Sam Webb says "26 in the Class"
Just finished listening to the Recruiting Roundup on WTKA, and Sam says the coaches are telling recruits there will be 26 in this class.
It was an extended segment that affirms many of the things we already knew and has some new tidbits including basketball prospects. Once it becomes a podcast it's well worth a listen.
Did he divulge who the other 10 are going to be? That would be excellent information and relevant to my interests.
:big-grin:
He did not lay out the entire 10 possible spots, but he did address specific questions from a few callers which resulted in his stating that he feels UM is in "very good shape for" or outright "leads for" the following:
Ondre Pipkens
Chris Wormley
Adolphus Washington (and I would assume by extension, Dwayne Stanford)
Jarrod Wilson
***Giggity***
is most likely out, or at least not as likely as the other 3. Aziz still in the mix, didn't mention Day. But he did make it seem as though those 3 (Wormley, Pipkens, Washington) would finish up DL recruiting, if they were in the class. All of it qualified, however, by his "this is just my opinion."
i just want to know what his gut feels!
/s
Hey guys, remember when we couldn't wait for our defense to take the field? Wormley, Pipkens, Washington... YES PLEASE.
Potential front 7 in 2013-2016 (using 2012 class only):
Washington (#2 DE) -- Shittu (#6DT) -- Pipkens (#16DT) -- Wormley (#13 DE)
Ringer (#9MLB) -- Ross (#2 MLB) -- Jenkins-Stone (#3 MLB)
[Ojemudia (#21 DE/OLB, #24DE Strobel, Bolden (#26 OLB) also worth mentioning]
Actually, the players Sam mentioned were in response to specific questions from callers. The 3 DL mentioned because a caller asked about DL recruits and Wilson was listed because Sam was specifically asked about Jarrod.
Sam wasn't asked about OL recruits so he did not mention them. No worries, Diamond will be blue. Raback it!
You are quite the recruiting expert! Are you another of the "INsiderzz" that we are so blessed with these days?
Washington and Pipkens just made me go from 6 to midnight. As an old "Get Off my Lawn linebacker" this would be huge for the future.
Holy Jesus! Good news.
What did he say about the basketball prospects? Please something good about Jankovic...
Once WTKA went to the new format I've been unable to listen to the "podcast", I still have not filled the void with actual work though.
As have I, even with multiple browsers. Anybody else having prolonged issues?
I have e-mailed then a number of times about trying to get the podcasts-def something on there end.
I can't get the podcasts on their website, but if you use "Google Reader" and search for wtka, you can listen to all the podcasts.
I still find it hard to believe that UM will get to 26. That will require a LOT of attrition mostly in the form of transfers which would put us "in the red" re: APR.
counts against APR. Medical Hardships (a la Mike Williams), unrenewed 5th years (likely a la a couple of the current redshirt juniors, sad to say), don't count against APS, and kids who leave while academically eligible either don't count or count less.
I'm more concerned about whether Michigan would resort to SEC tactics to make the numbers work. Lord I hope not.
Yeah, I was aware that non-renewed 5th years did not impact the APR, but I believe UM currently has 18 spots available which would require 8 more spots to come open. I don't expect to see more than 3 of the RS Juniors not be asked back, so I would think UM would need 5 transfers (not going to try to predict Medicals) to get to "the number".
I think you are making the wrong assumption when you say "mostly in the form of transfers". Why do you not assume that it will mostly be in the form of unrenewed fifth years?
I just think the depth situation is too thin at most spots to afford the coaches the option of not bringing back the majority of the 2011 RS Juniors. I know most people on this board frown on speculating about guys not coming back, so I will only say that I would be surprised to see the staff use the "unrenew" option with more than 3 players. That would require 5 transfers to get to the requisite 8 spots needed for 26.
that not renewing a 5th year seniors scholarship only opens up spots for one class then you'll reinforce that idea. If Hoke takes 26 this year and all the attrition comes from 5th year seniors we will only have around 11 scholarships for the 2013 class. If the attrition the coaches are planning on comes from redshirt freshmen and sophomores then we'll have 18 or 19 scholarships for the 2013 class and a few extra for 2014 as well. Besides, if you take all the 5th year seniors out of the lineup and replace them with underclassmen it would hurt the team.
here are the guys who could have fifths (not counting walkons & sorry for the poor formatting):
terrance robinson (probably won't get renewed)
jt floyd (maybe)
roundtree (gets renewed)
mike cox (maybe)
floyd simmons (probably won't get renewed)
kenny demens (gets renewed)
jordan kovacs (gets renewed)
ricky barnum (gets renewed)
elliot mealer (probably won't get renewed)
rhocko khoury (probably gets renewed)
patrick omahmeh (gets renewed)
george morales (doesn't get renewed)
brandon moore (tough to say)
that's four who won't get renewed and three maybes. that's seven total. if we have 18 now that gets us to 25. of course my guesses could be wrong.
