Scouting: OSU vs PSU game notes

Scouting: OSU vs PSU game notes

Submitted by SFBayAreaBlue on November 24th, 2011 at 11:00 AM

Ed-Seth: Bump.

Talented BUT . . .

So I've watched about 7 of Ohio's games, (Brady Hoke has only watched 4, he clearly doesn't "Get It".  I mean what's the point of the countdown clock if you're not doing something every day to beat Ohio?  Doesn't that include watching ALL of their games? /sarcasm) and the team has lots of talent, as you would expect.  BUT...

Most of it is inexperienced, and the experienced parts of it are having trouble getting on the same page.  It's one thing for your QB to be young and dumb, it's another for your senior laden O-line to not be getting to their blocking assignments or your two upperclassmen running backs doing their impression of the keystone cops when you put them in the wildcat.  Those things are on the coaches, and it's been pretty clear for awhile that these coaches are on their way out.  (Regardless of what lies Urban is spinning)

The video above is pretty typical.  Shazier is stepping in for team captain Sweat.  He's got loads of talent, but if you look carefully, you'll see that a lot of the plays he's making are downfield (when they're not running right at him) because he's slow to react and diagnose.  Once he get's going, he's got a lot of speed to get there, and he likes to hit, but not very much form on the tackle because it seems like he's more interested in making a big hit. 

When I watch this edition of OSU, I see lots of playmakers, but I don't see a cohesive team. 

OSU on O

The Speed Option

The two plays I worry about from Braxton Miller are the QB lead draw and the speed option.  He's also dangerous when he scrambles, but I feel like our DL can be disciplined enough to keep him in the pocket.  I've already focused on his scrambling and the lead draws in the previous scouting reports, so this time I'm focusing on the speed option, which they ran much better this game, and ran more often. 


They like to run out of the pistol, and they'll run it to either the weak side or the strong side depending on what the defense does.  But they do prefer running to their right, which is behind Shugarts.  PSU shows a cover 2, so there's a numbers advantage to the left side. 


I kinda think PSU is a little bit miss aligned for this formation, but it seems like they had a CB blitz called on the weakside.  The option motion just goes away from it and those two guys are not going to be a factor in the play.


It's just zone blocking and this is one of the plays where the O-line does a good job of scraping to the 2nd level. 


Miller looked much better this game at taking the hole that is in front of him.  But from a scouting standpoint, he almost never pitches.  So it kind of seems like a waste of a player.  They had one play where they did the power lead, which I would be even more concerned with.  


So now that they've hurt PSU with the base play, it's time for the companion playaction. PSU had 8 men in the box for a lot of the 1st quarter, but backed off a bit after Miller hit a couple of passes. Here they've only got 7 in the box. 


The option motion starts to the right, but then Miller jabs his foot in the ground and gets depth to throw.  The key to reading this play is that the O-Line is clearly in pass blocking mode. The backpeddaling uncovered guard is a dead giveaway. 


PSU does a great job of rushing with discipline, no one is over-running Miller, and they get a free rusher coming up the middle. 


Miller will usually make the first man miss, but because of the spread out pocket and controlled rush by the D-line, he's got no place to go. 


[Ed-Seth: take the jump for the much more.]

Why do you hate Ohio State?

Why do you hate Ohio State?

Submitted by a2_electricboogaloo on November 23rd, 2011 at 6:54 PM

"Oh how I hate Ohio State"

It's a phrase I often hear tossed around this time of year, nicely summarizing the animosity felt between the two institutions.  We've all know the history...

The battles between Bo and Woody,

the fiercly fought games,

the great victories

and the agonizing defeats.

Along with the long history behind it, The Game often has an intense personal importance for fans.  But why do you hate Ohio State? Is there any instance that you can (Hoke) point to and say "This is the moment where I went from disliking That School in Ohio to hating them"? Or, is it a culmination of years of cheering for Michigan that have built up a steady distaste for that School down south?

For me, my dislike for Ohio elevated itself in 2005, and transformed into emnity in 2006.  I was a sophomore in high school during Michigan's great 2006 campaign.  I had been a big Michigan fan for my whole life, but I was still young and not as invested in the rivalry as I am now.  The hype for the Michigan-Ohio game that year was huge.  I was watching ESPN non-stop for days, absorbing every bit of information on The Game of The Century that I could.  Then, the unthinkable occured.  Bo, the hero of the Maize and Blue faithful and the patron saint of Michigan football, passed away.  It was heartbreaking.  Despite the fact I was too young to have seen a game by him I still looked up to him, he was a man who displayed every quality that (to use a much maligned cliché) a Michigan Man should, and thus he was a personal hero of mine.

