warrants comment. 


August 3rd, 2011 at 9:32 PM ^

And I was not talking about aliens. I do believe that there is other life in the universe.

What I do object to is people claiming something is "corrupt" without corroborating evidence to support that assertion. Discrepancies do not equate corruption.

I can just as easily claim that you are corrupt. That you are part of a conspiracy to sow confusion among Americans. History tells us that such tactics have been used in the past. So why not now?

I hate conspiracies because they have caused a great deal of misery. Stalin murdered countless beings because of his obsession with conspiracies. The Nazis were fueled by a belief in  certain conspiracies.  My antipathy towards conspiracy theories are as a result intense.

There is a real danger in slapping together disparate facts into a narrative without incontrovertible evidence to support the thesis. A key question any person aspiring to issue a "theory" is whether said theory could hold up in a court of law or rigorous scientific experiment.



August 3rd, 2011 at 10:25 PM ^

A conspiracy is merely two or more people plotting to carry out an illegal act/action.  The term "conspiracy theory" is a perversion of the true meaning (curious to know when this term was coined and by whom).  Nonetheless, governments have versions of conspiracies while individuals have their own versions.  It's simply a matter of what verison makes sense.  Do I think governments are totally forthcoming with information?  Absolutely not!  Do I think individuals have all the answers after examining an "event"?  Nope.


An illegal action by individuals, groups, etc. is nothing out of the ordinary.  Are  there conspiracy theories, which are completely out of whack?  Absolutely.  Are there conspiracy theories, which may have credence?  Absolutely. 


Examining history it would be foolish to conclude there are no "conspiracies".  Powerful people have a tendency to manipulate the masses (unfortunate result of human nature e.g., sacrifice your first born so it will rain).  This begs the question:  Will there EVER be enough evidence to prove one side or another?  Probably not.

You mentioned the Germans and Russians spreading to what accounts as falsehoods.  Don't you think your government is spreading falsehoods, which you might interpret as the truth? 

Don't be so quick to dismiss rationale conversation you deem a "conspiracy".  There's a lot of information I've read the last few years--not read by most of the populace--confirming there's more than meets the eye.  Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley and/or The Anglo-American Establishment by Carroll Quigley is a good start (Bill Clinton's mentor).  I was quite amused when in the preface he tells you flat out this is what I know and this is how I procured this information.  Good stuff.






August 4th, 2011 at 12:47 AM ^

For example, Watergate. There are many of those type of conspiracies. What I am talking about is the 9-11/Pearl Harbor nonsense. Countries get attacked and it rarely involves treacherous conduct by the leaders of the attacked nation.


I think Americans have taken the Walls of Water defense for granted for so long that they have a hard time grasping the idea that someone from another continent can come over here and attck us. We are European, Asian, African, or Middle Eastern. We--meaning non-Native Americans--have not experienced an invasion in 200 years and that one involved armies of regiment and brigade size.


August 4th, 2011 at 4:28 AM ^

Agree with most everything you said, but your math was off just a little. The War Of 1812 well it’s title kind of give’s it away, close but not over 200 years ago. I won’t even get into the Native American Wars or our Civil War.  In1845 we had that little thing with Mexico. We had that whole Pancho Villa flare up with the battle of Columbus in 1916. Then Pearle Harbor that’s kind of the date that will live in infamy, so we have had a few bad things happen on US soil in the last 200 years. Also I don’t recall most Americans feeling as if the water kept us safe from the Soviet Union's ICBMs.


August 3rd, 2011 at 9:33 PM ^

On extraterrestrials, we have at least two NASA astronauts who have testified as to the existence of intelligent life in craft observed during space missions. I suppose those individuals are irrational as well.

CanI see these statements?  What were the conditions of these observations?  What was observed?  Did little green men give a peace sign or did they see a flash of light?  Were the astronauts in position to gain noteriety from false statements (the answer is assuredly "yes").  Do the astronauts have proof?  Why is there no independent proof?  It's not like there are not thousands of public astronomers with their lenses fixed on the stars and our spacecrafts.



August 4th, 2011 at 8:37 AM ^

but but but peer review and publishing empirical data is a part of the establishment </sarcasm> 

Good luck running a research lab without publishing your findings. Startup funds only last for at most two to three years without external funding. 

All of these conspiracy theories just piss me off. Sure there are some government stories I don't buy such as the JFK assasination, which violates basic Newtonian mechanics. However, the others such as Roswell, Area 51, and 9/11 are not based in reality or science. 

I am right with you. 

Blue in Yarmouth

August 5th, 2011 at 1:23 PM ^

that if those extraterrestrials had come to earth and all they saw were you, Umichfan4life and Chet....they would leave under the assumption that no intellegent life existed on this planet...j/k. 

Seriously, I disagree with what you are saying but both you and Umich4life seem like intellegent people (not chet though...he is just creepy). I find it hard to believe that intellegent people could get so caught up in these conspiracy theories...


August 3rd, 2011 at 10:03 PM ^

A decent article with information fed by whom?


Any way,  what we need to know is do we know this Seal?


The next month, Brian, who has the all-American look of a high-school quarterback, moved into an unmarked office on the first floor of the C.I.A.’s printing plant, in Langley, Virginia. Brian covered the walls of the office with topographical maps and satellite images of the Abbottabad compound. He and half a dozen JSOC officers were formally attached to the Pakistan/Afghanistan department of the C.I.A.’s Counterterrorism Center, but in practice they operated on their own. A senior counterterrorism official who visited the JSOC redoubt described it as an enclave of unusual secrecy and discretion. “Everything they were working on was closely held,” the official said.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle#ixzz1U1K2XQah 


August 3rd, 2011 at 10:07 PM ^

I do not remember which government official said this but years ago during one of the countless hearings on UFO's an Air Force General said something to the effect of:

"If aliens are indeed a higher life form and more intellegent and advanced than us why do they chose to usually reveal themselves to drunken people on country roads at 3:00am in the morning?"

Tin foil hat brigade....commence firing!


August 3rd, 2011 at 10:36 PM ^

When it comes to Aliens I take a completely neutral approach.


1.  Could there be ETs?  Well, billions of planets in a galaxy, billions of galaxies?  Sure.

2.  Government have them locked up in Area 51?  Maybe.  Some people say yes, some say no (purported government officials).  Why would they lie?  Do they want attention?  Do they want to publish a book to make money?  Who the hell knows!?

3.  I did find it quite odd a former high ranking member of the Canadian government said there's definitely ETs.


I'm torn.  I'd be an idiot to dismiss either claim especially by high ranking officials (what's motivating them to lie or truly disclose the truth?).

As of now, there's no clear evidence to say ETs are real.  However, the possibility definitely exists.  Again, if you're a math whiz you'd be foolish to completely rule out the possibility.


August 4th, 2011 at 3:13 PM ^

If you're a math whiz you know that the possibility is so miniscule that it may as well be zero.

Yes there are billions of stars.  But we can't travel at the speed of light.  It is not possible.  There shear amount of time it would take ETs to reach Earth means that it is unlikely there's ever been any ET contact with Earth.

If they were close enough, we'd know.  If they're too far away, we cannot reach them and it's unlikely they can reach us (they can't travel at the speed of light either...).

The math says it's almost impossible unless they are close.