But I don't think Floyd Simmons and George Morales are scholarship players right now.
Simmons is a walk on as is Morales (he is on an academic scholarship IIRC), so those guys are not even counted against the 85 scholarship limit.
Mealer is a guy who hasn't seen the field but UM will be extremely thin on the DL in 2012, so I am not sure the staff can afford to not bring him back. The same applies to Brandon Moore at TE. Khoury will definitely get renewed as he is the heir apparent to Molk at center in 2012.
The only guys who I think are realistic possibilities for not being brought back are: TRob (hasn't been able to make the transition from HS QB to WR), Cox (adequate depth at RB) and Floyd (adequate depth, although inexperienced, at CB).
Aplogies to those who don't like discussing guys not being asked back. I am NOT saying that I want any of these players to be "let go" merely giving my opinion on the guys who are in a position where the staff might see them as, for lack of a better word, expendable.
Football players can't get "academic scholarships." If Morales is on scholarship at all, then he counts against the limit of 85. Otherwise, schools would just hand out "academic scholarships" to kids who happen to be good at sports.
so a kid who made it to U of M on an academic scholarship, if he decideds to try out for the team as a walk on and makes it, he then counts for the 85 even though in all probability he will never see the field? that sucks, that would be a reason for guys with academic schollies to never make the cut or if they want they have to drop their schollie and then pay thier own way the ret of their time here
it is possible, albiet unlikely, for a kid to have an academic scholarship and not count towards the 85. IIRC from the NCAA rule book the kid would have to walk-on to the team after a full year at school. I.E. had Kovacs been on full academic his academic scholarship wouldn't have counted since he had no part of the team his first year on campus. This is rather rare as most of the kids that do walk-on try to walk-on as freshman and end up on the practice squad etc but in the rare situation that a player walks-on as a sophmore after having a full year of academic scholarship under his belt (while meeting the requirements for said scholarlship obviously) he can keep that scholarsip without counting towards the 85.
But, like I said, it's extremely rare.
It was my understanding that academic scholarships also count against the 85 limit.
Edit: Magnus beat me.
I do think that academic and athletic scholarships should be treated differently.
Academic scholarships probably require the grades to be higher than the athletic scholarship, so they just don't both with Academic scholarships.
That's a big can of worms to open. Can you imagine the Andy Katzenmoyer Memorial Academic Scholarship?
OTOH the NCAA could do something where they set up minimums for academic scholarships. If a kid finishes HS in the top 5-10% and keeps a 3.5 in college maybe there'd be a case for not counting them towards the cap.
It would seem Robinson, Cox, and Moore are more likely. Floyd is interesting situation: wasn't his rehab going slower than expected in spring so maybe coaches think he might not be able to play in the future and get a medical. Mealer being an OL probably would be tough to not renew since the depth is so poor. The same could be said about Moore though. RB is pretty full, and Cox would need to emerge this year to stay.
It just is worrisome that the coaches expect a 26 class. I can see a few of our smaller LBs leaving and maybe a few other young RR recruits who might not fit the new offensive and defensive schemes. I wonder if there are kids who don't want to be with the program still, but haven't made it official yet. As is, 5ish is the number of transfers to get us to 26.
One thing to keep in mind with Mealer is that he's one of four redshirt junior guards right now (Barnum, Omameh, Khoury, Mealer). It wouldn't be a bad idea to keep him around for depth, and he could certainly find a place if, say, Khoury wins the starting center job in 2012. But if Mealer gets passed on the depth chart by Bryant and/or Posada, then that fifth year becomes less likely.
There's also the possibility that Omameh could bump out to RT once Huyge graduates, and if Khoury slides to OC (which I expect), then that could leave Barnum and Mealer as the starting guards.