The hype surrounding the game along with Bo's death put an immense importance in my mind.  We had to win it.  We had to win it for Bo.  We had to win it because Ohio State had beaten us two years in a row (a streak, which now seems gloomily quaint).  We had to win it to play for the national championship.

Unforetunately, in sports not everything goes your way (even for Michigan fans), and we ended up losing a close game.  I was angry at everything: Troy Smith, Ted Ginn Jr., the turf, the refs, even Shawn Crable.  How could we lose?  This was Michigan! We had such a great season, everything seemed to work in our favor until then.  In school I had to face numerous jeers from my Sparty classmates and looks of gloom from my fellow Wolverines, and I knew why.  Ohio State.  It was their fault.  It was at that time that my dislike for that southern school crystallized into the hate that so many of us feel.  And I began to hate Ohio State.

So here we are, five years later, facing a battered Ohio State team.  Michigan, on the other hand, is resurgant with our best record since that fateful 2006 season.  I cannot help but think gleefully of the great oppertunity that we have to exact revenge on Ohio State.

So as we approach this most anticipated of annual meetings, I wanted to hear the rest of the MGoUsers stories.  Why do you hate Ohio State?  And what does this rivalry mean to you?

[Note:  I know this is long post for a Board, and the mods can move it over to the diaries section if they see fit, but I put it on the board because I wanted to a discussion going, and I thought this would be the best way to start that.] 

Scouting: OSU vs Purdue game notes

Scouting: OSU vs Purdue game notes

Submitted by SFBayAreaBlue on November 23rd, 2011 at 10:20 AM

[ed: bump]

Know your enemy

Not much time this week, but I wanted to put up some plays from the OSU games, Neb game wrap will come out during the down time before the bowl game.  Win or lose vs TSIO, revisiting the beatdown will be something fun to do in a week or so. 

Unbalanced I-Form

OSU used a lot of unbalanced sets against Purdue, so our CB's have to be ready for it and talk to the LB's so that we can get properly aligned. 


On this play, the boilers are in man coverage so when the TE flops, the OLB goes with him. This means the the DE no longer has contain so both he and the DT on that side shift down a gap. The OLB needs to be aware that his man is now ineligible to go downfield, so he doesn't have any coverage responsibilities, or he's got backs coming out of the backfield. 


Purdue is betting against Miller's passing game and has 8 in the box, 9 if you count that CB who is kind of playing center field on the backside. The two receivers are man'd up by the CB and FS


OSU continues to have problems identifying who to block with their zone scheme.  Both the split end and the LG completely whiff leaving the two frontside LB's unblocked. 


There is a danger of a playaction rollout on this play.  If that safety is so far off of the split end, there's a lot of room for him to do a post deep cross, so it's important for the backside DE to keep contain and respect Miller on a rollout. 


With the missed block, this is an easy TFL for purdue, but their frontside defenders have also beaten their blockers since they maintained outside leverage and the LB forced the RB to bounce. 


On this play we've got the same formation, but it's flipped.  Again, Purdue is selling out against the run.  They're showing 9 in the box as that CB is faking a blitz, but he steps back and is in man coverage with the split end.  Again, the TE is inelligible, so guy #5 up there has contain on the strong side and guy #1 has contain on the weakside. 


Again, there's a real danger for playaction on that post or crossing route.  The SAM backer has to get into a pass drop if he reads pass blocking from the linemen.  This play turns into a lead draw, so he's okay, but he's in a tough position because he has to help in coverage and watch for the cutback once he sees that the action is going weakside. Fortunately for Purude, the DE beats his block and the FB fails to pick him up. 


So this results in another TFL, but if that SAM evacuates his area too quickly, there's going to be a huge cutback lane.  

[ed: time to jump]

Scouting OSU vs. Neb game notes

Scouting OSU vs. Neb game notes

Submitted by SFBayAreaBlue on November 18th, 2011 at 12:29 AM

Programming note: Next week will be pretty busy with thanksgiving break and all, so I'm gonna go ahead and put up all my OSU stuff this week.  The Nebraska game wrap might be a week late too, especially if we don't win.  

Old Scouting Report is Old

There are just way too many red and white teams in this league now.  

I had watched this game when it happened and had written up some notes and was planning to post it after the MSU game, but then I spent the week cursing at inanimate objects and hoping MSU's random bands of roving thugs would target Gholston.  