So...what I'm trying to say is: Lots of stuff can happen between now and February.
god I hope they keep Omameh at OG. He moves so well, its a real treat watching him pull and take out 2 or 3 second level defenders.
with Hokes 2011 linemen redsharting we'll have 2 or 3 walkon linemen in the depth chart this year. RR took only 2 O-linemen in 09 and a whopping 1 in 2010 I believe. We'll need them all.
Given all we have witnessed with attritition, decommitments, failure to qualify, and so on in the last few years (and before then too, I just wasn't paying attention then), I am not at all worried if the coaches say they want 26 commits.
we still have crazy depth on defense with this class. Combine the 2011 freshmen and 2012 projected class and Hoke has taken 6 Corners, 3 Safeties, 8 or 9 linebackers (depending on where you count Ojemudia), 7 to 9 DEs (depending again on where Ojemudia and also Godin end up) and 1 or maybe 2 DTs. Add them to the team and we will have 7 DTs, 10 DEs, and 14 Linebackers for 2012. If you throw the game-day 2-deep roster out the window and go with a 4-deep roster we still have 2 DE's sitting around and 2 linebackers and 1 corner too many next year. Not to mention the 8 running backs and 8 Receivers and 5 TEs.
WR depth is going to look very thin after this season. Assuming Stonum's eligibility is finished after this season, our WR depth chart looks like this:
Roundtree, Stokes, J. Robinson, Jackson, Gallon, T. Robinson, and Drew Dileo.
Ricardo Miller is an HB/TE apparently now and maybe could be a WR again but who knows. Justice Hayes has been mentioned as a potential WR or pass-catching RB, but he wouldn't fit the mold of an outside WR.
With these 7 WRs, I would guess Robinson won't get renewed and Gallon might not fit the offensive and decide to transfer. I am also suspicious of this because the Spring Depth Chart had Drew Dileo ahead of him. That leaves us with 5 WR plus any kids we sign in the 2012 recruiting class. My suspicion is the coaches will probably phase out the slot receiver or at least diminish its role after this season to the point where Dileo is the only one playing it. Additionally, Roundtree and Stokes graduate after the 2012 season, leaving us with Jackson, J. Robinson, and Dileo plus any 2012 either redshirt freshman or sophomore receivers and any 2013 freshman recruits. I understand WR, like RB, can contribute earlier and more easily than all other positions, but unless we get elite/guaranteed talent Gardner could be throwing to a very weak and inexperienced (depends on development of Jackson and Robinson) WR crew. As such I can't understand why we aren't pursuing more WR's, since Burbridge doesn't seem like he will qualify and Stanford being the only talented WR we are pursuing/have room for.
But I could easily see him not getting renewed. I'm not sure how well he fits into the idea of playing both safety spots and his limited athleticism means that the younger guys could at least make the gap small enough.
I can't see it. He's played in too many games to not have the scholarship renewed. He's paid his dues.
I don't think he'll be back.
Another possibility is players not returning for a fifth year, which I am nearly positive does not negatively affect the APR score.
Actually, I think if a student transfers between academic years, it doesn't count against the APR.
There are nine redshirt juniors by my count. I would guess about four (not guessing who) don't get a fifth year and with let's say about four transfers and the 18 spots that are currently available we get 26.
problem with that is we can't count on four transfers. i don't see how we get to 26. i'm not saying he's lying. just that i can't figure it out.
There is always the chance that somebody blows up and has a great season and decides to take off for the NFL as well. That would give us another Schollie
I don't foresee anyone having the type of season or talent to leave early for the NFL.
Roundtree will probably be hurt by the new system, isn't very big, and isn't very fast.
The leading candidates for the RB job are too young (Hopkins, Rawls) or completely unproven (Cox).
Lewan will only be a redshirt sophomore.
I guess Omameh might be an option to blow up and have a good season, but he doesn't seem like he's particuarly anxious to move on immediately.
Denard's not good enough.
Roh's not good enough.
The linebackers probably aren't good enough, although Demens might turn into a tackling machine if Mattison can get him to channel Ray Lewis...
All the defensive backs are too young or too . . . not good.
Possibilities to leave early: Omameh and Demens. That's about it.
No one thought Darius Morris was going to go pro a year ago either - Things can change quickly.
But yeah - it's not real likely.
talking about kickign guys off the team? That's what your all talking about, isn't it? This is so SEC. Why the hell would a senior in college at the University of Michigan, that arguably isn't playing much, but has nearly enough credits to get a degree from the university, transfer?
Come on guys.