There's been a lot of personnel changes since then so I've thrown out the old notes and started from scratch.  

Both teams were coming off loses, Nebraska had just been blown out by Wisconsin thanks to a handful of Martinez interceptions and OSU had been blitzed to death by sparty. You can see the effect of both those games on some of the early playcalling in this one.

OSU on offense

No Dan Herron, and Shugarts hadn't gotten hurt yet.  The offense was all about Hall and Stonebrunner and Miller's legs until he got hurt. 

Miller is a scrambler

Like I said in the QB comparisons, Miller is more of a natural scrambler rather than an option runner. 


On this play, the left side of the Nebraska D-line is going to stunt  to get pressure on third down.


There's a missed holding call, but whatever.  The DT gets around and tries an outside speedrush against Shugarts


This is a mistake against Miller.  You want to keep him in front of you and don't open up big lanes like this.  As soon as he feels the end rushers go past him, his first instinct is to scramble upfield. If you rush under control, he'll scramble laterally and can be coralled for a sack.


MSU had a lot of success the previous week by  timing the snap and sending blitzers up the A gap. Nebraska tried it early, but didn't really get there because their timing wasn't as good.  After this play they didn't really blitz much until Bauserman was in the game. 


This is a 6 man blitz with one of the linebackers dropping into coverage.


There's a little bit of a twist going on with the right DE, but this was a called QB lead draw all the way. The blitzer gets blocked by the RB and Miller jabs his back foot and is off into the secondary. 


Without any LBs on that side and the secondary playing man coverage, this turned into a big run for MIller.


This play shows just how quickly Miller will bail on a play.  It's just a flare to hall at the top of the screen, but the Nebraska rusher gets a good bull rush.  


When the defender jumps, Braxton decides he's seen enough and pulls down the ball.


Instead of looking for another target, he tucks the ball and runs. 

Hyde's TD

Hyde got a lot of carries in the early part of the season when both Hall and Herron were doing their NCAA penance. That's dropped off considerably since Herron came back.  He's got good straight line speed, especially for being a larger back, but his vision isn't very good.  He's like Stephen Hopkins but with more speed. He still gets some duty on kickoffs, but mostly as the lead blocker for Hall.


You can see OSU's commitment to zone blocking on this play.  It looks like a lead play because of the FB, but Hyde's route on the handoff indicates that he's free to pick whatever hole opens up.  At the snap, all the motion is to the left.  The Nebraska D-Line responds by moving with the slanting linemen. Miller does a reverse pivot. 


But Hyde's aiming poing is not following Boren, the FB, instead he's aiming for the center of the line and bending back against the grain.  For some reason, nebraska has a DB playing backside contain, and the Will linebacker has been fooled by Boren's path. 


That DB doesn't understand "run fits" so he wasn't flowing the the D-Line and there's a huge gap between him and the DE that Hyde thanks him very much for.  The weakside LB has over run the play and can't get back to make an arm tackle.  Once Hyde gets past those two, he's pretty much untouched all the way to the endzone.

Throwback to Stonebrunner

With Corey Brown out and no one sure what Devier Posey will do, the RB's and Stonebrunner will be the focus of the passing game. This throwback screen should look familiar to Michigan fans, with the exception of the TE getting the ball instead of Vincent Smith. 


Miller is going to roll out to the right while the O-line shows pass blocking. 


Stonebrunner does an excellent job of selling the block and the OLB is completely caught flatfooted.


Stonebrunner comes off of contact and opens up for the pass, it's the center that gets the OLB and the other interior linemen are heading downfield


The blocking is setup well and Stonebrunner has enough speed for an easy 30+ yard TD

Nebraska on offense

Nebraska does a lot of different things on offense.  They have the spread/zone read stuff, the power running game, and also the veer option offense.  Burkehead will even get back in the shotgun to run some wildcat, probably because he's better at READING on the zone read plays than Martinez. 


After taking a lot heat for the interceptions against Wisconsin, you got the feeling that he started out the game a little gunshy against TSIO.


That's his passing chart with about 4 minutes to go in the first half.  Nothing deep or risky, and a double digit deficit to show for his 100% completion percentage.  So Nebraska gets the ball realizing they've got to pass deep to soften up the defense.


This is Martinez trying to throw a deep ball.  


And this is the result.  That receiver is kinda open.  I mean, yes, he's got 4 guys around him, but none within a 5 yard radius.  Nebraska fans understand our pain when it comes to armpunts.


Where Martinez is realy dangerous is when he gets to accelerate straight ahead. This is a midline option keeper even though it looks like an outside zone read.  You can tell by the pulling guard who goes off tackle.  I think the sideline tells Martinez before the play whether or not to keep the ball on most plays.  That would explain a lot of his "bad reads" and it makes sense that Bo Pelini would be a control freak (see below).


Burkehead's fake holds the contain man.  The pulling lineman takes out the LB and the rest of the O-line is getting a good push up the middle. 


This is the kind of run that Martinez loves.  He's not the kind of guy that will cut back across the entire field, but he's very good at reading the blocks in front of him and making quick cuts without losing any speed.  

Inverted T series

The way you design an offense is that you have a series of plays that work together or are out of the same formation.  Sometimes during the game you have to scrap a series if the first couple plays don't work.  But if the first play works for a big gainer, you can expect the defense to adjust and that opens up the companion plays. 


Nebraska stumbled across such an opportunity in the middle of the 3rd quarter with this Inverted T formation.  Some people call this a Diamond, but with the QB in the shotgun it looks more like a "T" to me.  But the stumpy part is away from the LOS so I call it inverted. Here's what the standard T form looks like. 


This is just a power sweep option.  The odd thing is that Burkehead has a longer ways to go to get to his block, but he's a fast guy, so it's not a problem.  The neat thing about this formation is that you can envision all kinds of counters and double option plays where the person in #2's position can pitch it to Burkehead or handoff to the the other HB coming back on the counter.  


OSU is overreacting the motion and the whole right side of the defense is flowing.  Ironically, the backside of the defense isn't reacting enough and the result is a gaping hole down the middle of the field. 


I don't the think DE ever actually saw the ball because he keeps running with #2 even after Martinez zooms past him. 


Against a normal QB, the safety and LB should have been able to stop this for a large gainer, but because they reacted slowly and because Martinez is already up to full speed, he blows by them like they're standing still. 


From the endzone shot you can see just how wide open that running lane was. 


A little later, they come back to the same formation, but this time the give is called.  It doesn't work as well because the ball is on the hash and they're running into the sideline.  But the point is to see how the defense has adjusted.  The weakside linebacker is way closer to the play this time and #7 Howard is up in bump and run to take on the blocking in case there's a counter or reverse coming.  


The DE is completely befuddled by this play.  He's nowhere near the mesh point so he can't help on a Martinez keep.  He's pointing out Burkehead to .....uh.... And he's not quick enough to get #2. 


Again the backside has been completely sealed off, and Martinez woulda had plenty of room for a big gain if not enough for a TD like before.  But I'm getting more convinced that he's not actually allowed to "read" the play. As it is, this play gets about 10 yards which coulda been a lot more if they hadn't run into the sideline. 


A little later comes the payoff.  They've got bump and run on the short side and they give them the same backfield motion. 


But if the LB's and Safeties had been reading the O-line better, they'd have seen this was a pass. 


Martinez drops a couple steps to give his receiver time to get open.


And the safeties are both dead.  It's interesting that they run the same route with both WR, this shows a kind of lack of sophistication in the passing game.  And it's only a 2 man route. But both WR had gotten a step on the DB's and this play get's Nebraska back within one TD.


He's not the fastest guy, but he's a solid football player.  Martinez is probably more dangerous, but you've got to stop Burkehead first to slow down this offense. 


This is an inside zone that should look pretty familiar to michigan fans.  the H-back is coming across to either block the DE or go out in a pass route.  There's also some bubblesceen motion with the slot receiver. 


The DE is crashing hard and the H-back completely misses him.  Martinez either missed the read, or it was a give all the way called by the sideline. .


If Martinez had kept it, there was a lot of open space once he cleared the DE. The lead blocker would have taken out the safety, 54 is taking to strong of an angle, and the other DB is too concerned with the bubble to have stopped Taylor.  Instead #94 gets the TFL on Burkehead since #93 had gotten good penetration and Burkehead had to stop his feet.


On the game tying TD, Burkehead showed a nice jumpcut. (If you're not sure what a jumpcut is, here's a nice example of Miller doing one.) He gets the ball on the flare after Martinez scrambles around a bit to avoid the pressure. 


The DB had him lined up for a big hit, except he jumps out of the way. 


And with the big blitz called, the rest of the secondary is in tight man coverage and Burkehead has no one between him and the endzone. 


So it was raining off and on during that game, which led to some amusing moments and a lot of slipping. 


Martinez's throwing motion is even uglier when he's falling down. 


Both sides were having trouble with it. 


And Miller turned his ankle as he slipped on a cut. 


Then Bauserman came in and promptly did this. 


At least on that previous picture he was under pressure.  On this one he's got no one to blame but himself. 


That ball is JUUUUUSSST a bit overthrown. 


Ok, maybe a bit more. But if you're wondering about the genesis of the the Bauserman Passing Chart, it was probably this play. 


  • Bo Pelini has anger issues. 



OSU Game Time Set at 12

OSU Game Time Set at 12

Submitted by hart20 on November 14th, 2011 at 2:44 PM

It looks like the OSU game is set to be played at noon, again. This is from looking at the schedule on Rivals. ESPN still hasn't updated their schedule yet. 

Personally, I hate noon games. They're all right once in a while, but not every weekend. I don't remember every having this many noon games in 1 season before.


I tried to search the site to see if this has been posted before but the search function seems to be broken and I can't access anything beyond the 1st page of MGoBoard. Is that only me or is anyone else experiencing that too? I figured that I'm on here often enough that I'd remember if this has been posted before and I don't remember it being posted, so I went ahead and posted it. Apologies if it's already been posted.


If we don't beat OSU, I quit. I don't know from what, but I just quit.

Ohio Verdict Update

Ohio Verdict Update

Submitted by SanFrancisco_W… on November 2nd, 2011 at 3:18 PM

While this may not deserve it's own thread, I thought it merited some mention as I have seen many people on the board talking about the OSU verdict and when it will come down.  Here's a snippet from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:

Ohio State spokesman Dan Wallenberg told The Plain Dealer Tuesday that the school is still finalizing its response to the employment issue that saw four Buckeyes suspended after Ohio State and the NCAA ruled they were overpaid by former booster Bobby DiGeronimo. Wallenberg said there are no new issues, but Ohio State hasn't completed its report on these violations, which were first revealed at a news conference on Oct. 3.

Once the school submits that response, it will then wait for word from the NCAA. Every indication is that the OSU administration still does not expect a post season ban to be part of any penalties, and OSU coach Luke Fickell said he had no update on any postseason problems. In the last 10 years, five major college football programs were given postseason bans of one or two years.


So Ohio hasn't even finished their report yet, thus making it take even longer and if I had to guess, the better they play the longer it will take them to submit this report.



UPDATE TSIO: Herron & Posey Out Indefinitely

UPDATE TSIO: Herron & Posey Out Indefinitely

Submitted by SanFrancisco_W… on October 3rd, 2011 at 11:34 AM

Well, it appears that Posey and Herron were taking other benefits than just tattoos.  Looks like they may have been receiving some money for summer jobs in Cleveland.  Read for yourself and let me know what you think:


Herron and Posey Out Indefinitely


EDIT: Lawyer for OSU has stated that the eligibility of one of the Tat 5 is now being called into question by the NCAA.  This being reported by 97.1 The Fan in Columbus.  They have not said if it's Adams, Posey, Herron, or Solomon Thomas.

*Mods Delete*

*Mods Delete*

Submitted by SanFrancisco_W… on August 10th, 2011 at 7:13 PM

There was really nothing extravegant on the show we didn't already know. I figured they were going to address Torg's statements.  Let's get this deleted and not give legs to a rumor when his own station won't bring it up in an interview with Forde...recruits don't need to hear this.

NCAA Informs Ohio State Of Ongoing Investigation

NCAA Informs Ohio State Of Ongoing Investigation

Submitted by SanFrancisco_W… on August 10th, 2011 at 4:08 PM

According to 97.1 The Fan in Columbus, the NCAA has informed Ohio State University that they will be continuing their investigation.  The report comes from the Common Man and the Torg show with its sources coming from former OSU football players.


More details to come once I find a print source.  I know we all love to see it, but they broke the news on the radio with promise of following up on it. 


EDIT: Here's the link

EDIT #2: Torg now saying he thinks PRYOR is talking in an effort to get him into the Supplemental Draft.  Granted this is heresay and high speculation, but it raises some interesting questions.  Mind you, Torg is the one who broke this story on air when I posted it....before it made it to ESPN.

EDIT #3: 97.1 NOW REPORTING THAT THE SIGNING OF MEMORABILIA DID NOT STOP AFTER OSU "PUT THE CABOSH ON IT!"  This is getting unbelievable!  Torg says booster involved is from Northwest Ohio. They are livid! Tune in and laugh your ass off.


Gordon Gee had this to say: